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Archive 2022 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4

  
 
southwoodlaker
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p.1 #1 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


My pre-ordered X-T5 arrived and I played it couple of days. Compared to my X-T4, I did not see the X-T5 added too much value. So I returned it.

I tested with 56 1.2 (v1) and I feel the images were a bit soft for some reasons. Not sure it is the lens or the camera copy. The file size is huge (85 MB for RAW files)which I do not need (I do have GFX to handle the large prints or serious portraiture works).

The auto focus improved but not a big jump from X-T4. Still way behind Canon.

The X-T4 Flip LCD does not bother me at all even I do not shoot video. I actually like it. I can fold it in when I put it in bags and don't worry about getting scratches. I even feel X-T4 is more comfortable in my hand for some reasons, maybe just my hands get used to it.

So I am going to keep the X-T4 and use the almost $700 differences for a good lens.

Like to hear opinions from those who upgraded to X-T5 recently.



Nov 29, 2022 at 10:38 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #2 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


I think you are likely correct that the XT5 will not add much value... for those who already own the XT4.

There was a time perhaps 10-15 years ago when it was possible to see each now upgrade model as enough of an improvement that it might be worth replacing the previous version, at least for some people.

But the cameras have advanced to a level now where the (welcomed) incremental improvements of each new model generally do not warrant replacing the prior model. Yes, the new one is better... but not that much better.

It usually makes more sense to keep a camera through at least a couple upgrade cycles before replacing.

So, yes, even though the XT5 looks like a fine camera with some important and useful improvement... buying it will probably make more sense for someone who has no existing Fujifilm camera of its type or whose current Fujifilm camera is a couple of generations old.



Nov 29, 2022 at 11:18 AM
Sharona
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p.1 #3 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


I am very happy with my XT-3. I just wish it had IBIS. I sold my XH-1 and am having slight seller's remorse; perhaps I should have kept it and sold my XT3. (I was just trying to reduce my gear, I loved my XH-1.) Anyway, I've been shooting so little lately, I think I'll chill.

I did order the workplace an XH-2s, so I'll be excited to see how that camera works for us. I just hate that screen.... :-(



Nov 29, 2022 at 11:21 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #4 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


Sharona wrote:
I am very happy with my XT-3. I just wish it had IBIS. I sold my XH-1 and am having slight seller's remorse; perhaps I should have kept it and sold my XT3. (I was just trying to reduce my gear, I loved my XH-1.) Anyway, I've been shooting so little lately, I think I'll chill.

I did order the workplace an XH-2s, so I'll be excited to see how that camera works for us. I just hate that screen.... :-(


Since I use a 24MP XPro2, the step up to XT5 intrigues me, given improvements to things like AF, the addition of IBIS, and (to a lesser extent) the 40MP sensor.

I've decided that I _could_ move from the XPro-style body, but I'm holding off to see if any rumors emerge about the future of the XPro line. Part of me think that we may not see a XPro4 since there are now three other bodies at the high end — it is getting pretty crowed in that market segment!

Dan



Nov 29, 2022 at 11:42 AM
SSISteve
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p.1 #5 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


Obviously, the X-T5 gives you way more pixels which can be very helpful if you need to crop wildlife images. I have the X-T3 and would welcome the additional pixels but the most important reason I would want to buy the X-T5 is for an improved auto focus. For wildlife it would be huge to be able to lock on and track your subject. I was hoping the X-T5 would be close to the level of the af systems on Canon and Sony models and it sounds like it's not right now. I'm assuming Fuji can improve this with a software update.


Nov 29, 2022 at 11:42 AM
Makten
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p.1 #6 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


Why do people order stuff they don't need, then "play" with it, and return it? So that the store either has to sell a used camera or send it back to the manufacturer to make sure it's as good as new, and get new packaging. Isn't that kind of selfish?


Nov 29, 2022 at 12:47 PM
southwoodlaker
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p.1 #7 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


We normally know exactly what we need to order, but sometimes we order stuff we thought we need and the stuff did not meet the expectation and we return it. I think this is part of normal consumers purchasing process, especially with the current online shopping. I guess many people return stuff to Amazon and other online retailers due to all kind of reasons. Selfish is a bit harsh word in my opinion.


Nov 29, 2022 at 01:26 PM
Makten
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p.1 #8 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


southwoodlaker wrote:
We normally know exactly what we need to order, but sometimes we order stuff we thought we need and the stuff did not meet the expectation and we return it. I think this is part of normal consumers purchasing process, especially with the current online shopping. I guess many people return stuff to Amazon and other online retailers due to all kind of reasons. Selfish is a bit harsh word in my opinion.


