Hm, do you guys think its worth it to get the original S5 as a B-cam / Take everywhere Stills camera, until the S5 II X is out? or just buy the S5 II now?
I've been debating on either getting the A7IV and go all in on the Emount (Currently have an A7RII), or move into the L mount instead (to build out towards the Leica SL system in the future. currently have a Q2)
I'm already seeing the S5 selling for great prices (it was $1500 with the 85 1.8 brand new last month, and used im seeing lower than $800). The S1R seems to be a good buy nowadays too. But its a bit massive and i hear low light AF is terrible on it.
Started out as a videos guy, but nowadays i find myself doing more stills than video. And if i do video it'll likely be done with my Ursa mini 4.6k, though the S5 II (or X) could replace that even. (i dont do any events / run gun videos. I'll likely do more talking head / interview things, and maaaaybe some documentary work)
noodlz wrote:
Started out as a videos guy, but nowadays i find myself doing more stills than video. And if i do video it'll likely be done with my Ursa mini 4.6k, though the S5 II (or X) could replace that even.
Given this, I'd stick with Sony for photography. The cameras are more stills-focused (apart from the A7s series) and there's a bigger and better selection of native lenses. Thousands of other lenses can be adapted for either e-mount or l-mount, so that's another option if you don't need autofocus; I've chosen to go the adapted route which gives me maximum flexibility in terms of camera platforms for the future, but I only use manual lenses for stills and video.
Sony or Panasonic are a step down from Blackmagic in terms of video quality and codecs; that's started to change (especially if you use an external recorder) but if you're using an Ursa as your main video camera you'd be better off with something like a Pocket 4K as a b-cam for video rather than trying to mix and match cameras from different manufacturers in post -- it can be done of course, but why make things more difficult for yourself. I shoot Sony for stills and Blackmagic for video; I am not really interested in hybrid cameras that can do both because there's always a compromise in either the stills or the video department. It's convenient and cheaper to have one camera that can do it all, but if you want the best quality and shooting experience, I find it's better to use cameras that were designed and built with either stills or video in mind, not both. Most of the Sony and Panasonic models are hybrids that can do stills and video, but most are focused more on one versus the other.
Ah thanks for the heads up. Reading through the thread now. Also I agree that with hybrid cameras there's more often than not a compromise.
I guess the lure for me is building out an L lens selection for when i get the leica SL. That and the promise of amazing AF on panasonic sounds super enticing (i used to have and loved using a G9 before moving away from MFT)
Then again maybe I should do go directly for SL now, since used nowadays they're around $2000 directly from leica stores.... GAS is real and i got it bad lol.
But logically & practically you're probably right. I should just stick to the sony system since they're reliable and have a ton of affordable lenses. I do love the grip on the A7IV
LUMIX S5II making a strong case with improved autofocusing. No big difference in Sony Canon Nikon image quality but LUMIX S lenses certainly impress across the board. Granted Fuji APS-C cameras also deliver the goods like Fuji 16-55mm f2,8 LM. But comparisons with LUMIX 24-105mm f4 Macro OIS start one thinking. LUMIX S5II / S5IIX changing the goal-posts and worth considering as video cameras. Prefer LUMIX S5II size than compact Fuji X-T5. The camera market defying all rules with prices to match. Whether consumers stay the course upgrading paying higher prices will now be decided. Crunch-time.
LUMIX S1 / S5 full-frame cameras with two different body sizes perhaps expanded with mid-range S3? S5 as base model and S1 types more upmarket camera for special uses. Panasonic holding fast with their video advantage but presenting still photographers with some great lenses plus SIGMA. The camera market moving towards higher spec cameras with higher prices unavoidable. Panasonic in a strong position especially with LUMIXS5II / LUMIX S5IIX making a big impression.
Richard-BB wrote:
LUMIX S1 / S5 full-frame cameras with two different body sizes perhaps expanded with mid-range S3? S5 as base model and S1 types more upmarket camera for special uses. Panasonic holding fast with their video advantage but presenting still photographers with some great lenses plus SIGMA. The camera market moving towards higher spec cameras with higher prices unavoidable. Panasonic in a strong position especially with LUMIXS5II / LUMIX S5IIX making a big impression.
I like the idea, but what would the midrange camera be? The S1 would have to be really special for something in the mid-range to exist. Very curious to see how this lineup plays out.
Difference in sensors S5II at 24mp / S3 at 33mp / S1R at 47mp for example.
Lumix S cameras for video. New S3 for still photography; no fan?
Too many camera models? Like APS-C Fuji X-T5 X-H2 X-H2S X-S10 X-PRO3
flash wrote:
Where are they lacking though? Apart from a couple of super teles and a fisheye, which are easily adapted. Sony have no T/S lenses either. Everyone just adapts the Canon’s, including the L mount.
