p.1 #1 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
I'm having a hard time teasing out the specifics of the memory card specifications for the X-T5. Most of the cards on the Fujifilm XT5 compatibility list are v.90 cards, but a few are v.60 cards.
This leads me to believe that the v.60 spec supports the maximum data read/write speeds of the camera, in which case there would be no advantage to v.90 aside from potential (?) faster performance in a high-end card reader, which is of little concern to me.
So my question: Has anyone figured out if the camera's internal specifications actually take advantage of the faster potential speed of the v.90 card or whether the v.60 would literally offer the same performance?
I went from the SanDisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s cards to the Lexar Professional 2000x V90 cards , camera performs better but the buffer still fills quite fast , but shooting small bursts works for me. If you want better performance move up to the XH2 , buffer there is much much better.
I went from the SanDisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s cards to the Lexar Professional 2000x V90 cards , camera performs better but the buffer still fills quite fast , but shooting small bursts works for me. If you want better performance move up to the XH2 , buffer there is much much better.
Thanks for replying.
The performance of the XT5 is fine for my use, so I'm not considering a move to a different camera. What I'm trying to understand is whether or not there will be a real-world performance difference on the XT5 based on getting a v.90 card that meets Fujifilm specs for the camera and getting a v.60 card that also meets the Fujifilm specs for the XT5
If I'm not mistaken, the 95MB cards you mention are v.30. Fujifilm does not spec any v.30 cards for the XT5, so I would not consider them for this camera.
Consequently, it isn't a surprise that the v.90 cards would work better than cards that fall below the Fujifilm spec for the camera.
But I'm afraid that doesn't help much with my specific question, which is whether there is any advantage in terms of actual camera performance (as differentiated from card specs) from going to the specified v.90 cards rather than the specified v.60 cards.
Part of the background to the question is that there has long been a notion that buying the very fastest card would improve camera performance related to burst rate and/or speed to empty the buffer. Essentially the assumption has been that the faster the card the faster the camera performance.
It turns out that this isn't quite the case. Often the limitation is the camera's own internal ability to read and write data, not the speed of the card itself. In other words, while the card is faster... it exceeds the camera's ability to read/write to the card.
Because Fujifilm does specify two types of v.60 cards for the camera (from Sony and one other company), I suspect but so far have not been able to verify that while it is fine to use v.90 cards on the XT5, their use won't actually improve camera operation speed. If the extra cost of a v.90 card (about twice that of approved v.60 cards!) doesn't improve performance, I'm not interested. If there is some evidence that it does improve performance in a meaningful way, I would pay for the better cards.
p.1 #4 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
I get what you're saying , it would be nice to know if the camera is the limiting factor. But reality is , does it matter with the cost of SD cards these days. You can often buy the best in class cards for as cheap as the next level down, so why not. You will often benefit with the increased speed of transferring data to the computer even if the camera doesn't take advantage. You are also helping to future proof the cards for the next camera provided the format doesn't change.
p.1 #5 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
JustShootMe wrote:
Do some tests , cards are in inexpensive.
For the cards I'm looking at (a pair of 256GB cards), the current cost is about $180 a pair for v.60s on Fujifilm's list versus around $400 and up for a pair of v.90s from the list.
Seems like it could be an expensive test!
With all of the people testing cards and cameras, I was hoping that someone had already done the test.
p.1 #6 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
gdanmitchell wrote:
For the cards I'm looking at (a pair of 256GB cards), the current cost is about $180 a pair for v.60s on Fujifilm's list versus around $400 and up for a pair of v.90s from the list.
Seems like it could be an expensive test!
With all of the people testing cards and cameras, I was hoping that someone had already done the test.
Give it some time , the camera is still new.
Also why do you need 2 cards to test ? You only need 1, the secondary slot can be a slower speed. That's the way I use it , raw to fast card , jpeg to slower card. I guess you are writing raw to both for backup ?
They maintain that V60 cards are theoretically sufficient for all purposes, but not all cards (even V90) are up to task for maximum burst shooting in the real world. I'm using some SanDisk Extreme Pro 300 MB/s V90 cards I already had, which only ranked 13th in their tests, but so far I haven't torture tested the burst shooting performance with a live theater gig and don't do 4k/6k video so I can't confirm (yet).
They maintain that V60 cards are theoretically sufficient for all purposes, but not all cards (even V90) are up to task for maximum burst shooting in the real world. I'm using some SanDisk Extreme Pro 300 MB/s V90 cards I already had, which only ranked 13th in their tests, but so far I haven't torture tested the burst shooting performance with a live theater gig and don't do 4k/6k video so I can't confirm (yet).