Well, based on your initial post, it seems that you actually should have known that you didn't need (or even want) what the X-T5 offered over the X-T4. So in that case I think it was selfish, yes.

But yeah, it's the whole "normal consumers purchasing process" that is out of whack, I suppose.



Nov 29, 2022 at 01:38 PM
johnvanr
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p.1 #9 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


southwoodlaker wrote:
We normally know exactly what we need to order, but sometimes we order stuff we thought we need and the stuff did not meet the expectation and we return it. I think this is part of normal consumers purchasing process, especially with the current online shopping. I guess many people return stuff to Amazon and other online retailers due to all kind of reasons. Selfish is a bit harsh word in my opinion.


Different worlds. You’re in the US, the other poster is in Sweden.



Nov 29, 2022 at 01:40 PM
Sharona
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p.1 #10 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


gdanmitchell wrote:
Since I use a 24MP XPro2, the step up to XT5 intrigues me, given improvements to things like AF, the addition of IBIS, and (to a lesser extent) the 40MP sensor.

I've decided that I _could_ move from the XPro-style body, but I'm holding off to see if any rumors emerge about the future of the XPro line. Part of me think that we may not see a XPro4 since there are now three other bodies at the high end — it is getting pretty crowed in that market segment!

Dan


It is getting crowded. Dan - I think you would like the XT body. To me, it's much more balanced when I shoot. It is taking me time to get used to the rangefinder style of the X100V. But it's all down to what we're used to, I reckon. Having said that, the X-Pro line is very popular to a whole host of photographers, so l'd be surprised if they ditched it. HEY! Maybe they'll give it the "proper" tilt screen, and the 26 mp stacked sensor! Then I might consider switching!



Nov 29, 2022 at 01:43 PM
Makten
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p.1 #11 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


johnvanr wrote:
Different worlds. You’re in the US, the other poster is in Sweden.


It's the same world. I could do like him, and I bet many people here do too, but I don't. I just think it's immoral and strange to "play" with things you don't need and that you don't intend to keep.



Nov 29, 2022 at 01:48 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #12 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


Makten wrote:
Why do people order stuff they don't need, then "play" with it, and return it? So that the store either has to sell a used camera or send it back to the manufacturer to make sure it's as good as new, and get new packaging. Isn't that kind of selfish?


These days, with the ability to rent a camera to try it out, it seems a bit unethical to me to order a camera that you aren't pretty sure you want to buy just to see if you like it.

If you are pretty darned sure that, say, the XT5 is for you and you pay for it and find out that something is wrong with it, that's s different thing.

Of course, perhaps the camera stores are fine with selling an opened box at a slightly-lower-than-retail price, since they might be willing to sell the new copy for a discount, too.

But still, this intent to try and return seems a bit questionable to me, too.

I would not go so far as to call this "immoral," but I do think that there are some serous ethical questions to think about. (One, of course, is whether those who are happy to play with a camera for a few days and send it back a) seriously planned to buy it when they had it shipped, b) considered the rental option if not, and c) would pay full list for an open box camera themselves.)

- - -

Sharona wrote:
It is getting crowded. Dan - I think you would like the XT body. To me, it's much more balanced when I shoot. It is taking me time to get used to the rangefinder style of the X100V. But it's all down to what we're used to, I reckon. Having said that, the X-Pro line is very popular to a whole host of photographers, so l'd be surprised if they ditched it. HEY! Maybe they'll give it the "proper" tilt screen, and the 26 mp stacked sensor! Then I might consider switching!


We seem to be on largely the same page here.

I think the XPro concept was even more popular initially back when the EVFs were not as good — the resolution and latency issues were more problematic, and the OVF didn't have those problems at all.

In addition, we just weren't as used to working with EVF displays. When I started using the XPro2 I shot in OVF mode by default, only switching to EVF in particular situations where I needed it — when it was important to see exact frame boundaries or when shooting at night. But over time I've found myself naturally tending to use the EVF more often, and I recently realized that I had, without really thinking about it, switched to treating the EVF as the default and the OVF as the special case option.

I'm quite sure that I'd like the XT5 body. While I have not held one yet, its overall size and weight aren't that much different than the XPro2, though the larger eyepiece area and the larger grip might entail some changes in how I carry it for things like travel. But at this point I am certain that I would be fine with a EVF-only camera. (It would not be the first such camera I've used.)