I believe it’s close to 50 lenses across the three brands. Up until 300mm I see no holes at all. Most lenses are available in multiple speeds at multiple price points.
I would like to see a few more halo options at the 400mm+ end, Sure. But few drop 10K on a fixed tele, althouh I do find it strance Sigma haven’t dropped a single super tele prime.
You have far more options at every focal length and price point with the E-mount. There are many more options on Sony as well with the various AF adapters.
After watching the comparison videos, Sony’s AF is definitely still a step ahead.
But it’s definitely a big leap forward for Panasonic. The next gen or a few FW updates might get it all right.
joychris wrote:
You have far more options at every focal length and price point with the E-mount.
True, but some people prefer quality over quantity.
After watching the comparison videos, Sony’s AF is definitely still a step ahead.
What I hate about Sony video AF is that it defaults to continuous AF only, with no ability to control it if it loses the subject (which it frequently does with small birds). Panasonic gives you to options of S-AF, C-AF, or MF with back-button Near-AF or Far-AF over-ride.
joychris wrote:
You have far more options at every focal length and price point with the E-mount. There are many more options on Sony as well with the various AF adapters.
After watching the comparison videos, Sony’s AF is definitely still a step ahead.
But it’s definitely a big leap forward for Panasonic. The next gen or a few FW updates might get it all right.
Cheers
Chris
Yes, No competitor comes close to the current available mirrorless E-mount lenses FF/APSC AF/MF. By a long shot.
L-Mount is current runner-up well ahead of Canon, Nikon mirrorless with well over 100 L-Mount lenses currently available and more on the way to include up to 600mm Sigma L-mount zoom on the long end, but also TCs for more reach.
Now that Panasonic is offering on-sensor PDAF, more may be using this system for fast moving subjects sports/wildlife etc, which might result in more demand for super-telephoto primes and zooms, like the recently announced:
"Sigma 60-600mm f/4.5-6.3 DG DN OS Sports lens for Sony E-mount and Leica L-mount"
For instance "New Sigma patent discloses the design of the new 500mm f/5.6 OS, 700mm f/8 OS and 400mm f/5 OS". I'm admittedly guessing, might be offered in L-mount too, IF any of these patents ever make it to design and production.
Regardless, now matter how many or how few, buying into the system that offers our desired/wanted lens and FL in native mount has always been foundational when considering buying into any system.
Richard-BB wrote:
LUMIX S5II making a strong case with improved autofocusing. No big difference in Sony Canon Nikon image quality but LUMIX S lenses certainly impress across the board. Granted Fuji APS-C cameras also deliver the goods like Fuji 16-55mm f2,8 LM. But comparisons with LUMIX 24-105mm f4 Macro OIS start one thinking. LUMIX S5II / S5IIX changing the goal-posts and worth considering as video cameras. Prefer LUMIX S5II size than compact Fuji X-T5. The camera market defying all rules with prices to match. Whether consumers stay the course upgrading paying higher prices will now be decided. Crunch-time.
You have far more options at every focal length and price point with the E-mount. There are many more options on Sony as well with the various AF adapters.
Chris
Is there though, apart from the above mentioned super teles, and a fisheye?
Sony has Tamron, which I freely admit is a big win for Sony. I’d have the 35-150 in a nano-second if I shot Sony now.
Sony has Viltrox, which I know little about.
They both have Sigma. But only L mount offers a teleconverter for the 150-600 and upcoming 60-600.
Panasonic has Leica. There’s nothing anywhere like the APO Summicrons. Probably the best set of matched primes ever made. At a unique price point yes!! But simply spectacular in every way. Leica’s 90-280 is still better than any Sony mid tele zoom. Actually I prefer all the Leica zooms to any of the E mount options. But for the 24-90 and 16-35 it’s not sharpness, it’s rendering, which is subjective. L mount colour is better though.
If I pick a 50mm as an example because it’s my preferred focal length, I have 6 native AF options across three brands. How much more choice do I need?
Now Sony does have APSC, which Leica have just dropped. Which is a shame because they had the best set of APSC lenses ever made, by some margin. The Leica CL is going to be collectable because of those lenses.
I agree that the Sony AF is still ahead, if I judge by the videos. I haven’t seen a S5II yet. But what if you really really dislike Sony cameras? Great tech. Lousy handling, balance and menus. Questionable weather sealing claims. The original S5 is a really good camera in the hand and I suspect the mk2 will be as well. I suppose the question is, is there all the glass I need in the L mount system and if there is do I choose a better made camera over better tech, especially if getting that tech will cost more money because at it’s price point the SOny’s available aren’t better? You need to spend more money for that better AF.
Most of us aren’t going to need a 600mm f4. (I could adapt the Canon one to the S5II though). So in the range of *normal* shooting I see both systems as having more options than most people need.
Obviously I can only look at this through my eyes. For me I’m drowning in options in L mount. If someone wants to point out where the system misses out besides what I’ve mentioned, I’m all ears.
