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Archive 2023 · ZEISS exits lens business

  
 
Chris_88
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p.5 #1 · ZEISS exits lens business


I have mixed feelings about this. The Loxia 21 is one of my favorite lenses, and possibly my favorite landscape lens. I also had the Loxia 85 at some point, which was another great lens, albeit from a spacing perspective, I prefer the CV 110.

Then again, I have to admit I never understood the blue badge fanboyism. Yes, Zeiss has an impressive history and they made many great lenses. I happen to like the micro contrast, rendition, flare resistance and sunstars of the Loxia lenses for landscape photography too.

And yet, many of their decisions in the past decades seemed off to me: Let's forget the ZX1 for a second.
1) As nice as the Otus line and the upgraded Milvus lenses are, they felt strangely out of place, arriving as mirrorless began to took off.
2) I understood why they were initially careful in their e-mount support, but they also missed a chance there, seeing how they couldn't meet demand when the Batis 25 and 85 had little to no competition.
3) Some people apparently don't have issues with their Batis 40, but the AF issues and the way they were addressed, was less than ideal, to say the least.
4) All in all, Zeiss' e-mount line-up was somewhat incomplete, and probably too little, too late: For instance, the 35 and 50 FL's were only covered by slightly tweaked m-mount designs (I know that 40mm is close to 35mm, but still).
5) Don't get me wrong, Zeiss has produced some of the finest optics for e-mount (the Loxia 21, 25, 85 and the Batis 135), but the frequent discounts made me wonder how well especially the Batis 135 or 40 sold. I don't have data to back this up, but my feeling is that the market of those willing to shell out substantial money for somewhat compact, moderately fast lenses was smaller than Zeiss might have anticipated. I wonder, whether they would have had more success with slightly bigger, but faster glass, say,a mirrorless Otus line, which had been in the rumors mill for a time.
Of course, with CV, Sigma, Tamron and Chinese makers having upped their game considerably during the past decade, Zeiss might have felt pressure from Sigma and Tamron on the Batis line, and from CV on the Loxia line. After all, you could make the case that Cosina managed to come out with a more complete line-up of e-mount lenses than Zeiss in a shorter period of time.



Jun 07, 2023 at 08:46 AM
zeitlos
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p.5 #2 · ZEISS exits lens business


I am considering whether I should take the chance and buy a Batis 85 again. I've had it before. I think the micro-contrast of the Batis lenses is really unique. I currently have the 40s 2.0. And that's just very, very good. With the Batis 85, the plus in contrast in portraits even bothered me a bit. I liked the Samyang 85 1.4 much better in terms of bokeh. Well, character is character. And that's worth a lot.

Also, the Batis lenses are pretty much a perfect match with the Sony cameras in terms of weight. The Batis 40 is really perfectly balanced with my A7III.



Jun 07, 2023 at 09:05 AM
zeitlos
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p.5 #3 · ZEISS exits lens business


Chris_88 wrote:
but the frequent discounts made me wonder how well especially the Batis 135 or 40 sold. I don't have data to back this up, but my feeling is that the market of those willing to shell out substantial money for somewhat compact, moderately fast lenses was smaller than Zeiss might have anticipated.


This is interesting because it probably depends on the markets. Here in Germany, for example, the Batis 40 f2 has been incredibly stable in price for so many years now.



Jun 07, 2023 at 09:12 AM
Robin Smith
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p.5 #4 · ZEISS exits lens business


My guess is Zeiss struggled to sell many of their lines. ZF and ZE probably just about did OK. Otus I doubt sold many (but they probably expected that) and Milvus have probably been a damp squib. Sony E mount lenses did well to start, but are now replaced by Sony's own, Sigma, and Tamron. Canon don't want them, neither do Panasonic and Leica. The Voigtlander and the Chinese have stepped into the space for "artisanal" lenses at a quarter to half the price. Zeiss have many other fish to fry, so I am not all that surprised. When they had captive markets (Hasselblad, Contax, Sony early days) things were good, but German costs are high so they will continue with other, better, sources of income. I suspect that they could restart some lens lines in the future if they see an opening.


Jun 07, 2023 at 09:15 AM
tsdevine
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p.5 #5 · ZEISS exits lens business


Here's Amazon US price history..

Batis 135mm
https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B06Y2YV1N5

Batis 40mm
https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B07J2644H2

FWIW....kind of interesting.

zeitlos wrote:
This is interesting because it probably depends on the markets. Here in Germany, for example, the Batis 40 f2 has been incredibly stable in price for so many years now.



Jun 07, 2023 at 09:16 AM
FMTopFan
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p.5 #6 · ZEISS exits lens business


If this news is true, once remaining stock has depleted, will we see a huge price rebound in the used market due to limited supply?

I should probably hang on to all my Zeiss lenses for now.



Jun 07, 2023 at 09:26 AM
MARKFER
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p.5 #7 · ZEISS exits lens business


I need a hood for a 25 and a 85 Loxia. I swapped them out for something a bit less cumbersome and misplaced them. Probably should look to buy now. They are so expensive though and in truth I did not like them but they could become scarce.


Jun 07, 2023 at 09:43 AM
chiron
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p.5 #8 · ZEISS exits lens business


I don't see any evidence that this claim about Zeiss is more than just an internet rumor. For example, DPreview's news section has nothing about this despite being well-updated with full reports on very recent photo news like Apple's new Vision Pro, new M2-powered Macs, the Google Pixel 7a phone, and other developments.


Jun 07, 2023 at 09:48 AM
Robin Smith
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p.5 #9 · ZEISS exits lens business


I am surprised myself that/if Zeiss really said they were categorically leaving the market. They are lens makers: if someone offers them a deal they like they will produce a lens for them, unless that is they are no longer doing even that, which does seem surprising.


