joychris wrote:
False. Every DFD camera behaves the same way. 😂 😂 Its why Panasonic has finally advanced to where Sony was five years ago.
Which camera were you using, and how did you have the AF set up? Or are you just another clueless internet troll regurgitating something you saw on YouTube?
molson wrote:
Which camera were you using, and how did you have the AF set up? Or are you just another clueless internet troll regurgitating something you saw on YouTube?
G9 and S1/S1h. All were mediocre AF-wise compared to an ancient a6300. And the real time tracking bodies like the a7IV and a7sIII are so much better, the subject tracking is like cheating in comparison. It’s why I own them with the 200-600 for photo and video.
I thought about a switch to Panny, but that awful DFD pulsing was a deal breaker. Being far sighted I rely on AF for video. Sony is so far ahead, it’s a big part of what keeps me in the E-mount. That and the superior native AF lens selection otherwise Canon or even the S52 would be an option.
Don't engage Molson, don't engage, they are circling. Ai is pervasive, users expect this now for subject recognition and tracking, and then need enough pixels to crop out the rest. DFD is the best system for many things, that is why it is still used in the S5 II for the most difficult situations such as AF at 30 fps and -6 EV from what I understood, likely wrong. Engineers seem to also suggest that the DFD influences stabilization algorithms, 3D colour algorithm, plus many other things including extraordinary focus. I dumped that 1DX II after fifteen years of 1 series when I got S pro glass and S1/S1R bodies. I can deliberately produce pulsing if I was challenged to, but I have simply transitioned with really no change in technique and higher in-focus rate and much better overall image fidelity from Panasonic bodies. Yes, I still use EM1X and EM1 for phase detect when I need it, and welcome the addition to S bodies, but if DFD was so bad why would Panasonic use it alongside and in place of PDAF still in the same body? The A9 II is remarkable in some ways, mostly for adapted glass performance and the opportunity to not think or plan and still get an image, but on the whole that is not an advantage over DFD in overall image quality. Panasonic is simple too sophisticated, and is really a whole system concept, for most people to learn how to use fully (including me) so Ai is coming to the rescue to support the main commercial market of vloggin/bloggin/podcastin with the S5 II series. I will add the new S1R PDAF iteration to my trunk, and ideally the G9 PDAF too since I have some much m43 glass and EF on Metabones adapter and both boosters, but can we please stop with the DFD bashing if you do not have success with it and refuse to learn...just go Ai be happy, I am too.
joychris wrote:
Sony has a native TC and the 200-600 is superior to the Sigma zooms in the same range. Tamron has smaller and cheaper options. The recent GM lenses are class leading and have linear AF motors which are clearly superior to stepping motors. The 12-24 GM is unmatched. So is the 24/35/50/135 GM. Same for the recent GM II’s that make the huge Panasonic 2.8’s look silly in comparison considering the cost/size/IQ.
Then you have unique lenses like the 35-150 not available anywhere else. The little Samyang primes are gems. So are the Viltrox’s. And everything Sigma offers is in E-mount too outside of TC’s. But I paid $1400 for my 200-600 here. Just can’t beat it.
The most recent Sony’s with the newest processors and grip absolutely nail the ergos (for me), the menus are great and in use they are fantastic. They super fast, responsive and have great touchscreens. The tap to track is just magical. It sticks to everything with remarkable accuracy.
Yes we’re splitting hairs, but you’re getting the same sensors on Sony with more lenses, big - small - cheap - expensive - wide - long - aps-c - FF - high MP, class leading speed and so on: nobody can match what the E-mount offers.
L-mount is making strides, but it’s not there yet. I’m interested because I really like what Panasonic is doing. But the S5II and L-mount lenses aren’t enough to make me switch yet.
I think Tamron is the biggest argument for Sony, by far. The GM are excellent as well, no doubt, but Tamron is the biggest temptation for me in E-Mount. That said, The L-Mount is making strides as you said, and I do appreciate that the mount is more compatible to those in the alliance than Sony. No capped burst rates and ability to use teleconverters is a big deal.
Generally, you're correct that no one can match Sony's offerings across bodies and lenses. But if I'm investing thousands of dollars into a new system, honestly speaking Sony's durability and support are not very enticing. I hear too many stories of camera bodies destroyed and getting no support from Sony. Some of my colleagues shoot Sony and they are constantly running into issues. Never had a single problem with my Panasonic despite putting it through hell.
This, and the way Sony approaches their firmware strategy. Buying a camera now knowing that a newer, cheaper version will have better features that I may never get, also unappealing.
I hope the increased competition forces Sony to adopt a new outlook on how they manage their business and focus on user experience as much as these other brands do.
I have owned bodies from a number of manufacturers including Panasonic. I truly thought the S1 body was built spectacularly well but I have owned 4 different Son's as well (over many years) with absolutely no mechanical issues. Nor have I heard of any of my friends who are pro shooters complain about reliability.
As for feature upgrades., to a certain extent new cameras have more features. Even Panasonic does this. I really like what they have done with 5 but it certainly has features their flagship cameras do not have.
Not disparaging Panasonic as they make great cameras but I currently shoot Sony as they best meet my current needs.
My main concern is the fact it's still 24mp like their mk1. This mk2 is basically a videocentric camera with better af. It's great if you are video focused but I'm more of photography guy. This and the lack of native lenses makes it a non-starter for me. I don't get why they did not up the mp for the mk2 version of this. Weird. Isn't panny aware of sony a7iv? Even sony upped the sensor size by almost 30% to 33mp. ps. isn't it true that panny 4k60 is cropped. huh.
