duncang wrote:
The Z8 and Z9 will not improve much beyond where they are today. The latest Canon and Sony cameras have added additional hardware to improve their subject detection and autofocus. Nikon's brand new release, the Z8, is a generation behind in terms of subject detection and autofocus abilities.
Dang, a generation behind? Yet, almost every review shows the Z9 edging out the competition in AF.. but lets get serious here. Clearly you're nothing but a troll, so grab your barbie polaroid and go play house.
The ultimate proof of insecurity are those that need to go another brand's forum in order to try to preach to the heretics and to try to validate to themselves their choice in camera system. I have never felt the need to do so.
Lance B wrote:
The ultimate proof of insecurity are those that need to go another brand's forum in order to try to preach to the heretics and to try to validate to themselves their choice in camera system. I have never felt the need to do so.
Exactly. I have no problem with folk having civil discussion of the merits of the various camera brands, backed with substantiated fact. But what is it about Nikon that whenever they release new kit, the Nikon forum gets descended upon by non-Nikon owning folk with very little technical or photographic knowledge and even less social skill. YT is full of channels which exist to affirm your brand purchase decisions. That is the place for those folk.
I currently have R5+100-500mm, a great combination. I had 400 DO but, 100-500mm pretty much made it obsolete so I decided to sell 400 DO II and go for Z8+800pf. I think this will work very well for me. I am disappointed by Canon's attitude towards bird photographers. I actually moved from Nikon to canon back in DSLR days due to affordable 400 5.6, 40D+400 5.6 worked great! But 800pf is an irresistible lens right now, so I decided to make the move, I already have the 800pf just need Z8 now. I hope Z8 will be as good as R5 in AF, I am a little concerned there as I have heard not so great stories of Nikon AF performance. Nevertheless, very excited.
birdphotog007 wrote:
I currently have R5+100-500mm, a great combination. I had 400 DO but, 100-500mm pretty much made it obsolete so I decided to sell 400 DO II and go for Z8+800pf. I think this will work very well for me. I am disappointed by Canon's attitude towards bird photographers. I actually moved from Nikon to canon back in DSLR days due to affordable 400 5.6, 40D+400 5.6 worked great! But 800pf is an irresistible lens right now, so I decided to make the move, I already have the 800pf just need Z8 now. I hope Z8 will be as good as R5 in AF, I am a little concerned there as I have heard not so great stories of Nikon AF performance. Nevertheless, very excited....Show more →
I think you'll learn to love the Z8 every bit as much as the R5 after you go through the learning curve of any new system.
Things I think you will miss about the R5 are the button customization and amount/position of the buttons. You will find the Z8 BEAF is not as good as R5 but still good enough where it will recognize when the bird is in a pose you'd want to take a shot anyways. Some of the other AF nuances I always talk about favour the R5 somewhat but the Z8 is still really good so I don't think it will be a big deal.
What you will love about the Z8 over R5 is the EVF shooting experience while shooting action and the ability to always shoot in ES (you have no choice) and not worry about leaning lines and wing funkiness. The R5 is a nicer EVF when not actually firing the shutter but the Z8 is so much better to shoot action when actively firing the shutter.
And then there are the lenses...those on their own can make up for any camera differences....and obviously that is you main driving factor to go Nikon and I don't blame you....I continue to lust for Nikon's four unique wildlife lenses....someday, someday....
Lance B wrote:
[The ultimate proof of insecurity are those that need to go another brand's forum in order to try to preach to the heretics and to try to validate to themselves their choice in camera system.
I'm not defending fanboyism, but you should know this thread was cross-posted to the Canon forum as well, so it's not like people from the Canon side sought out the thread by coming to the Nikon forum.
Alistair1 wrote:
Exactly. I have no problem with folk having civil discussion of the merits of the various camera brands, backed with substantiated fact. But what is it about Nikon that whenever they release new kit, the Nikon forum gets descended upon by non-Nikon owning folk with very little technical or photographic knowledge and even less social skill. YT is full of channels which exist to affirm your brand purchase decisions. That is the place for those folk.
