A post where the strengths and weaknesses of a camera system are acknowledged without brand defensiveness. A rational discussion on how a system with 3rd place performance in one area can still be a good choice in a system when viewed as an entire package. The implication of course is that another person could appropriately order the choices differently in the system to buy rankings. A great basis for enjoyable discussions on camera forums.
I'm confused because his post is just a copy and paste (without using the quote function) of my post #7 on page 1.
I'm not sure if he was meaning to quote me and add to that or he just agrees so copied it.
cm666 wrote:
Z8 seems to be the better camera in most ways for stills, bird and wildlife shooting.
The biggest advantage is the stacked 45MP sensor which does give a much better shooting experience for shooting fast/erratic BIF. (based on my ownership of Z9 and R5).
Where I feel the R5 still has the advantage is button layout, button customization and AF prowess (would be even better if it got the R3,R7,R8,R6II updated modes). I still rank Z9/Z8 AF in 3rd place when comparing CaNikSon.
But If I had to choose, starting from scratch, I'd choose Z8 based on price, size, and mostly the stacked sensor. AF is still amazingly good even though I rank it 3rd. And of course the Nikon lenses rank 1st IMO for birds/wildlife.
My AF ranking: A7RV>A1>A9II>R3>R5>Z8/Z9
My camera I would buy for BIF: A1>Z8>Z9>A9II>R3>R5>A7RV ...Show more →
Is this just a copy and paste of my post #7 on page 1?
Did you mean to add to this on top of what I posted?
3catsinky wrote:
where does the Z8/9 rank compared to the original stacked A9? i am highly considering a switch after shooting with Sony since the A7r2 days. I just feel like Nikon currently offers everything I want in a body, whereas I have four sony cameras to get done what I need/want.
When you say rank, what features do you value most? Are we talking AF or other?
Briefly I'd say Z8/Z9 advantages are way more MP than A9 and bird eye detect. Overall AF is a bit hard to compare. I still prefer the types of AF modes the Sony cameras have including the A9 over the ones the Nikon has. But Nikon custom sized Wide Areas are a bonus over Sony. Still the way Sony integrates real-time tracking into their standard lists of modes allowing you to shoot them one way or the other is powerful. Sony Wide non-tracking even on an old A9 is still IMO better than Nikon Auto Area or 3D if you want to shoot fast, erratic birds. But Nikon's Wide Area (zone type mode) with customizable sizes is very effective and the "handoff" method (as clunky as it is) can be used with Auto or 3D to help track over the entire frame after acquiring with a Wide Area.
Other things are a lot more modern on the Z8/9 over the A9. Video features, stacking features. Z8/Z9 are nicer bodies in the hand although I still prefer the amount of buttons and customization of those buttons on an A9.
If you are needing 4 Sony bodies to do everything, wouldn't an A1 cover all the basis or at least consolidate 2-3 of them?
3catsinky wrote:
where does the Z8/9 rank compared to the original stacked A9? i am highly considering a switch after shooting with Sony since the A7r2 days. I just feel like Nikon currently offers everything I want in a body, whereas I have four sony cameras to get done what I need/want.
The Z8/9 cameras are at least two generations ahead of the original a9, so bests in it just about every category possible. The A9 was released in 2017. That is more than 6 years ago. A very long time in the fast progressing mirrorless camera World.
Looking at the kit from your profile, it seems to be made up of mostly dated cameras and lenses. You probably collected them as the mirrorless market iterated quickly over the last 7 or 8 years.
If you want to update your kit now would be a great time to do it. If you are planning on updating your lenses as well, the cost penalties are minimal if switching brands. Just make sure you consider the entire costs, not just the camera bodies.
The Sony A1 can do everything in one camera that your others do combined. There are deals to be had in the A1 both new and used, so the cost difference is not as much as it seems, or could even be less used. Don't forget that these cameras are shot shutterless these days, so used is a better choice than it was in DSLR days. Going this route means you can use your old lenses and sell them over time as you blend in the latest and greatest.
The Nikon Z8/9 cameras will also do everything in one that your old set of cameras do. You can buy a new Z8 for what you will likely pay for a used A1. But you will need to replace your entire lens collection right away. There will be those that say adapting can be done, but the Sony to Nikon adapters do not have the best performance, or reliability record. I would counsel against considering that as a viable option.
Nikon currently leads in long prime lenses. But your current lens kit has nothing in long focal length lenses, zooms or primes. This indicates to me that you don't shoot the subjects that require them. If that is true, you need to consider the very big lead that the Sony E-Mount has in lenses OEM and third party. Even with the low price of a Z8, a new Sony system may be much less in total cost because of this.
