p.27 #1 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
tctmp wrote:
So do you want me to respond in Nikon forum why ilkka_nissila's post is void of any logic and just stupid cheap shots? But on the other hand you guys want to limit the Nikon forum to yourselves. See the irony?
BTW, I don't object to bs kite's posts here in Sony forum. I only pointed out the 200-600 issue because it showed he's misinformed on this subject, and thus impacts on the implied validity of his assessments. Nothing more.
I don’t care who posts where. But the personal insults do not really exist outside the Sony forum; that’s all I said in my previous comment. I think the insults derail conversations and degrade the overall experience of visiting FM. It also seems to me that the insults just beget more insults and have caused a hardening and crassness of conversations with Sony users.
I’ve come to FM for years. The tenor of conversations has changed, not in the Nikon and Canon fora, but in the Sony forum. Take that for what you will. My sense is that there are several users who believe it betrays an illogicality and a lack of intelligence to shoot something besides Sony, which is only reinforced when someone slightly misquotes a technical aspect of the relevant systems. There’s a never ending game of gotcha that goes on in the Sony forum that hijacks otherwise interesting conversations and leads to a lot of the insults. It’s childish conduct that should be beneath adults.
Last, I’ll just note that it’s quite a response to my critique of the crass nature of the Sony forum to ask whether you should come to another forum to call another user, who obviously is not dumb, stupid.
p.27 #3 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Steve Spencer wrote:
I think that "claim" was just a simple insertion of the wrong company. The lens is obviously made by Sony and is not even a Sony/Zeiss lens. I assume he meant to say Sony and just put in Zeiss by mistake.
Uhm, ok, but I'm not sure. Because this was also in the same post by bs kite.
"Nikon has the advantage of making their own glass and designing/building their own lenses".
p.27 #4 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
groob wrote:
I don’t care who posts where. But the personal insults do not really exist outside the Sony forum; that’s all I said in my previous comment. I think the insults derail conversations and degrade the overall experience of visiting FM. It also seems to me that the insults just beget more insults and have caused a hardening and crassness of conversations with Sony users.
I think you are only oblivious to the ones posted in Nikon forum because that's your base. I certainly see way more there by a larger percentage of Nikon users. And a lot of times, the best response is just responding in kind. Btw, "stupid" is an objective word. You can suggest another word to use that carries the same meaning.
p.27 #5 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
groob wrote:
You’ve got to be kidding me. You’ve met osv and Duncan, right?
They are by no means the worst offenders...and the "poisonous" aspect is certainly not restricted to the Sony forum... the Nikon forum is probably the worst.
p.27 #6 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
molson wrote:
They are by no means the worst offenders...and the "poisonous" aspect is certainly not restricted to the Sony forum... the Nikon forum is probably the worst.
You’re going to have to show your work on all of those fronts.
May 22, 2023 at 02:34 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.27 #7 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
tctmp wrote:
Uhm, ok, but I'm not sure. Because this was also in the same post by bs kite.
"Nikon has the advantage of making their own glass and designing/building their own lenses".
I think what bs kite is referring to is that Nikon makes it own PF glass and designs their PF lenses around the glass they make. Sony obviously does not make PF or DO glass (yet anyway) as they don't have any PF/DO lenses. Being able to make PF lens elements and therefore PF lenses is an advantage for Nikon.
p.27 #8 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
RoamingScott wrote:
Thank goodness Nikon copied old, good Canon and not "F/11 and be there" Canon
Only because they had to wait so long for the patents to expire on the fresnel lens elements...
May 22, 2023 at 02:37 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.27 #9 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
tctmp wrote:
I think you are only oblivious to the ones posted in Nikon forum because that's your base. I certainly see way more there by a larger percentage of Nikon users. And a lot of times, the best response is just responding in kind. Btw, "stupid" is an objective word. You can suggest another word to use that carries the same meaning.
Stupid is an objective word? I think stupid is almost always a subjective judgement. The key point is whether the word stupid is directed toward an argument (this isn't a personal attack as pretty much everyone has made at least a few stupid arguments) or whether it is directed toward a person--saying a person is stupid is obviously a personal attack and shouldn't happen on this forum.
May 22, 2023 at 02:40 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.27 #10 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
groob wrote:
I don’t care who posts where.
wrong, you launch personal attacks on everyone who doesn't shoot nikon, lol
you do it because you aren't technically competent enough to discuss milc gear like a grown adult.
groob wrote:
But the personal insults do not really exist outside the Sony forum
wrong again, these comments for instance were all posted on the nikon forum in just the last few days:
ArizonaImage wrote: Clearly you're nothing but a troll, so grab your barbie polaroid and go play house.
