p.8 #1 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
retrofocus wrote:
This is a different topic now, but I eluded to this a few years back when I posted if Europe is still safe for photographers. My answer from own experience: No, it is not. Since a few years I am not taking my Leica gear with me on trips there anymore. And my gear is not even $8K. But robberies happen everywhere even in Germany now and it is too risky for me to lug around high value gear there. I know it is sort of sad that I am not using my favorite gear there as often as I would like. But I can't change the reality that things have changed. I simply adapt and make the best of it. ...Show more →
Is Europe still safe for photographers? I don't know...which of the 40+ countries are you talking about. Are roberries happening everywhere in Germany? A quick google finds some stats showing it is half the USA rate. Then again, the most touristy place in Berlin is probably more dangerous than mansion row in Rhode Island. Just like downtown Detroit is more dangerous than some little village in Germany.
I've walked with my Leica on my side in Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and a few other countries most people would freak out in. I wouldn't take my camera in some parts of London 30 minutes away from home at night though. In the end, what is the point of owning something if you are too worried you'll lose it/damage it. I had a Rollei 2.8FX. I sold it purely because I was too worried about damaging it. Which in hindsight was a stupid thing to do given how much my current digi M setup costs. Sadly, selling said digi M setup today wouldn't get me enough money to buy that FX back! Go figure.
p.8 #2 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
As someone who lives in Germany and photographs here, I would say yes, very safe. I think you’d have to be in the wrong place at the wrong time for something to happen - same as most safe places.
I’m from the UK, and I go there extensively and also photograph there. Also, never a problem - it just seems very safe.
Spain also seems very safe, and I travel there a lot too. And France, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Ireland. Big cities in Italy maybe a little more dodgy.
My sense of the US is that it is considerably less safe. So if you feel ok there, then Europe is easy. But, of course, things can happen anywhere.
p.8 #3 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
airfrogusmc wrote:
I wouldn't own it if I were afraid to take on the streets and use it.
It's subjective preference - where one feels comfortable with, another one doesn't. I am shooting back in Germany often with an older Canon DSLR and simple EF lens and also never had an issue. For film, I am using there a Rollei 35 for example which has the advantage of being small and inconspicuous. But as I said, no longer using my Leica gear out on the streets in Germany - no-no for me at least, the risk has become too high there. I feel very comfortable doing it in the US though - other than from bad city areas where I wouldn't head to anyway, I feel much more safe here than back in my home country Germany now.
p.8 #4 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
wolfloid wrote:
As someone who lives in Germany and photographs here, I would say yes, very safe. I think you’d have to be in the wrong place at the wrong time for something to happen - same as most safe places.
I’m from the UK, and I go there extensively and also photograph there. Also, never a problem - it just seems very safe.
Spain also seems very safe, and I travel there a lot too. And France, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Ireland. Big cities in Italy maybe a little more dodgy.
My sense of the US is that it is considerably less safe. So if you feel ok there, then Europe is easy. But, of course, things can happen anywhere....Show more →
I disagree from my experience and originally coming from Germany, too. I was nearly robbed twice there on vacation trips. Both times in smaller suburban towns which were considered 100% safe 10 years ago. This is no longer the case. I remained unharmed because I was simply the faster runner when I was badly approached. Look at daily police reports in Germany and you know what is going on there. I am sort of glad not to live there anymore as sad as it might sound.
p.8 #5 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
I'm a photogrpaher and a camera is the tool I use to create. And why would I leave the tool that best matches the way I see and work at home when I am out creating? That doesn't and shouldn't make any sense for anyone. Fear will never keep me from creating. Again insure your gear and just go make photogrpahs.
BTW I got a lot more attention shooting with my Canons than I ever get wth my Leicas. Moist poeple that aren't photogrpahers do not know what they are. They usually think they are film cameras and not worth the money say a Canon DSLR or a Nikon DSLR. So I would say you are more at risk with a big DSLR that with a Leica M.
Why own something like a Leica M which is the perfect street camera if you are not going to use it? Might as well just be a collector then. Fear will have you put it on a shelf look at it? Not me.....
p.8 #7 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
With watches, and smart phones I think that brand is important when a thief is picking a target. With cameras it is likely form factor, as brand. Large, ICL cameras and lenses drawing the most attention. Although knowledgeable thieves will probably be drawn to high value items in all categories. From the thief's perspective most important I suspect is opportunity.
As always environmental and situational awareness is the best defense. Don't move, or position yourself in vulnerable ways. Keep an eye on those around you. Understand that person density is important on both ends of the spectrum. Do your best to avoid crowds so dense as to cause contact with strangers. Be extra alert when that cannot be avoided, like getting on and off trains, entering buildings, and things like that. It is also higher risk when people density is very low. You are more vulnerable when you are out walking alone in empty areas, or at odd times.