Jun 07, 2023 at 01:57 PM
wordfool
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p.5 #10 · ZEISS exits lens business


ramesesthe2nd wrote:
Zeiss dug its own grave by producing objectively inferior and overpriced lenses, but sad to see them go.

If your products are not selling well, you either change your approach or exit the market. It's business 101.


Modern Zeiss lenses are pretty universally respected. Sure, there were a few duds along the way, but that's the case with every lens manufacturer.

I think the downfall was that other lens manufacturers, helped by the advances in lens design and manufacturing tech, upped their game and their ranges, gradually pushing Zeiss out of the market. Just look at the sheer number of excellent lenses released by Sony, Sigma, Samyang et al in the past few years that compete at every Batis focal length.



Jun 07, 2023 at 02:22 PM
darrellc
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p.5 #11 · ZEISS exits lens business


SAR just posted an official response by Zeiss channeled via Greg Watermann, a Zeiss Ambassador.

To me that statement says we’ll sell what we’ve got, no new investment in photo lenses, zeiss future in consumer imaging is mobile devices so that’s where we’re investing.



Jun 07, 2023 at 03:07 PM
johnvanr
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p.5 #12 · ZEISS exits lens business


FMTopFan wrote:
If this news is true, once remaining stock has depleted, will we see a huge price rebound in the used market due to limited supply?

I should probably hang on to all my Zeiss lenses for now.


I probably keep my EF mount 21mm and 135mm for now, but continue with my plans to sell a few M mount lenses.

These things are hard to predict, though. I could have made a lot if I had kept my Contax G and 645 gear, but nothing on the N1 kit I had. I know the N1 never really became popular, but it was a great camera with great lenses.



Jun 07, 2023 at 03:19 PM
genjy
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p.5 #13 · ZEISS exits lens business


darrellc wrote:
SAR just posted an official response by Zeiss channeled via Greg Watermann, a Zeiss Ambassador.

To me that statement says we’ll sell what we’ve got, no new investment in photo lenses, zeiss future in consumer imaging is mobile devices so that’s where we’re investing.


That's a pretty good decision. Zeiss can only sell so many ILC lenses that photographers keep forever, but people upgrade their phones like every 2 to 4 years.


Edited on Jun 07, 2023 at 03:22 PM · View previous versions



Jun 07, 2023 at 03:22 PM
Cliff L.
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p.5 #14 · ZEISS exits lens business


chiron wrote:
I don't see any evidence that this claim about Zeiss is more than just an internet rumor.


Maybe Zeiss is staying in the lens business, and it's just a case of their distributors dropping them...



Jun 07, 2023 at 03:22 PM
sandycrane
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p.5 #15 · ZEISS exits lens business


Zeiss makes a lot of money with their industrial divisions and they probably feel that dealing with retail is just a pain in the butt.


Jun 07, 2023 at 03:28 PM
lensfan
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p.5 #16 · ZEISS exits lens business


darrellc wrote:
SAR just posted an official response by Zeiss channeled via Greg Watermann, a Zeiss Ambassador.

To me that statement says we’ll sell what we’ve got, no new investment in photo lenses, zeiss future in consumer imaging is mobile devices so that’s where we’re investing.


All it took is a post on FM forum. Good job guys! Lets shape the camera world the way we want!



Jun 07, 2023 at 03:30 PM
lensfan
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p.5 #17 · ZEISS exits lens business


molson wrote:
Maybe Zeiss is staying in the lens business, and it's just a case of their distributors dropping them...


The may feel they are in glass business. But end customers may feel like they are in lens business.



Jun 07, 2023 at 03:33 PM
GMPhotography
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p.5 #18 · ZEISS exits lens business


They build far more than lenses and this is not really that unusual but getting rid of lens production is most likely helping them in other areas where this plenty of business and revenue. Ive been in photography business for 50 years or more. I have seen a lot of this. Im honestly not surprised , it is sad though


Jun 07, 2023 at 03:44 PM
Dave Sanders
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p.5 #19 · ZEISS exits lens business


GMPhotography wrote:
They build far more than lenses and this is not really that unusual but getting rid of lens production is most likely helping them in other areas where this plenty of business and revenue. Ive been in photography business for 50 years or more. I have seen a lot of this. Im honestly not surprised , it is sad though


Yes...Zeiss doesn't do any of the photo lens production anymore, to my knowledge, so it would be design, development and quality assurance. They may feel those development resources are better spent on the more lucrative bits of their business, as I'm sure top notch engineers are at a premium, no matter the business.



Jun 07, 2023 at 03:47 PM
LBJ2
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p.5 #20 · ZEISS exits lens business


As posted by SAR today:

"Zeiss photographer Greg Watermann shared to me the official answer he got from Zeiss about the rumor of their photo market withdrawal:

ZEISS has not withdrawn from the photo lens market.

A simple look at https://www.zeiss.com/consumer-products/int/photography.html or amazon.com shows that we are still promoting and selling our photo lenses.
But we have to face the facts. In the first months of the pandemic, the global market declined significantly and irreversibly. And companies have to adapt.
And, of course, we are bringing our unique expertise to mobile imaging. Because it is also clear that consumers, as well as ambitious and professional photographers, increasingly prefer their smartphones for all-day photography.
Full disclosure by Greg Watermann:

Zeiss recently renewed my Lens Ambassador status and assured me of years of continued inventory, spare parts, repair and tech support, and customer service. They’re only responding to where the photography market is Already heading. I’ve been using Zeiss lenses for 40 years; they’re not going anywhere."

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/official-statement-from-zeiss-not-withdrawn-from-the-photo-lens-market-but-we-have-to-face-the-facts/#disqus_thread



Jun 07, 2023 at 04:26 PM
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