It’s a bit of a lose-lose. Small camera with large lens means lousy balance and sore wrists. I’d personally prefer cameras big enough to hold properly and some smaller lighter lens options.
Actually, Nikon do this really well with their 1.8 primes and Z7/6 bodies. And they make a bigger body to go with the largest lenses. Hasselblad’s new lenses are smaller and lighter than the last generation. Unfortunately Sony is the worst offender but Canon and Fuji are doing their best to catch them……
It’s the damn vloggers again. They criticised cameras like the original S1 without looking at how it affects the cameras balance and handling to have tiny bodies and huge lenses. And unfortunately these muppets have influence. A bigger camera with a set of smaller lenses is lighter overall than a small body and multiple huge lenses.
flash wrote:
Is there though, apart from the above mentioned super teles, and a fisheye?
Sony has Tamron, which I freely admit is a big win for Sony. I’d have the 35-150 in a nano-second if I shot Sony now.
Sony has Viltrox, which I know little about.
They both have Sigma. But only L mount offers a teleconverter for the 150-600 and upcoming 60-600.
Panasonic has Leica. There’s nothing anywhere like the APO Summicrons. Probably the best set of matched primes ever made. At a unique price point yes!! But simply spectacular in every way. Leica’s 90-280 is still better than any Sony mid tele zoom. Actually I prefer all the Leica zooms to any of the E mount options. But for the 24-90 and 16-35 it’s not sharpness, it’s rendering, which is subjective. L mount colour is better though.
If I pick a 50mm as an example because it’s my preferred focal length, I have 6 native AF options across three brands. How much more choice do I need?
Now Sony does have APSC, which Leica have just dropped. Which is a shame because they had the best set of APSC lenses ever made, by some margin. The Leica CL is going to be collectable because of those lenses.
I agree that the Sony AF is still ahead, if I judge by the videos. I haven’t seen a S5II yet. But what if you really really dislike Sony cameras? Great tech. Lousy handling, balance and menus. Questionable weather sealing claims. The original S5 is a really good camera in the hand and I suspect the mk2 will be as well. I suppose the question is, is there all the glass I need in the L mount system and if there is do I choose a better made camera over better tech, especially if getting that tech will cost more money because at it’s price point the SOny’s available aren’t better? You need to spend more money for that better AF.
Most of us aren’t going to need a 600mm f4. (I could adapt the Canon one to the S5II though). So in the range of *normal* shooting I see both systems as having more options than most people need.
Obviously I can only look at this through my eyes. For me I’m drowning in options in L mount. If someone wants to point out where the system misses out besides what I’ve mentioned, I’m all ears.
Sony has a native TC and the 200-600 is superior to the Sigma zooms in the same range. Tamron has smaller and cheaper options. The recent GM lenses are class leading and have linear AF motors which are clearly superior to stepping motors. The 12-24 GM is unmatched. So is the 24/35/50/135 GM. Same for the recent GM II’s that make the huge Panasonic 2.8’s look silly in comparison considering the cost/size/IQ.
Then you have unique lenses like the 35-150 not available anywhere else. The little Samyang primes are gems. So are the Viltrox’s. And everything Sigma offers is in E-mount too outside of TC’s. But I paid $1400 for my 200-600 here. Just can’t beat it.
The most recent Sony’s with the newest processors and grip absolutely nail the ergos (for me), the menus are great and in use they are fantastic. They super fast, responsive and have great touchscreens. The tap to track is just magical. It sticks to everything with remarkable accuracy.
Yes we’re splitting hairs, but you’re getting the same sensors on Sony with more lenses, big - small - cheap - expensive - wide - long - aps-c - FF - high MP, class leading speed and so on: nobody can match what the E-mount offers.
L-mount is making strides, but it’s not there yet. I’m interested because I really like what Panasonic is doing. But the S5II and L-mount lenses aren’t enough to make me switch yet.
molson wrote:
True, but some people prefer quality over quantity.
What I hate about Sony video AF is that it defaults to continuous AF only, with no ability to control it if it loses the subject (which it frequently does with small birds). Panasonic gives you to options of S-AF, C-AF, or MF with back-button Near-AF or Far-AF over-ride.
I use bird eye AF all the time, if it can’t pick up the eye it defaults to subject detection. But it mostly just sticks to the eye and it’s incredibly accurate. This is with the a7sIII and a7IV. Older bodies aren’t as good. And it almost never loses focus. And you easily have the ability to control it with settings or just using lock on or tap to track.
If you can’t get it to focus on any subject, it’s just user error. I live in Florida, we have tons of birds - especially in the winter when they ditch crappy winter weather, never had issues tracking any of them.
For L-mount, if you like lightweight and don't need some specific things like reliable weather-sealing, the Sigma contemporary lenses (zooms and primes) are all fantastic, and already amongst the best on E-mount.
