I really don't get these brand wars. I have been shooting professionally for over 25 years.
In the past it was Pentax 6x7, once I got into digital it was Nikon.
In the past 5 years I have used Nikon, Pentax 645z and now the GFX100s.
I use each one to it's strength. At the moment the Nikon Z9 is what I use for
action and fast paced shooting, everything else is done with the GFX. I even use
Canon EF glass with adapters on both systems. I view mirrorless as a chance to use
different glass on different systems, something not long ago was impossible..
Ok.. you folks can go back to the childish arguing...
40Driggs wrote:
I'm a mental health therapist and I see a lot of parallels between the brand war issues and other disagreements that people tend to have as a society. I feel like our lack of curiosity and openness to other people's preferences and opinions gets away from a more collective harmonious existence. I've used multiple systems at this point and wish we could just acknowledge the strengths and weaknesses of each and respect other people's opinions that might differ from ours.
You're better equipped than some to understand the psychology of brand loyalty. When people spend a bunch of money, sometimes more money than their means allows, they tend to put a wall around their position and purchase decisions by becoming defensive to any alternatives. If someone raises a meaningful criticism on another product, that can suddenly seem like a personal attack on one's logical abilities and intelligence.
Over time, this seemingly devolves into the brand-attacking-and-defending tribalism we see play out all the time here and other places. Often, it's the people who have the means of expanded purchases and dabbling in different brands who have the clearest heads, because they have no psychological need to defend any one of them.
It's quite interesting overall, if not extremely annoying to wade through when looking for actual discussion or advice.
People like brand wars or something. Certainly engage in a lot of them. Ford vs Chevy, Coke vs Pepsi, maybe even Eagles vs Cowboys. Certainly nothing new or related to photography.
Creative Edge wrote:
I really don't get these brand wars. I have been shooting professionally for over 25 years.
In the past it was Pentax 6x7, once I got into digital it was Nikon.
In the past 5 years I have used Nikon, Pentax 645z and now the GFX100s.
I use each one to it's strength. At the moment the Nikon Z9 is what I use for
action and fast paced shooting, everything else is done with the GFX. I even use
Canon EF glass with adapters on both systems. I view mirrorless as a chance to use
different glass on different systems, something not long ago was impossible..
Ok.. you folks can go back to the childish arguing... ...Show more →
In order to know what to choose, don’t you need to know how gear compares? That’s not childish arguing.
johnvanr wrote:
In order to know what to choose, don’t you need to know how gear compares? That’s not childish arguing.
This is why I prefer to do my own in-hand analysis instead of listening to a variety of opinions from people I don't know from Adam. I tend to weight opinions of most posters far lower than "actual" experience when in the "investigation" portion of a possible purchase.
Often buying used and selling off is a near break even proposition and lets me try tons of gear I would never buy new.
Forums are good for establishing a consensus on gear, but most people aren't pushing their stuff to the edge so it's hard, even then, to suss out the real story vs whatever the consensus might be.
An example: the consensus on the A1 is that it's better at BIF. After having a Z9 in hand for quite some time, I came to the conclusion that whatever theoretical gains that A1 body might give me would be negated by the glass options and lack of features on the body, apart from the fact that the results the Z9 give me are good enough for my tastes. If I'd gone with the consensus I would have taken a bath on buying an A1.
johnvanr wrote:
In order to know what to choose, don’t you need to know how gear compares? That’s not childish arguing.
I was not referring to your post, as I completely understand the reason for asking. What I find amusing with a lot of these
threads is how defensive some folks get about their gear.
Remember to discount most reviews less than 1 year old.
New purchase enthusiasm is highly misleading...This is a problem because reviews tend not to appear after 18 months of a release and very few review something after 2 years of use, which is when you are really likely to know whether it is great as you thought it was in the honeymoon period.
40Driggs wrote:
I'm a mental health therapist and I see a lot of parallels between the brand war issues and other disagreements that people tend to have as a society. I feel like our lack of curiosity and openness to other people's preferences and opinions gets away from a more collective harmonious existence. I've used multiple systems at this point and wish we could just acknowledge the strengths and weaknesses of each and respect other people's opinions that might differ from ours.
This probably fits the best to this thread, I guess. I like his channel.
It's just a rumor for now, but get prepared for firmware charges, at least, Sony users...
The truly pathetic part is many of the commenters on the Sony alpha rumors site are EXCITED about the possibility of paid firmware, because it’s the only way they’ll apparently ever get any. Stockholm Syndrome to the max.
cvrle59 wrote:
This probably fits the best to this thread, I guess. I like his channel.
It's just a rumor for now, but get prepared for firmware charges, at least, Sony users...
Paid firmware/software is nothing new for Sony. They used to have their "Play Memories" downloads. So you want time lapse, download this from our site. If you want multiple exposure, download this, you want bracketing, download this, etc. I went through this with an A6000 I had for a while.