I arrived at a Peregrine site early one morning and was hoping for some photos of a fox family also in that area. I had my elbows braced on the top rail of a fence watching a fox slowly making his way up the game trail they use. Just tracking him and waiting patiently for him to get into clear view. Another photographer must have seen me pointing my camera so he came running over and jumped up onto the second rail of the fence, aiming his Z9 and 800 PF at the now retreating fox he had just scared away. Gone. I didn't say a word, just walked away. Later on over at the peregrine spot, someone was asking me how the Sigma 150-600 S I was shooting was performing on the Z9. "fox chaser" spoke right up, even though he wasn't in the conversation; "you should get one of these", pointing to his 800 PF. The first thought that popped into my head was : "how did that 800 do on the ass end of that fox you just chased away?" I have very similar stories from other places. Point is, if you don't know what you're doing as a wildlife, street, landscape, whatever photographer, these 13 pages don't amount to squat and there will never be a system good enough for you.
Gary
Since it's "gramps story hour", here's another one
Conowingo is about a 7 hour drive for me so when I go I stay over for 2 nights. I've been trying for a head on fishing shot for a while now. I sit on the edge of that river from sun up to sundown for 2 1/2 days. I like it down there because there's not a crowd of people around like up at the top. I burn through a ton of hand and feet warmers The morning I was heading for home I arrived at sunrise and took my spot on the edge of the river. About 10:00 another photographer with about $20,000 worth of Canon gear strapped to his tripod set up right next to me and then went up the bank to sit and have coffee or something with his companion. 15 minutes later I watched an eagle off to my right circling and then go into that legs down pre- dive position. By now I was tracking him, heart pounding, this was it, he was close to the shore, he was facing me, this was going to be the shot I waited 2 1/2 days for. Just then I hear all sorts of scrambling behind me as mr loafers comes slipping and sliding down the hill in a panic trying to get to his camera in time. The eagle, being so close to us and the shore, pulled up and was gone. The guy managed a feeble "I'm sorry". I grabbed my stuff and headed for home.
Again, what's the point of the story ? Dollars spent, system picked ? whatever.
Having read through several pages of this thread, I'm yet another left distinctly bewildered by the pointless attacks of the pitiful trolling brigade with nothing to contribute than snide commentaries preaching false information.
If one can afford the big financial outlay for a capable FX ILC system with high quality optics, reliable Autofocus, and decent frame rates etc etc, many photographers are locked into a system. Which ever one picks among this year's top-end cameras, one is buying a very capable device.
Regardless of the system, pricing the set of lenses vs the camera, the scale always swings down hard on the side under the price(s) of even a minimum set of lenses. Adding just 1 or even more high quality telephotos amplifies where the money is spent! This ratio will often still apply with 2 cameras, if they are pairing with 2 or more top-end "Exotic" telephoto lenses.
We read this more and more often in forums, but it truly is about Marry the Glass, Date the Bodies. In nikonland, a D500 or D850 remains a reliable regular date, who makes every trip and get-together a pleasant experience - year on year.
Extend the harem to a a Z8 or even Z9 and one enjoys even more new experiences and new capabilities (!) This is particularly, because adapters as older lenses work on these brand new cameras. In fact, a 500 PF or one of the many other F-mount lenses performs even better with a FTZ.
Not qualified to comment, but each camera system likely has the same life in it eg the Canon owner can still use DSLR lenses efficiently on their new R Mirrorless. The lesson is obvious - switching is too expensive for most of us mortals.
Already almost 30 years ago it was known that cross-posting incites brand wars and was not allowed on photo.net forums to minimize this type of hostility.
Jman13 wrote:
I'm not defending fanboyism, but you should know this thread was cross-posted to the Canon forum as well, so it's not like people from the Canon side sought out the thread by coming to the Nikon forum.
NikonClio64 wrote:
Having read through several pages of this thread, I'm yet another left distinctly bewildered by the pointless attacks of the pitiful trolling brigade with nothing to contribute than snide commentaries preaching false information.
If one can afford the big financial outlay for a capable FX ILC system with high quality optics, reliable Autofocus, and decent frame rates etc etc, many photographers are locked into a system. Which ever one picks among this year's top-end cameras, one is buying a very capable device.
I think the brand we use matters barely or (more likely) not at all. I happen to use Brand A and Brand B, but my photography would be essentially exactly the same if I used Brands C, D, E, F, or whatever.