Your cards are v.90, so there is unlikely to be any _significant_ difference between them and other reputable v.90 cards. Their performance may not be perfectly identical, but the differences are certain to be too tiny to matter.
I've been to that link a few times now, and if you read (and watch) carefully, they aren't answering this question either. In fact, if I'm understanding the video on that page, he's actually holding up a v.60 card as his example of one that is faster... and it isn't clear to me what the rating is for the "slower" card.
(In one such "test" I saw online, the presenter was actually comparing a v.30 — which does not meet Fujifilm specs — to a v.60. Maybe that was this video?)
As far as I can tell, no one has yet done a test that demonstrates that the faster v.90 cards actually perform better than good v.60 cards (such as those on the Fujifilm list) on the XT5. Most of the online sources simply repeat two different points that are true but don't answer the question:
1. There are differences in card performance between brands. True — though they are often very small.
2. The specification for v/90 cards includes faster read/write speeds. True — but does the XT5 use the extra speed?
Both true, but does the XT5 actually benefit in any measurable way when Fujifilm approved v.90 cards are used instead of Fujifilm approved v.60 cards?
(The answer depends on whether the performance limit is determined by card performance or the internal read/write speeds of the camera itself. Since Fujifilm includes two brands of v.60 cards in their recommended list, I suspect that the limit is in the camera, and that faster card types won't produce faster camera speeds. But so far, no one seems to know.)
p.1 #9 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
Back a bit later...
Not quite sure how to interpret this off-the-cuff and far from scientific test, but...
... I just took a Lexar Professional 128GB SDXC-II 150 MP/s 1000X card out of my old XPro2 and snapped it into my XT5. I used the 15fps mechanical shutter burst mode setting. It seemed to fill the buffer in the 19 (?) frames that I expected in raw mode with no speed issues. (I write lossless compressed raw files to two cards.) Once the buffer was full it kept shooting at a slower rate as expected.
This is a card that sells for something in the $35-$40 range these days.
If we trust the 150 MP/s description, its potential speed should be slower than that of the v.60 cards, which seem to have 250+ MB/s read speeds and write speeds that are roughly half of that.
This at least _suggests_ that the thing isn't going to burst any _faster_ or _longer_ with v.90 instead of v.60 cards. I suppose it is possible that the buffer might clear faster? Maybe? (Edit: It is also certain that the slower card won't support full video performance.)
p.1 #10 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
In the memorycardexpert link it shows a table of tests where the fastest V90 cards were faster than the fastest V60 cards - doesn't this answer your question?
The decision is then - is the relatively small speed advantage worth the extra cost?
There do not yet seem to be any other large scale tests so - if you are buying now - you probably have all the information you are going to get.
Are your continuous bursts long enough to fill the buffer and will it affect your shooting if there is a small extra delay in clearing the buffer?
p.1 #11 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
I think if you're constantly shooting 6.2k footage, you might want a v90 card.
But you're probably not going to see a difference between RAW footage and H.265 or H.264 compressed footage which require a much lower bitrate.
Plus the ProRes footage requires a much more powerful computer to process it, and more internet bandwidth to view it than most people have.
*Edit* - The XT5 doesn't support in-camera RAW, you need to use an external recorder.
So if you're a casual video shooter then you might just want to shoot compressed video all the time, so V60 cards should be more than sufficient for that task.
p.1 #12 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
AZ Photo wrote:
In the memorycardexpert link it shows a table of tests where the fastest V90 cards were faster than the fastest V60 cards - doesn't this answer your question?
Not exactly.
v.90 cards are faster than v.60 cards. Part of the v.90 spec is the guarantee of faster minimum speeds and the promise of higher maximums.
Yet, a faster card does not necessarily speed up the performance of the device using it. The card speed is not the only determinant of system speed – the device it is used in has to be able to provide data to (or read data from) the device at equally fast rates.
So the question is: Does the camera of read/writ data at the higher card rates? (If so, a second question: How large is the difference?)
Are your continuous bursts long enough to fill the buffer and will it affect your shooting if there is a small extra delay in clearing the buffer?
That's an excellent question.
The card speed appears to be irrelevant when it comes to the camera's rated burst mode speeds and capacity. It also appears that a choice to use a v.60 or faster v.90 card will now have any meaningful effect on how many shots the buffer can hold during a burst.