For me it comes down to first presenting as limited as possible opportunities to the thief. I find that the Leica M system helps with this due to its small form factor. It doesn't require a large camera bag when out shooting. It is easy to wear the strap and camera under an appropriate jacket for the conditions. A couple of lenses easily fit in the pockets. Unless I am actively shooting, the camera isn't even visible when out walking. Getting to it under the jacket is easy for me, while being more difficult for the thief. There are likely easier targets around.
Secondly, I mitigate the risks with appropriate insurance. My equipment is covered by "World Wide All Risk" insurance. Therefore I feel free to take my equipment anywhere, at any time. I also do not feel the need to risk personal harm defending it. I use it without worry of crime, accident, environmental, or other loss. I paid good money for it. I want it to be an enjoyable asset to use. Such insurance is worth the surprising low premiums just based on peace of mind enhancing my shooting experiences.
p.8 #8 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
Couple of replies here to points raised in comments after my last one. Even a DSLR is more bulky than a rangefinder (or other MLC), it creates much less attention from my experience as long as you don't mount a longer white lens on it. Many amateurs use simpler DSLR-type cameras which are not seen as being of high value anymore. In Germany, the brand name Leica is a lot more recognized than it is for example in the US where most haven't even heard of this brand. The two times I mentioned where I had bad experiences on the street back in Germany, the criminals were simply after money - I don't think they were after a specific camera gear. But they would have certainly taken what they got if successful. Yes, it is a limitation by not feeling comfortable to use my most favorite M gear there anymore. It is good to have tool/gear choices though - I only use cheaper camera gear stuff there. It still works for me - not ideal but best compromise of feeling more safe and still capturing what I want most of the time.
Insurance was also a few times discussed in this forum with a wide variety of opinions about. It depends if being a professional photographer or not minding to pay hundreds of dollars or more each year for a camera gear insurance. But even in case of full loss and insurance paying mostly for it, it often does not reimburse for a unique lens you used which is now very hard to get on the used market for example. It might work quite well for brand new gear which can be simply reordered. Even with insurance, the personal risk of robbery/thievery is still the same. It might give peace of mind in case something is lost but won't compensate for any personal harm encountered. Therefore at least for me I try to be as inconspicuous in Germany as possible with my photography. And higher value Leica gear doesn't fit the picture here for me. I applaud everyone doing it though - but IMO this has become a risky gamble in Germany at least judging from my own experience.
p.8 #9 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
retrofocus wrote:
at least judging from my own experience.
Extrapolating from your experience when everybody else here has a very different one is not really convincing.
As we said, respecting some basic rules and situation awareness are key.
Here, you do not listen to anybody and you think you are always right even when talking about things you know nothing about.
If you behave the same in real life, it is not surprising that you have bad experiences other avoid easily.
And this is my last message about it because discussions with someone who "believes something is a general rule because it happened to him" are going nowhere.
p.8 #10 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
I'm not sure what your point is. If everyone's experience is not to be taken seriously as you suggest, what's the point of posting anything unless you only want to hear what you like?
pmeheut wrote:
Extrapolating from your experience when everybody else here has a very different one is not really convincing.
As we said, respecting some basic rules and situation awareness are key.
Here, you do not listen to anybody and you think you are always right even when talking about things you know nothing about.
If you behave the same in real life, it is not surprising that you have bad experiences other avoid easily.
And this is my last message about it because discussions with someone who "believes something is a general rule because it happened to him" are going nowhere.
p.8 #11 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
It boils down to life is risky. Always has been. Do you live in fear or do you live life to its fullest. I know what I've always picked to do. And I buy photography equipment to use. Not to sit on a shelf or in a drawer becasue it might get stolen or I might get mugged. That could happen anyway. I might get hit by a bus or get into a car accident or die of a heart attack. We are all going ot die sometime. We are born and we will die. What's important is what we do inbetween those times. We can live or we can be scared and let that fear rule us.
p.8 #12 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
I know I'm a bit late to this discussion, but I thought I'd weigh. I have photographed extensively in several cities in the US with cameras ranging from 35mm (film and digital) to 4x5.
I did a 10 year project depicting the entire length of the Chicago River system which took me to many many neighborhoods ranging from very affluent to decidedly underprivileged. I never had an issue with anyone. I was only greeted with curiosity and interest, more so in the less wealthy areas. I was invited more than once to share a bottle of wine under the bridge by unhoused people.
I also did a project in partnership with Loyola University on the uses and ramifications of Eminent Domain. I worked in Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles, Detroit, and some smaller towns scattered about. Again, with never a problem.
I know that bad things happen—they can happen anywhere at any time. I say go out and make photographs. I agree with airfrogusmc, life is too short. But be careful and stay aware of your surroundings
p.8 #13 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
disfromage wrote:
I did a 10 year project depicting the entire length of the Chicago River system which took me to many many neighborhoods ranging from very affluent to decidedly underprivileged. I never had an issue with anyone. I was only greeted with curiosity and interest, more so in the less wealthy areas. I was invited more than once to share a bottle of wine under the bridge by unhoused people.