So, if a XPro4 is not forthcoming OR if one comes out that continues the trends of the XPro 3 rather than going back to the concepts of the XPro2... I'm pretty sure that I'll end up with the XT5 and be happy with it.

Edited on Nov 29, 2022 at 02:10 PM · View previous versions



Nov 29, 2022 at 02:01 PM
HS-LD
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p.1 #13 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


We reached peak camera around 5-10 years ago. At this point the new releases are just filling in some gaps.

For example, the video AF in the new Fuji models are as good as Sony now. Eye tracking is 100% and doesn't jump around. As a solo content creator for my YT channel this is a big deal for me. The XT4 was a manual focus only camera in solo video mode.

If you don't have that specific need, then you wouldn't even notice.

There's other things that are much improved as well, but again, if you don't have those very specific needs, you won't notice.



Nov 29, 2022 at 02:36 PM
johnvanr
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p.1 #14 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


Makten wrote:
It's the same world. I could do like him, and I bet many people here do too, but I don't. I just think it's immoral and strange to "play" with things you don't need and that you don't intend to keep.


Well, I don’t know about Sweden, but I’m from Holland and returning an item that’s otherwise perfectly fine is much harder than here in the US. And here I’ve actually been told by retailers to order various things and see what works and send the rest back. Can’t imagine that happening in Holland (or Switzerland, Cyprus and Austria, where I’ve also lived).

Distances are also longer here. In my case, I can get to B&H in about an hour, but many don’t have the opportunity to try things easily.

So, yes, different worlds.

Do people abuse that system? Sure. Do I? No. I rent or buy used if I’m not sure, unless the retailer tells me the only way to find out what works is to order a bunch…



Nov 29, 2022 at 03:09 PM
mdude85
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p.1 #15 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


Makten wrote:
Well, based on your initial post, it seems that you actually should have known that you didn't need (or even want) what the X-T5 offered over the X-T4. So in that case I think it was selfish, yes.

But yeah, it's the whole "normal consumers purchasing process" that is out of whack, I suppose.


It's the age we live in now. But it's socially acceptable to do so, enabled by companies, and expected by consumers. So I blame the individual, and not blame them at the same time.

If people don't see the tremendous waste created in this system, they don't think about it. And even if they see it, they probably don't care enough to change their behavior.

At least it's not a market like clothes where most returned items just get tossed in a landfill or burned.



Nov 29, 2022 at 03:22 PM
southwoodlaker
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p.1 #16 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


I do weddings and I used to use two cameras. I am trying to switch from Canon back to Fuji and plan to add X-T5 to my current X-T4 system. I did not see X-T5 added $700 value to me so I returned it and try to save the money for adding another X-T4 or a lens.

I have ordered over $50K camera and lighting gears from BH in the past years and only returned at the most 2 or 3 items due to different reasons. You think I am a "selfish" "immoral" "unethical" customer?



Nov 29, 2022 at 03:45 PM
Lumens1
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p.1 #17 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


I just upgraded from an XT-3 to the XT-5. On the outside I see no (major) difference in the two cameras! In fact I should have bought a silver one so I could tell one from the other!!

The major differences are IBIS, AF improvements, and the increase in resolution. I shoot handheld a lot so the IBIS is invaluable and makes the upgrade worthwhile. I need to learn how to use the faster AF but it is also very much worth the upgrade. The 40MP however is not that exciting - Yes I can crop more but other than that, it's just not exciting. I may have prefered an XT-5s with the speedier sensor rather than more resolution.

Moving from an XT-4 that already has IBIS the upgrade really would not be that exciting. Improved AF is nice but mostly only needed for wildlife & sports - so might not be needed. For me, it is VERY nice to have. I do shoot wildlife & sports on occassion. But if not shooting wildlife & sports I can understand returning the XT-5. More thought could have gone into ordering in the first place, but then we ALL suffer from GAS!!



Nov 29, 2022 at 04:05 PM
flash
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p.1 #18 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


gdanmitchell wrote:
Since I use a 24MP XPro2, the step up to XT5 intrigues me, given improvements to things like AF, the addition of IBIS, and (to a lesser extent) the 40MP sensor.

I've decided that I _could_ move from the XPro-style body, but I'm holding off to see if any rumors emerge about the future of the XPro line. Part of me think that we may not see a XPro4 since there are now three other bodies at the high end — it is getting pretty crowed in that market segment!