A difference could be in the frame rate after the buffer fills. If I had various cards, that would be pretty easy to test. Just punch down the shutter button and then note how fast the shutter fires after the initial high speed burst fills the buffer.
A second difference could be how long it takes the camera to write a full buffer to the card after the buffer fills. (This is related to but not the same measure as above.)
So far it is hard to get actual fact as opposed bland statements that amount to "v90 spec is faster than v60 card spec" or untested assumptions that the camera actually performs faster with the faster cards.
Currently, I'm inclined to get one of the v.60 cards from Fujifilm's list of tested cards.
p.1 #13 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
gdanmitchell wrote:
Not exactly.
v.90 cards are faster than v.60 cards. Part of the v.90 spec is the guarantee of faster minimum speeds and the promise of higher maximums.
Yet, a faster card does not necessarily speed up the performance of the device using it. The card speed is not the only determinant of system speed – the device it is used in has to be able to provide data to (or read data from) the device at equally fast rates.
So the question is: Does the camera of read/writ data at the higher card rates? (If so, a second question: How large is the difference ...Show more →
Maybe I’m missing something here - that is exactly what the chart in the link shows - performance with a combination of card and camera - and the V90 cards support a higher burst rate with the camera
p.1 #14 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
gdanmitchell wrote:
Part of the background to the question is that there has long been a notion that buying the very fastest card would improve camera performance related to burst rate and/or speed to empty the buffer. Essentially the assumption has been that the faster the card the faster the camera performance.
It turns out that this isn't quite the case. Often the limitation is the camera's own internal ability to read and write data, not the speed of the card itself. In other words, while the card is faster... it exceeds the camera's ability to read/write to the card.
Since you're talking about video class specs I assume you'll be shooting video. The XT5 maxes out at a bitrate of 360 Mb/sec for video.
The XT5 spec sheet says "For recording movies in 360Mbps, use a SD memory card with Video Speed Class 60 or higher."
If you use the very fastest card you can find then of course that will increase performance, but only up to a point, which depends on how much data the processor is capturing.
I don't really know how Fuji chooses the cards on its "Compatibility Chart". I know that it says that the cards have been "confirmed" but I have no idea what the testing parameters were. Theoretically, any SD card should work on the XT5.
p.1 #15 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
AZ Photo wrote:
Maybe I’m missing something here - that is exactly what the chart in the link shows - performance with a combination of card and camera - and the V90 cards support a higher burst rate with the camera
The parameters of the test and the meaning of the results are not clear. For example, "burst speed" should not be affected by the card you use, since a) burst speed is set by the camera and b) camera speed during burst should not be affected by the card since the speed is determined by how fast the images are written to the camera's. buffer.
I'm pretty sure that whatever card you use — even a sub V60 card — the camera will burst at exactly the same rate.
So it is quite unclear what is actually being measured in the "burst speed" column. Is it the cards basic write speed? Is it some extrapolation of the rate at which the camera continues to "burst" once the buffer is full? Something else?
There is data in the chart, but what it represents is entirely unclear.
mdude85 wrote:
Since you're talking about video class specs I assume you'll be shooting video. The XT5 maxes out at a bitrate of 360 Mb/sec for video.
The XT5 spec sheet says "For recording movies in 360Mbps, use a SD memory card with Video Speed Class 60 or higher."
If you use the very fastest card you can find then of course that will increase performance, but only up to a point, which depends on how much data the processor is capturing.
I don't really know how Fuji chooses the cards on its "Compatibility Chart". I know that it says that the cards have been "confirmed" but I have no idea what the testing parameters were. Theoretically, any SD card should work on the XT5....Show more →
Actually the question isn't about video — though you are correct to point out that if it were, any v60 card should meet the minimum camera specifications for all supported formats as per Fujifilm's description.
I'm using the v60 and v90 classification as a shorthand for the generally consistent read/write speeds among cards in either of the two categories.
I can't shed any light on the actual meaning of the so-called compatibility chart. My hunch is that this is a group of cards that they tested in the camera and found to meet their specifications. If so, it is inclusive rather than exclusive, and it would be a stretch to assume that any card not on the list but which also meets the v60 or v90 standard would not work as well.
p.1 #16 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
gdanmitchell wrote:
I can't shed any light on the actual meaning of the so-called compatibility chart. My hunch is that this is a group of cards that they tested in the camera and found to meet their specifications. If so, it is inclusive rather than exclusive, and it would be a stretch to assume that any card not on the list but which also meets the v60 or v90 standard would not work as well.
