molson wrote:
I thought the Z9's EVF was remarkably good. If Nikon could apply the same tech to a higher resolution EVF panel (like all of their competitors use), it would be class-leading.
It is the best of the best for following a fast subject while actively shooting. It punches above it's resolution specification for clarity (likely due to good glass in front of it). But it is the worst for accurately determining correct exposure. This is probably the #1 problem I had with Z9 both times I owned it. I ended up cranking the brightness to +6 or +7 to get an accurate WYSIWYG for the whites. The histogram is next to useless for whites and the way it displays the contrast is just not good at normal or Auto settings.
arbitrage wrote:
It is the best of the best for following a fast subject while actively shooting. It punches above it's resolution specification for clarity (likely due to good glass in front of it). But it is the worst for accurately determining correct exposure. This is probably the #1 problem I had with Z9 both times I owned it. I ended up cranking the brightness to +6 or +7 to get an accurate WYSIWYG for the whites. The histogram is next to useless for whites and the way it displays the contrast is just not good at normal or Auto settings.
Zebras would be nice - I wonder why Nikon doesn't offer that option (Fuji has the same problem, too.)
arbitrage wrote:
Z8 seems to be the better camera in most ways for stills, bird and wildlife shooting.
The biggest advantage is the stacked 45MP sensor which does give a much better shooting experience for shooting fast/erratic BIF. (based on my ownership of Z9 and R5).
Where I feel the R5 still has the advantage is button layout, button customization and AF prowess (would be even better if it got the R3,R7,R8,R6II updated modes). I still rank Z9/Z8 AF in 3rd place when comparing CaNikSon.
But If I had to choose, starting from scratch, I'd choose Z8 based on price, size, and mostly the stacked sensor. AF is still amazingly good even though I rank it 3rd. And of course the Nikon lenses rank 1st IMO for birds/wildlife.
My AF ranking: A7RV>A1>A9II>R3>R5>Z8/Z9
My camera I would buy for BIF: A1>Z8>Z9>A9II>R3>R5>A7RV...Show more →
A7RV ranks last for BIF because of frame rate + lack of stacked sensor? Which would you buy if you weren't doing a lot of BIF?
Considering that the Z8 is what people expected of the Canon R1, I’d say the Z8 is clearly better than the R5.
In my opinion, the real problem for Canon users like myself is that I don’t think Canon is likely to ever sell a camera like the Z8 at anywhere near the price.
Considering the Z8 is $2,000 cheaper than the 24MP Canon R3, I can’t imagine Canon matching this camera any time soon. And if they do, it will likely be at least $6,000.
The two weak points for the Z8 are the weight and the battery life. Seeing a CIPA rating even lower than the Canon R5 is very surprising.
Jesse Evans wrote:
Considering that the Z8 is what people expected of the Canon R1, I’d say the Z8 is clearly better than the R5.
In my opinion, the real problem for Canon users like myself is that I don’t think Canon is likely to ever sell a camera like the Z8 at anywhere near the price.
Considering the Z8 is $2,000 cheaper than the 24MP Canon R3, I can’t imagine Canon matching this camera any time soon. And if they do, it will likely be at least $6,000.
The two weak points for the Z8 are the weight and the battery life. Seeing a CIPA rating even lower than the Canon R5 is very surprising. ...Show more →
Agreed, but an even larger issue for me is that Canon seems to have no interest in making even quasi-affordable telephotos. Your choice is to buy a 100-500mm, which is too slow for me, or a 600mm f/4. When you combine that with our shared intuition that Canon will not release a stacked sensor body with these specs, and in this price range, they leave their price-sensitive customers in a tough spot.
gdanmitchell wrote:
Both Canon and Nikon make excellent cameras. If you prefer one brand over the other and know what features you are looking for, get either one and start making photographs.
The secret that most don't want to mention is that the brand you choose almost never makes a difference to your photography. Of all the questions you'll face in photography, "Which brand?" is the least important.
Unfortunately, posting a "brand X or brand Y" question in any brand's forum almost always leads to brand wars and does little to clarify the decision.
Yep, an under-discussed point is that cameras haven’t been holding back 99.9% of photographers since the DSLR days, and functionality across all brands has only increased with mirrorless. The decision points for me are price and lenses. Nikon’s telephoto offerings are unrivaled.
AmbientMike wrote:
I don't know why you started a brand war thread, can't see it, and then seem to not want one. And then try to act like I'm the problem, for pointing out the obvious.
So, any comparison to you is a brand war? Honda vs Toyota? Nespresso vs Keurig? Really now?
RoamingScott wrote:
I always figured the R1 would be the 5DSR replacement, around 80mp. Why wouldn't the R5ii not be their Z8/Z9 competition?
The 1 series has typically been their flagship sports, wildlife, etc model. Additionally, when they launched the R3 Canon specifically stated the R3 is not their flagship, and the flagship was yet to come. The R5 is more likely to have an R5s with 80+ MP.
Whatever tho, if Canon were to release an R5 II with a stacked sensor, that would be great. I don’t see it happening. They’ve boxed themselves in by launching a $6,000 24mp R3. I have been wrong before, but it certainly doesn’t feel like that will be the case this time.
gdanmitchell wrote:
Both Canon and Nikon make excellent cameras. If you prefer one brand over the other and know what features you are looking for, get either one and start making photographs.
The secret that most don't want to mention is that the brand you choose almost never makes a difference to your photography. Of all the questions you'll face in photography, "Which brand?" is the least important.
Unfortunately, posting a "brand X or brand Y" question in any brand's forum almost always leads to brand wars and does little to clarify the decision.