Dan


Going a bit off topic. Appologies.

Dan. I LOVE the XPro style of camera (and Leica M) but it's becoming less usable for me because the lenses have grown a bit. The XT is even close to being too small with some of the new primes. Especially the faster ones.

I still have the original 35mm 1.4 and 56mm APD plus the new versions. I much prefer the size and fit of the older lenses but there's no denying that the optics on the newer lenses has improved a lot. And now wer'e playing with 40MP that improvement helps even more. Even the 30mm macro is a bit bigger than I thought it might be.

Lenses are growing (except bizzarrely for Hasselblad where they're getting samller and faster??). 24x36mm fast glass is getting to obscene sizes (thanks for starting that trend Zeiss...). Optics are getting better with more detail from even lower resolution sensors and less aberations. It's all great. But it does affect balance.

I can't stand an unbalanced camera. One of my main reasons for not shooting Sony. Huge lenses on tiny bodies leads to hand/wrist fatigue and compromised handling. The old 56 was already close to the limit on the XPro2 for me. I don't like the new on on it at all. It's now like that on the XT5. It's the reason I have the XT5 and XH2. The XH2 is for the bigger lenses like the zooms and maybe even the 56mm and 90.

I hope Fuji do make an XPro4. I'm just not sure I'll buy all the lovely f2 primes to make it usable, for me. They're certainly not better than the f2 glass I already have on my M11 and all the XPro would offer is AF and IBIS. Which I only need some of the time. I'll probably have to spend some time in store (no easy returns here... wow, I linked to the topic. ) to see if the camera works with the lenses I want to use on it. Maybe the optional grip will make it better. But for now the XT5 does work and leaves me wanting for little.

Gordon



Nov 29, 2022 at 04:18 PM
flash
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p.1 #19 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


Back on topic...

All the things the OP mentioned, added together were enough for me to upgrade, although I'm ambivalent about the size. It looks pretty but it's a modest reduction. I had no issues with the XT4. I like it's size. Not going to affect the overall system much at all.

I do think the AF has improved. A lot for moving subjects and eye detection. I vastly prefer the tri flip screen and the 40MP is important as I print, large and often.

The changes that Fuji made were almost exactly what I would have asked for in a questionare. It's removed the frustrations I had with the XT4 and while NOT an objectively better camera, it is better for me.

I was going to keep my XT4 as a backup. I have a few trips next year and having a backup will be important for them. But I like the XT5 enough that I got a second one (sliver this time) and will be selling on the XT4 and XT3, plus a few of the older lenses. The silver is pretty....

I like the XH2/XT5 combo enough that I've made a few other decisions. My Nikon Z (Z7) mount stuff will go. It has no advantages now and I'm not lugging a Z9 around. Those days are over. I'm torn on my L mount gear. They are objectively better, especially the APO Summicron primes, but I'm not sure I'll lug around the extra size or weight. And I have the XCD lenses for my 'blads, which are as good.

I'm keeping my M11. I was looking at waiting for an XPro4 but there's nothing like the APO f2 lenses I have for the M (see above post) and the Fuji lenses are getting *slightly* too big for an XPro body. Other than that 24x36 format has no real use for me, at the moment. I'm really liking the 150-600's reach in APSC. I'm enjoying the slightly faster shutter speed or lower ISO with a bit more DoF for general shooting from the smaller sensor. If I need more sensor I have that in 33x44.

The XT5 completes my kit for me. I won't say I have everything I want (I embrace the GAS) but it does mean I can carry and XT5 with a couple of prime in place of my M11 and not feel like I'm missing much (I'll be gaining a few things as well). I like the XH2 but the XT5 is the camera I was hoping Fuji would make.

Gordon



Nov 29, 2022 at 04:51 PM
dave unwin
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p.1 #20 · I returned the X-T5 and kept the X-T4


mdude85 wrote:
It's the age we live in now. But it's socially acceptable to do so, enabled by companies, and expected by consumers. So I blame the individual, and not blame them at the same time.

If people don't see the tremendous waste created in this system, they don't think about it. And even if they see it, they probably don't care enough to change their behavior.

At least it's not a market like clothes where most returned items just get tossed in a landfill or burned.


In Australia at least, camera retailers don't offer a no questions asked return policy. If it's opened there would typically be a restocking fee of 20% or so if they'd take it at all. It certainly does seem like an unusual concept for high $ items like cameras.



Nov 29, 2022 at 04:53 PM
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