Alistair1 wrote: And to the OP, you sir are establishing yourself on this board as quite the troll.
lukemeup wrote: Nope - thread derailed by a Sony troll
p.27 #12 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
I have to wonder if Fred is embarrassed and disappointed as he watches his once great forum devolve into senseless inanity by trolls who would do well to log off and touch some grass. The fact that no one gets banned after years of bad behavior continues to shock me.
p.27 #13 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Hi folks
That statement I made about Zeiss making Sony lenses was incorrect because all I did was type ("google" as a verb) in the address box and looked *only* at the top statement or site. If you do the same you will see something like the following........
Carl Zeiss lenses for Sony have a few different E-Mount series, some of which were released in the last few years. Zeiss lenses for Sony include the Zeiss Loxia series, which are all manual focus only.Jan 15, 2023
The Best Carl Zeiss Lenses in 2020 [for Sony, Canon, Nikon ...
That was not enough. If I had scrolled down, I would have seen more about Sony lenses.
Over at the Nikon forum you will not find a derogatory comment against Sony by me at any time... anywhere. I just do not do that. These two systems are outstanding and I suppose Canon is too..... but I know nothing about Canon. Yesterday I entered the brand war and it was a mistake. It's a waste of energy and someone always feels insulted or is insulted. So I had to get out.
The most important component of what I do (loons, monarchs and the like) is not the equipment. It is to continue learning all I can of the life history and behavioral characteristics of the subjects I love.
When I see arguing in the Nikon I do not let them know I am following the thread and I joke vicariously: "Be right back... got to get some popcorn."
p.27 #15 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
Steve Spencer wrote:
Stupid is an objective word? I think stupid is almost always a subjective judgement. The key point is whether the word stupid is directed toward an argument (this isn't a personal attack as pretty much everyone has made at least a few stupid arguments) or whether it is directed toward a person--saying a person is stupid is obviously a personal attack and shouldn't happen on this forum.
I use "stupid" to describe things that shouldn't be wrong, but is wrong.
Here is my original phrase, "stupid cheap shots", is it against people or not?
Here is a post in Nikon forum. Is this stupid divorce "logic" against people or not?
p.27 #17 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
RoamingScott wrote:
I have to wonder if Fred is embarrassed and disappointed as he watches his once great forum devolve into senseless inanity by trolls who would do well to log off and touch some grass. The fact that no one gets banned after years of bad behavior continues to shock me.
I've noticed this as well in particular since it was announced Dpreview was on it's way out. Seems the sludge got re routed over here.
May 22, 2023 at 03:44 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.27 #18 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
dcisive wrote:
I've noticed this as well in particular since it was announced Dpreview was on it's way out. Seems the sludge got re routed over here.
are you referring to your own "ProDude" account on dpr, where for example you started this absurd thread and then refused to admit that you were wrong, lol:
p.27 #19 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
molson wrote:
No, you just threaten to run crying to Fred when someone disagrees with you.
I was not crying. I was angry at the time.
But I do not think it was about Sony.
As I recall, wasn't that thread somewhat off the OP's subject and didn't you enter that thread with your first comment telling us that we needed to stay on point? Is that the incident you refer to?
Threads get off point and then go back to the OP's subject.
I think the mistake I made there was telling you that you were wrong. I should not have said that even though I did not agree.
I should not have gotten emotional.
And subsequent to that I took every chance to post a "like" to all of or your "outstanding" landscape images.
And I will keep recognizing your outstanding images Molson.
May 22, 2023 at 04:02 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.27 #20 · The new Nikon Z8 vs the Sony A7RV and potential A9III
tctmp wrote:
I use "stupid" to describe things that shouldn't be wrong, but is wrong.
Here is my original phrase, "stupid cheap shots", is it against people or not?
Here is a post in Nikon forum. Is this stupid divorce "logic" against people or not?
Well that is a really unusual definition of stupid and moralizes (saying shouldn't be wrong) being wrong in a way that is likely unhelpful. Nevertheless, "stupid cheap shots," is obviously about the "cheap shots," and not about the people involved. You are calling what you call "cheap shots," stupid and not calling people stupid, so it is not a personal attack.
Similarly, if you responded to the post you linked by saying it was "stupid divorce logic," then that too is not against people but rather what was said in the post.
I find such arguments to be rather poor arguments on your part, but they aren't personal attacks as you described them in this post. It is easy to determine if stupid is used about a person or not. Stupid is an adjective that describes a noun. Just note what noun it describes and if that noun is a person then it is a personal attack. If the noun isn't a person it might be a poor argument on your part, but it isn't a personal attack.