RoamingScott wrote:
The truly pathetic part is many of the commenters on the Sony alpha rumors site are EXCITED about the possibility of paid firmware, because it’s the only way they’ll apparently ever get any. Stockholm Syndrome to the max.
Sony has certainly demonstrated an aversion to releasing feature updates but I think a paid firmware model might actually make a lot of sense for everyone. Camera manufacturers obviously make their money by releasing new models to keep money flowing in to the company. Sometimes those models have new features that require new hardware but there's also a significant number of software improvements as well, both in adding new features and improving existing features and performance.
It sucks to have to lay out $1k to $5k for each new body, esp if you're really after the software improvements. Considering camera manufacturers only derive a fraction of the selling price in profit (margin), they could potentially earn the same amount or more via a paid firmware program. The benefit to consumers is they get many of the improvements they would usually get from a new body but at a fraction of the cost, while the manufacturer makes the same profit as selling new bodies since the margin on firmware updates is much higher than hardware.
40Driggs wrote:
... I see a lot of parallels between the brand war issues and other disagreements that people tend to have as a society. I feel like our lack of curiosity and openness to other people's preferences and opinions gets away from a more collective harmonious existence. I've used multiple systems at this point and wish we could just acknowledge the strengths and weaknesses of each and respect other people's opinions that might differ from ours.
Amen.
I suspect that some of this kind of behavior is broadly present in human cultural, but that in many real world circumstances we have traditionally managed to keep it somewhat under control by means of various social norms about when and how we share out disagreements. (These norms obviously break down in the "real world," too — just less often and less quickly.)
But something about the virtual world and its anonymity and lack of consequences for over-the-top, aggressive, and insulting behavior seems to lead to this kind of acting out.
How many of us, in the real world, would meet someone using a different brand of camera and quickly launch into a diatribe about their idiotic choices, how stupid they are for making them, and how some tiny increment of difference in some specification means everything in the world? Few of us, I hope.
But that's our world now — not just when it comes to photography but regarding almost everything. Disagreement is fine and natural and even good. It is the mode of disagreement that has shifted, and it isn't a good thing.
Again, when it comes to photography gear, while we can obviously identify differences among the products of different manufacturers, all of these companies today make excellent photographic equipment. There are fine and logical (and emotional) reasons for choosing to use any of them. A choice to use Sony or Nikon or Canon or Fujifilm or whatever other brand is not some kind of triumph or failure. Among the world's fine photographers there are those using all of these different brands, and it is impossible to tell which was used when we look at their photographs.
How often did you get mad at someone, thought you should have said this or that , boy you're gonna tell them next time you see them, etc. Then you see them, "oh, hi," realize maybe you're not going to do all that, might even be a bad idea, and move on
But on the digital stuff it's easier to say the stuff you thought about but wouldn't have said, in real life. Cuts the other direction too, though, some. Might say stuff in real life you might not say on here, too
Lots of people here complaining about brand wars…you guessed it…contributing to a brand war. Personally I thought the discussion was interesting at first until folks started making it a brand war with all the back and forth about that. The thread got hijacked and turned into a childish fight I’d have with my wife. Comparing cameras is fun; we all do it. We all show up to these threads and engage. If you’re not interested in comparing cameras and different brands, skip the thread. Simple stuff. It’s a perfectly good discussion to compare the latest Porsche to a three year old Ferrari. This is a gear forum, right?
ruralmontanan wrote:
Lots of people here complaining about brand wars…you guessed it…contributing to a brand war. Personally I thought the discussion was interesting at first until folks started making it a brand war with all the back and forth about that. The thread got hijacked and turned into a childish fight I’d have with my wife. Comparing cameras is fun; we all do it. We all show up to these threads and engage. If you’re not interested in comparing cameras and different brands, skip the thread. Simple stuff. It’s a perfectly good discussion to compare the latest Porsche to a three year old Ferrari. This is a gear forum, right?...Show more →
Well said.
I have never understood why people that don't like reading about comparisons (which are always going to get heated at some point) continue to open these types of threads and complain.
JUST SKIP THE THREAD PEOPLE....I probably click on 0.1% of the threads posted on this forum....I just skip over the rest....if you don't like comparisons just scroll past.
It is always the same five people coming in and complaining about the thread....every time.
Then the other five people trying to make themselves feel good about their purchase decision by defending it to the point of no reason.
Look, if you've made a purchase decision and you've actually used the alternative gear you've ruled out, then we can have a discussion. In the end, we may agree to disagree on what gear we chose. But that probably comes down to previous investments and different priorities for what we want to photograph. People coming in here to blindly defend their decision without having ever touched what they are defending against is pointless.
arbitrage wrote:
I have never understood why people that don't like reading about comparisons (which are always going to get heated at some point) continue to open these types of threads and complain..
It is entirely possible — healthy, even — to both be interested in facts about cameras and hold that obsessing over them to the point that the obsessions degenerate into "brand wars" is unhealthy.
When someone opens a subject about such comparisons and the latter ensues, it is entirely appropriate to call it out and note that the discussion may be going off the rails.