A lot of the “my brand is better than your brand” obsession is a way of dealing with insecurity. And there are plenty of things that can create insecurity among photographers. Will people take me seriously? Is my work good enough? Do I know enough? Do I have a vision? What do others think?
Loudly proclaiming that one has the “best” gear is one way to counter this. And, to some extent, the more vociferous the claims that “my stuff is great and yours is not,” the deeper the insecurity seems to be.
(It is also a lot easier — and more profitable — to write or make YouTube videos about gear than about what makes for good photography.)
Among folks I know who are secure about their photography these issues barely ever come up. They might be curious about someone else’s gear, but whether it is better or not just isn’t an issue. No one cares.
Nikon. Canon. Sony. Fujifilm. Whatever. All are excellent and great photography is possible with any of them.
ilkka_nissila wrote:
Already almost 30 years ago it was known that cross-posting incites brand wars and was not allowed on photo.net forums to minimize this type of hostility.
Which is an unfortunate decision because it makes it very difficult to discuss the relative merits of camera gear across brands for those seeking advice on such matters.
birdphotog007 wrote:
I currently have R5+100-500mm, a great combination. I had 400 DO but, 100-500mm pretty much made it obsolete so I decided to sell 400 DO II and go for Z8+800pf. I think this will work very well for me. I am disappointed by Canon's attitude towards bird photographers. I actually moved from Nikon to canon back in DSLR days due to affordable 400 5.6, 40D+400 5.6 worked great! But 800pf is an irresistible lens right now, so I decided to make the move, I already have the 800pf just need Z8 now. I hope Z8 will be as good as R5 in AF, I am a little concerned there as I have heard not so great stories of Nikon AF performance. Nevertheless, very excited....Show more →
Fair assessment to be sure and I had migrated to Canon from Nikon in the late 1980's after the introduction of AF lenses. Since then, I've been all in with Canon except a short foray into Sony with a A7RIV and A9 for a brief period. When the Z9 and 800 were announced, I pre-ordered both and after a year and a half was tired of waiting. Apparently, Nikon has experienced tremendous production issues and the equipment is prioritized for their professional members. If I could land their Z8, 800 S-series and they release a 200-600 lens similar to Sony, I'd be pretty much set for WL.
Jman13 wrote:
I'm not defending fanboyism, but you should know this thread was cross-posted to the Canon forum as well, so it's not like people from the Canon side sought out the thread by coming to the Nikon forum.
OK, I did not realise that was even a thing. Thanks for pointing it out. Maybe it is cross posted in the Sony forum too.
snapsy wrote:
Which is an unfortunate decision because it makes it very difficult to discuss the relative merits of camera gear across brands for those seeking advice on such matters.
It's more unfortunate that adults with wallets more expansive than their IQ or emotional impulse control feel the need to defend brands for free to the point that entire message boards are ruined by their very presence.
A heavy dose of moderation would go a long way, but it's clear that this isn't the direction FM is trending towards. Users have been left with the job of pseudo-moderation via hiding and reporting which clearly isn't working.
With the sometimes purposeful mis-, dis- , information, influencers and FUD, forums everywhere are becoming less useful. Polarization is the norm. Bias can't really be eliminated.
I had hoped to gain insight between the two cameras being discussed and so far it's been mostly noise .
I hope the Z8 lives up to what those are reporting here, since I expect only a few here have actually used the Z8 and are basing their posts on the released specs and the performance of the supposedly similar Z9.
RoamingScott wrote:
It's more unfortunate that adults with wallets more expansive than their IQ or emotional impulse control feel the need to defend brands for free to the point that entire message boards are ruined by their very presence.
A heavy dose of moderation would go a long way, but it's clear that this isn't the direction FM is trending towards. Users have been left with the job of pseudo-moderation via hiding and reporting which clearly isn't working.
Agreed. If you look at an average cross-brand posting like this one you'll find the majority of the responses are reasonable and helpful. There are usually only one or two self-appointed brand ambassadors who muddy the waters, along with a similar number of photography virtue signalers who always show up to tell people gear doesn't matter. So I don't think it would take all that much to clean up comparative threads like this and make them useful.
) and not worry about leaning lines and wing funkiness. The R5 is a nicer EVF when not actually firing the shutter but the Z8 is so much better to shoot action when actively firing the shutter.