This project sounds amazing. Would you happen to have these photos online to share?
p.8 #14 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
airfrogusmc wrote:
It boils down to life is risky. Always has been. Do you live in fear or do you live life to its fullest. I know what I've always picked to do. And I buy photography equipment to use. Not to sit on a shelf or in a drawer becasue it might get stolen or I might get mugged. That could happen anyway. I might get hit by a bus or get into a car accident or die of a heart attack. We are all going ot die sometime. We are born and we will die. What's important is what we do inbetween those times. We can live or we can be scared and let that fear rule us. ...Show more →
A few years ago I had a group of 7 friends I have known and traveled with for decades, attacked in one of my favorite places, on a road we all traveled frequently. Of the 7, 6 were killed. A real tragedy in my life. Not the first time something like this has happened, but this for sure was the worst. Every so often we would suffer deaths or life altering injuries among friends and competators in my sports of auto racing, surfing, flying, or diving. One must accept such risks in life as airfrogusmc has said. We can't let our lives be ruled and limited by fear.
Risk is real. I have spent the last 5 Months having surgeries, and working hard on rehab and recovery. Thank God for my photography hobby getting me out and active even if in a walker. I had another surgery yesterday to replace all the lost teeth and repair the broken ones. I have at least one more big surgery on my left leg coming up in December. I endure this with one goal in mind. To get back out there and participate in life as fully as possible again. In the context of what can happen, the loss of a few tens of thousands in camera gear is fairly trivial. Just my new teeth yesterday cost me over 30K.
Live life fully for we will all be dead soon. Then we will be dead a long time.
p.8 #15 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
1bwana1 wrote:
A few years ago I had a group of 7 friends I have known and traveled with attacked in one of my favorite places on a road we all traveled frequently. Of the 7, 6 were killed. A real tragedy in my life. Not the first time something like this has happened, but this for sure was the worst. Every so often we would suffer deaths or life altering injuries among friends and competators in my sports of auto racing, surfing, flying, or diving. One must accept such risks in life as airfrogusmc has said. We can't let our lives be ruled by fear.
Risk is real. I have spent the last 5 Months having surgeries and working hard on rehab and recovery. Had another surgery yesterday to replace all the lost teeth. I have at least one more big one coming up in December. I endure this with one goal in mind. To get back out there and participate in life as fully as possible again. In the context of what can happen, the loss of a few tens of thousands in camera gear is fairly trivial. Just my new teeth yesterday cost me over 30K. ...Show more →
Life is risk mitigation - and each of us has a different level of comfort here. Some like to risk more, don't think about, don't care if thousands of camera gear is stolen or harm caused. I am not this kind of person - it is this simple. I always plan ahead, have always practiced a low risk attitude. It does not always protect - as seen in the two examples I mentioned. Here I underestimated the risk how much Germany and the area I stayed in has changed in a matter of few years. I know better now. Of course still going out and shooting with my Leica Ms often - but not always and in all areas I visit.
p.8 #16 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
disfromage wrote:
I know I'm a bit late to this discussion, but I thought I'd weigh. I have photographed extensively in several cities in the US with cameras ranging from 35mm (film and digital) to 4x5.
I did a 10 year project depicting the entire length of the Chicago River system which took me to many many neighborhoods ranging from very affluent to decidedly underprivileged. I never had an issue with anyone. I was only greeted with curiosity and interest, more so in the less wealthy areas. I was invited more than once to share a bottle of wine under the bridge by unhoused people.
I also did a project in partnership with Loyola University on the uses and ramifications of Eminent Domain. I worked in Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles, Detroit, and some smaller towns scattered about. Again, with never a problem.
I know that bad things happen—they can happen anywhere at any time. I say go out and make photographs. I agree with airfrogusmc, life is too short. But be careful and stay aware of your surroundings...Show more →
I too would love to see the images from this project. Sounds very interesting.
p.8 #17 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
retrofocus wrote:
Life is risk mitigation - and each of us has a different level of comfort here. Some like to risk more, don't think about, don't care if thousands of camera gear is stolen or harm caused. I am not this kind of person - it is this simple. I always plan ahead, have always practiced a low risk attitude. It does not always protect - as seen in the two examples I mentioned. Here I underestimated the risk how much Germany and the area I stayed in has changed in a matter of few years. I know better now. Of course still going out and shooting with my Leica Ms often - but not always and in all areas I visit. ...Show more →
I understand what you are saying, and agree that we must each set our own tolerance for risk. Even then it is often not in our hands. Stuff happens.
There are areas in Africa that I used to enjoy very much, that I no longer am able to go to due to the danger. Odds of getting out are currently functionally zero. So, at my own level I have made the same decision as you have.
p.8 #18 · Will Leica bring the M6 film camera back to life?
I'm afraid I don't have these images online at the moment. I am in the process of revamping my web presence and have taken them down for the time being. Here is an article from when my book was published which is a taste of the entire work:
You can also go to rwasserman.com and see a series I recently did on cell phone towers as well as a document of the historical Pullman neighborhood in Chicago.