I agree that Nikon has set a new and disruptive price point for high quality stacked sensor cameras. I expect that the industry will respond shortly. It must. IT could also prove to be a wise decision at this time to wait and watch a for a bit.
Rudy Pohl wrote:
I really appreciate this post from someone who owns and has used both. Please come back again and do another hands-on comparison when you've logged more time on the Z8. Thanks.
Cheers,
Rudy
Hey Rudy ! I remember your name from way back in my DPReview days. I didn't know you were on this site. I always admired your work and the level of sanity you brought to those forums
Gary
sum1sgrampa wrote:
Hey Rudy ! I remember your name from way back in my DPReview days. I didn't know you were on this site. I always admired your work and the level of sanity you brought to those forums
Gary
Hi Gary, wow talk about a blast from the the past. Thanks for saying "Hi" and touching base. I'm here at FM because of the likely demise of DP Review. I've been part of the Canon R forum at DP Review since last October when I bought an R5. I was a Nikon shooter since 1978 but I just got tired of waiting for Nikon to produce the kind of mirrorless camera I wanted for doing wildlife videos which I've been doing for about 80-90% of my outings. I felt the Z9 was just too big and too expensive for me and the R5 seemed perfect especially since I got $2300 off the package. I jumped on it.
Now I'm fairly certain that had I waited and stayed with Nikon for another 7 months I would very likely have bought a Z8. Oh well, life is full of twists and turns, eh? I was doing my videos with the D500 without AF tracking for over a year and got increasingly frustrated waiting for the Z6(ii) to get decent AF tracking. I'm hoping Canon will now come through with some firmware to bring the R5 AF system up to the level of the R6II and R7. Fingers crossed.
Personally I am skeptical that Canon will update firmware on the R5 but since I own one, I hope you are right. What I am really hoping is that the R5ii will have a stacked sensor so it can fully compete for best all around camera in the 45mp prosumer market. The R5 is still a great camera, but from my limited experience with the Z8, the faster sensor lets you do some things with performance that are not so easy using 'old' sensor tech..unless Canon has some magical software engineers...
arbitrage wrote:
Is this just a copy and paste of my post #7 on page 1?
Did you mean to add to this on top of what I posted?
You should report him (I am). It is likely a bot. I just looked through his post history and aside from starting a thread about firmware which may be a copy also, the account just posts copies of other people’s posts.
Rudy Pohl wrote:
Hi Gary, wow talk about a blast from the the past. Thanks for saying "Hi" and touching base. I'm here at FM because of the likely demise of DP Review. I've been part of the Canon R forum at DP Review since last October when I bought an R5. I was a Nikon shooter since 1978 but I just got tired of waiting for Nikon to produce the kind of mirrorless camera I wanted for doing wildlife videos which I've been doing for about 80-90% of my outings. I felt the Z9 was just too big and too expensive for me and the R5 seemed perfect especially since I got $2300 off the package. I jumped on it.
Now I'm fairly certain that had I waited and stayed with Nikon for another 7 months I would very likely have bought a Z8. Oh well, life is full of twists and turns, eh? I was doing my videos with the D500 without AF tracking for over a year and got increasingly frustrated waiting for the Z6(ii) to get decent AF tracking. I'm hoping Canon will now come through with some firmware to bring the R5 AF system up to the level of the R6II and R7. Fingers crossed.
Cheers,
Rudy
...Show more →
Hi Rudy. Good to hear from you. Thanks for reaching out. I understand completely. I shot my D500 for what seems like forever and came very, very close to jumping ship because I also was tired of waiting. The A1 was always out of reach for me but I came really close to jumping to an A7Riv and the 200-600 a number of times but heard so much chatter about problems with that combo, valid or not, it scared me off. So three months ago I bit the bullet on the Z9. And true to form, the Z8 was released shortly thereafter No regrets though, I love the Z9, as I'm sure I'd love the 8, but I guess I'm one of the few who prefer the larger bodies. It's pretty hard to make a bad choice at this level of gear these days. All personal preference. Take care !
Jesse Evans wrote:
You should report him (I am). It is likely a bot. I just looked through his post history and aside from starting a thread about firmware which may be a copy also, the account just posts copies of other people’s posts.
Yep, something doesn't look quite right with this guy. He/she/it posted this just the other day nearly 3 years after the release of the R5.