I guess I (and others) do not know what you mean by "work as well".
It depends on what you're doing with the camera that will dictate what card will work the best.
The camera does not have any "internal specifications [that] actually take advantage of the faster potential speed of the v.90 card or whether the v.60". It's not like a faster card unlocks some yet-discovered potential of the camera. It's a matter of whether the task at hand requires (or would benefit from) the rate that the card can send or receive data.
If you know the bitrate of your video then you can easily calculate the minimum necessary write speed.
p.1 #17 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
Again, video isn't the issue. According to Fujifilm's own page on cards, v60 cards seem to be fine for all of the supported video formats.
You hear people stating that one of the newest v90 cards, being faster, will improve the camera's operational speed. If so, and if the improvement would be significant, I'd be willing to pay the extra (2x) price for v90 cards rather than v60.
1. I don't see how a faster v60 card could increase the camera's normal burst rates compared to using a v60 card. Here the burst speed is limited by the camera's own internal buffer, and it should operate at the speed you select in the camera.
2. Conceptually I understand how a faster card could theoretically increase how fast the camera can write the buffered images to the card, with two potential positive effects: The buffer could clear a bit faster and when shooting beyond the buffer's capacity the camera could potentially slow down less.
In the first case, a faster card should make no difference at all.
In the second case, it depends. If the camera's write speed can match the cards transfer rate then there could be a speedup of the transfer (and clearing the buffer) and the full buffer might be available a bit more quickly after the camera finishes writing to the card.
But if the limiting factor is the camera's ability to write faster than what the v60 cards support, there would not be any significant advantage to the v90 card. It would work, but you wouldn't get any value for the extra cost.
I still haven't seen a concrete answer to this, including at the linked website mentioned earlier.
Anyway...
... getting the answer isn't urgent. The cards I moved from my XPro2 work fine for now, and I shouldn't need any additional capacity for a month or two.
p.1 #18 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
gdanmitchell wrote:
The parameters of the test and the meaning of the results are not clear. For example, "burst speed" should not be affected by the card you use, since a) burst speed is set by the camera and b) camera speed during burst should not be affected by the card since the speed is determined by how fast the images are written to the camera's. buffer.
I'm pretty sure that whatever card you use — even a sub V60 card — the camera will burst at exactly the same rate.
I agree that they could be clearer about the exact design of the test - they say:
"RAW images are recorded with the respective camera for at least 20 to 30 seconds and the exact time that the camera needs to store the images is stopped. The difference is measured from the first lighting up until the memory LED turns off. Since each picture has a different size, we do not present the value in pictures/second, but divide the overall file size by time to safe all images. This results in a familiar MB/s value."
This implies that the speed does include the time required to write to the card - and assuming that is true - the important thing might be the relative difference rather than the exact numbers i.e. the V90 cards they tested are faster.
As of now, he has no test data on the X-T5, but he does for most other Fujifilm cameras up to the X-H2S. I’d expect the X-T5 to most closely match the X-T4 in terms of requirements, except possibly for video.
Note that he recommends V90 cards for bursts, but says they are not needed for video, at least for the X-T4. Of course, both the X-H2 & X-H2S have a much faster CF Express B card available for both purposes.
p.1 #20 · v.60 versus v.90 for X-T5? (updated 1/18/22)
@G Dan Mitchell
Once the data is captured, processed and encoded, the camera probably has no practical limit as to how fast it can write to a card. It can output ProRes RAW footage via HDMI at very high bitrates.
The buffer has a depth (119 JPEGs according to DPR), the card has a maximum write speed, and the sensor/processor has a maximum limit to how many bits of data it can capture and process per second.
Those are the limiting factors here.
If you have a V90 card with double the write speed of a V60 card, then it will clear the buffer 2x faster. Whether that will translate into a noticeable difference in your shooting is highly situational. Whether you're willing to pay 2x for that faster data transfer, only you can make that call.
Unless you are a serious video shooter you don't need a V90 card. If you're a professional sports shooter then you're probably also using a V90 card, but you're also probably only shooting JPGs, not bursts of uncompressed RAW files. If you are a street, portrait or travel photographer and only dabble in video, a V60 card is more than sufficient (even a V30 card would be fine). I wouldn't advise getting too caught up in the specifics, unless testing buffer clearance rates and transfer speeds is something you enjoy.