The one thing I really wanted to see with the next 5 body was the s1/r tilt+flip LCD design. Apparently that didn't happen, so I'll be keeping the Sony setup.
pointbob wrote:
My main concern is the fact it's still 24mp like their mk1. This mk2 is basically a videocentric camera with better af. It's great if you are video focused but I'm more of photography guy. This and the lack of native lenses makes it a non-starter for me. I don't get why they did not up the mp for the mk2 version of this. Weird. Isn't panny aware of sony a7iv? Even sony upped the sensor size by almost 30% to 33mp. ps. isn't it true that panny 4k60 is cropped. huh.
24mp is the sweet spot for videocentric camras, the A7IV has such bad rolling shutter Panasonic would never put this in their cameras. It's true it's an advantage for photography, but for video it's the opposite. I'm waiting for the 40mp stacked sensor that I hope will come in a higher end body on day. There are plenty of native lenses though, as Sigma and Leica lenses are considered native on L-Mount.
novalaker wrote:
24mp is the sweet spot for videocentric camras, the A7IV has such bad rolling shutter Panasonic would never put this in their cameras. It's true it's an advantage for photography, but for video it's the opposite. I'm waiting for the 40mp stacked sensor that I hope will come in a higher end body on day. There are plenty of native lenses though, as Sigma and Leica lenses are considered native on L-Mount.
Allegedly, aka rumor is Sony's new video-centric A7sIV will be 24MPs too:
novalaker wrote:
24mp is the sweet spot for videocentric camras,
Works fine for stills too. I've compared my old M10 24 Mpix to the 60 Mpix M11 on big print: hard to see the difference.
Even harder if one resize with AI-based Topazlabs tools.
ragsn_old_iron wrote:
I dumped that 1DX II after fifteen years of 1 series when I got S pro glass and S1/S1R bodies. I can deliberately produce pulsing if I was challenged to, but I have simply transitioned with really no change in technique and higher in-focus rate and much better overall image fidelity from Panasonic bodies. Yes, I still use EM1X and EM1 for phase detect when I need it, and welcome the addition to S bodies.
Wow, great. I did a simple move from 1DXII to Canon R series, continue to use all my EF glass, and also got 'higher in-focus rate and much better overall image fidelity' all in one camera with excellent dual-pixel PDAF across virtually the entire sensor area. All in one $2500 US camera! (worth repeating).
ragsn_old_iron wrote:
The A9 II is remarkable in some ways, mostly for adapted glass performance and the opportunity to not think or plan and still get an image
From my experience you can not think or plan and still get an image with any camera.
rscheffler wrote:
From my experience you can not think or plan and still get an image with any camera.
Might not be a good image.
Yes, Ai systems have made it so nearly anyone can get an image these days, and I agree with you, they are mostly not good images. Still, I am happy for those who need the help regardless of brand, and there are many choices available.
Jan 31, 2023 at 10:03 AM
Mark Metternich Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
I sure hope the version two comes out. And I hope they don’t overdo the megapixels. I believe 47 is the sweet spot for 35mm sure. 50 tops.
I get to constantly test Hasselblad files, Phase One, Leica files, GFX 100… and my two favorite cameras on earth right now are the Panasonic Lumix S1R and the Leica SL2 using their superior pixel shift HD mode. Combining that in grand landscape scenes where everything is at infinity, shooting at the lowest ISO, and the absolute best Leica or Zeiss glass, and sharpest f/stop… making huge enlargements for top end galleries… I actually put these two cameras at the top in the world right now, of how the files perform.
molson wrote:
I will probably hold out for an S1R II.
novalaker wrote:
I think Tamron is the biggest argument for Sony, by far. The GM are excellent as well, no doubt, but Tamron is the biggest temptation for me in E-Mount. That said, The L-Mount is making strides as you said, and I do appreciate that the mount is more compatible to those in the alliance than Sony. No capped burst rates and ability to use teleconverters is a big deal.
Generally, you're correct that no one can match Sony's offerings across bodies and lenses. But if I'm investing thousands of dollars into a new system, honestly speaking Sony's durability and support are not very enticing. I hear too many stories of camera bodies destroyed and getting no support from Sony. Some of my colleagues shoot Sony and they are constantly running into issues. Never had a single problem with my Panasonic despite putting it through hell.
This, and the way Sony approaches their firmware strategy. Buying a camera now knowing that a newer, cheaper version will have better features that I may never get, also unappealing.
I hope the increased competition forces Sony to adopt a new outlook on how they manage their business and focus on user experience as much as these other brands do. ...Show more →
If Tamron would produce lenses for l-mount, I’d still own an s5iix.
Panasonics lenses are large, and their bodies are large (s9 aside). The AF tracking is also behind Sony big time (even the 4 year old A7siii). Also. lots of what Pana does in terms of video formats you have to attach an SSD, and the slow-mo is very meh (AF and crop).
I expect the AF, lack of CF port and slow mo to be addressed in the next body. And rolling shutter. And hopeful shrunk a bit.
I liked their 18, 35, 50 and 85/1.8’s. Ergo was great. IBIS smoked Sony. Lovely exposure tools. Great price.
But my most used lenses is the Tamron 20-40/2.8. And the 70-180/2.8 is smaller, better and cheaper than the Pana 70-200/4 version.