Looks like they hacked someones account that began back in 2008.
cm666 wrote:
Since the R5 is beginning to ship, please post your images here, and share your thoughts
I know a lot of folks would like to know if there is no black out shooting burst's, be sure to mention the card used, and I am sure a host of other things about the R5
Steve Spencer wrote:
While we are being exact let's be clear the A1 and Z9 sensors are the same size. The A1 sensor is not bigger it has smaller pixels that are packed tighter on the same size sensor. Also the difference between 45 and 50 MP in resolution is quite small. When you look at the actual size of the output that becomes even more obvious. The A1 produces full sized images that are 8640 X 5760 pixels. The Z9 full size images that are 8256 X 5204 pixels. Now when we talk about the resolution of the sensor we usually talk about linear resolution which is the change in resolution on just one side, in this case 8640 vs 8256 (or 5760 vs 5204) and that means the increase in linear resolution for the A1 is just 4.6% if you do the math.
I would say that the difference in resolution between the Sony A1 and the Nikon Z9 is also a very small difference. So, for both sensor scan speed where the Z9 has a very small advantage and for resolution where the A1 has a very small advantage there is actually little difference between the cameras. Of course some people might prefer either small advantage, but IMO everyone should keep in mind that the differences here for both sensor scan speed and resolution are small and in almost all instances won't make a practical difference....Show more →
Thanks, yes in this context 'bigger' was referring to the amount of data (pixels) being read not physical size of the sensor.
1bwana1 wrote:
The Z8/9 cameras are at least two generations ahead of the original a9, so bests in it just about every category possible. The A9 was released in 2017. That is more than 6 years ago. A very long time in the fast progressing mirrorless camera World.
Looking at the kit from your profile, it seems to be made up of mostly dated cameras and lenses. You probably collected them as the mirrorless market iterated quickly over the last 7 or 8 years.
If you want to update your kit now would be a great time to do it. If you are planning on updating your lenses as well, the cost penalties are minimal if switching brands. Just make sure you consider the entire costs, not just the camera bodies.
The Sony A1 can do everything in one camera that your others do combined. There are deals to be had in the A1 both new and used, so the cost difference is not as much as it seems, or could even be less used. Don't forget that these cameras are shot shutterless these days, so used is a better choice than it was in DSLR days. Going this route means you can use your old lenses and sell them over time as you blend in the latest and greatest.
The Nikon Z8/9 cameras will also do everything in one that your old set of cameras do. You can buy a new Z8 for what you will likely pay for a used A1. But you will need to replace your entire lens collection right away. There will be those that say adapting can be done, but the Sony to Nikon adapters do not have the best performance, or reliability record. I would counsel against considering that as a viable option.
Nikon currently leads in long prime lenses. But your current lens kit has nothing in long focal length lenses, zooms or primes. This indicates to me that you don't shoot the subjects that require them. If that is true, you need to consider the very big lead that the Sony E-Mount has in lenses OEM and third party. Even with the low price of a Z8, a new Sony system may be much less in total cost because of this.
I agree that Nikon has set a new and disruptive price point for high quality stacked sensor cameras. I expect that the industry will respond shortly. It must. IT could also prove to be a wise decision at this time to wait and watch a for a bit....Show more →
Is it poor form to ask for a link to some of these A1 deals? One of my bodies needs to be replaced.
It's frustrating when people keep bringing up the original A9 vs newer cameras. Even as backups. I see this all the time on the Sony Forums on Facebook.
The Z8/9 cameras are at least two generations ahead of the original a9, so bests in it just about every category possible. The A9 was released in 2017. That is more than 6 years ago. A very long time in the fast progressing mirrorless camera World.
Seriously? I don't know about you, but for me to switch back to Nikon at this point? It would cost me, just by trading in my Sony gear near $6,000 to upgrade to Nikon Z8 and lenses, etc. I'm retired. On SS Disability. With a small pension. And a family member that has serious health issues. $6K right now goes a long way to help pay medical bills.
If you want to update your kit now would be a great time to do it. If you are planning on updating your lenses as well, the cost penalties are minimal if switching brands. Just make sure you consider the entire costs, not just the camera bodies.
The least expensive Sony A1 on B & H is somewhere around $5,600. And it's rated an 8 on the wear and tear scale.
The Nikon Z8/9 cameras will also do everything in one that your old set of cameras do. You can buy a new Z8 for what you will likely pay for a used A1. But you will need to replace your entire lens collection right away. There will be those that say adapting can be done, but the Sony to Nikon adapters do not have the best performance, or reliability record. I would counsel against considering that as a viable option.
AZHeaven wrote:
The least expensive Sony A1 on B & H is somewhere around $5,600. And it's rated an 8 on the wear and tear scale.
I know where there are two new A1s available for that price right now. So it is possible to buy at that price. You will never see such prices advertised due to MAP contracts. You need to have a relationship with a dealer.