I know they both make excellent cameras. If we can just look at the specs (and later the reviews) with an open mind, sharing that info actually should help. That's why comparisons exist, you know.
And, to be clear, I'm really just curious. I shoot mostly Olympus and Leica, but have Canon as well. No way I'm switching to Nikon now after having bought Canon RF lenses.
EB-1 wrote:
The lens mounts are different so Nikon is rather useless for Canon users and Canon is rather useless for Nikon users. Are you planning "real world" tests of the cameras using a common third party lens?
The Z8 is mainly just a smaller Z9, so the comparison is not like the R3 vs. R5.
If one is starting from scratch than Nikon is looking good for the flying BIFers that are too weak to use a Z9, but S*ny still is the only one with high-resolution for the vast majority of non-action subjects. Many of us (nikon mount users) were really hoping for the 61MP sensor so the Z8 is a big disappointment. Maybe it is a little better than a Z9, but then one would already have purchased a Z9. If Canon produces an 80MP body then what are you going to do with the 45MP Nikons?
I'm getting too old to carry around Canon, Nikon, AND S*ny products. Somehow I was hoping that Nikon could replace S*ny and Canon at one time, but it's looking doubtful. The low pixel count of 4/3 does nothing for me, but maybe it will as the body deteriorates, which won't be too long. Many of the users I notice converting from FX to 4/3 are in the late 60s or 70s.
I'm just curious how these cameras compare. Some are reading more than I said into my post.
Lenses are a whole other story and another important consideration of why one would choose one brand over another, based on what kind of shooting one does.
The rumored Canon R1 (I think it's been 5ish years now) would be a 1-series style flagship body with a high MP stacked sensor to compete with the Z9/A1 and an eye-watering price tag (based on the R3 price). They have always stayed true to their naming conventions. I'm actually quite surprised Canon has not come out with a direct competitor to the Z9/A1 yet, especially given their general company size and ability to pump out camera bodies for every imaginable segment (always one of their strong points). My guess would be they aren't yet able to manufacture a high MP stacked sensor they are happy with as they, they already have the rest of the tech they need.
Nikon is literally Kryptonite for Fro. I follow enough talented wildlife Nikon ambassadors to the point where Fro's opinion means squat. I don't care if people do think they're shills, they're talented photographers. AZHeaven wrote:
I just watched the Fros video on the Z8. Stacked sensor or not. The Z8 still lags in AF vs the Canon R5, Sony A1, Sony A7R5, and others.
The Z8 looks like a great camera. But for less, one can get the Canon R5 for less that has better AF.
But I'm sure Nikon will address this in a firmware update.
berimbolo wrote:
A7RV ranks last for BIF because of frame rate + lack of stacked sensor? Which would you buy if you weren't doing a lot of BIF?
If I wasn't doing BIF, or just a little bit with slower birds I'd go A7RV. I actually quite enjoyed shooting that camera until I tried to shoot swallows and diving osprey/terns.
But yeah, it is the 10FPS, mechanical shutter (to avoid rolling shutter distortions) with blackout and some EVF lag that puts it from the front to the back of the list when it comes to what I would buy and shoot for my type of stuff.
arbitrage wrote:
If I wasn't doing BIF, or just a little bit with slower birds I'd go A7RV. I actually quite enjoyed shooting that camera until I tried to shoot swallows and diving osprey/terns.
But yeah, it is the 10FPS, mechanical shutter (to avoid rolling shutter distortions) with blackout and some EVF lag that puts it from the front to the back of the list when it comes to what I would buy and shoot for my type of stuff.
Im excited for what happens when they pair the new AF + AI chip with a stacked sensor.
berimbolo wrote:
Im excited for what happens when they pair the new AF + AI chip with a stacked sensor.
It will be interesting times indeed. However, as has been said ad nauseum, if you can't get THE SHOT with any brand of camera these days, hit the bricks, it's you and not the machine.
I'm looking forward to the next REAL leap forward...global shutters, HDR support on all devices/web, or maybe even a camera that simply uses the scene as a visual prompt and spits out an AI image.
RoamingScott wrote:
It will be interesting times indeed. However, as has been said ad nauseum, if you can't get THE SHOT with any brand of camera these days, hit the bricks, it's you and not the machine.
I'm looking forward to the next REAL leap forward...global shutters, HDR support on all devices/web, or maybe even a camera that simply uses the scene as a visual prompt and spits out an AI image.
Joking on that last one, don't murder me.
The last one is probably not that hard to actually implement (my PhD research was in deep learning).
I'm not certain what a global shutter is. I see it mentioned on here every once in a while, but I've never asked.
I do occasionally miss shots with my A9. Some of that is user error. Some of that is lack of bird/animal eye-af.
berimbolo wrote:
The last one is probably not that hard to actually implement (my PhD research was in deep learning).
I'm not certain what a global shutter is. I see it mentioned on here every once in a while, but I've never asked.
I do occasionally miss shots with my A9. Some of that is user error. Some of that is lack of bird/animal eye-af.
Global shutters don't "scan" the sensor top to bottom over time, they take in data from all photosites simultaneously. This completely gets rid of "rolling shutter".
Stacked sensors are simply scanning faster than non-stacked sensors, but are still susceptible to rolling shutter even at fast scan speeds depending on the frequency of light hitting the sensor.
Somehow I was hoping that Nikon could replace S*ny and Canon at one time, but it's looking doubtful. The low pixel count of 4/3 does nothing for me, but maybe it will as the body deteriorates, which won't be too long. 