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Archive 2022 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)

  
 
Sy Sez
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p.15 #1 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


There are those with the “fanboy” mentality, that would defend Canon regardless of the circumstances, with nonsensible, lame-brain arguments that buyers should be satisfied that “work-arounds” like adapting 3rd party EF lenses would be equal to 3rd party dedicated RF lenses.

The “bottom line” is that of the big three Camera makers, two will offer buyers many options, and the biggest – Canon, little to none.

In the recent past if any aspiring photographer had asked me to recommend a Camera system, it would have been Canon without hesitation. That’s no longer the case, as I feel I would be doing them a disservice.

I started with a Canon ELAN 7 and a single Tamron “full-range” lens prior to going all Canon.

I recently sold all of my EF gear for an R5, and three RF lenses; but if I knew then what I know now, as much as I like my R5 and RF lenses, I’d likely be leaning toward a NIKON Z9, and bidding farewell to Canon.



Sep 09, 2022 at 11:17 AM
jwolfe
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p.15 #2 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


Well then enlighten us - list your current gear and the RF gear you've shot.

Here I will go first:

2x Nikon D500
Nikon 16-80mm
Nikon 70-300mm af-p VR
Nikon 500mm pf
Nikon 1.4x
Nikon 1.7x
2x Nikon strobes
Nikon zfc
Nikon ftz
Incoming: Nikon 18-140 z, Nikon 50mm 1.8z, Nikon 85mm 1.8z

Previously I had a small Sony kit as a test. I've also shot the A9 with the 200-600mm

Previously I had a full Olympus kit.

Prior to the that I've shot every Nikon pro DSLR, I also had a full Canon sports kit including a 400mm 2.8, 2x 1D mkiiN's. I've shot every version of the 5D, the 1D series up to the 1DX and various small Canon bodies. I've also shot everything from a 17-40 to a 600mm f4 IS.

I've also shot the R5 with the 100-500mm as a test.

So tell me what you have and what your mirrorless experience is since you seem to know everything.

AmbientMike wrote:
Well, let's see. In addition to being told I don't know anything in this thread, more than once, (wasn't true either time) and being told I've never posted photos on FM, now I'm being told I've never shot mirrorless. What next? Let's see how stupid it can get from here. I'd be curious how many condescending mirrorless proponents have actually shot mirrorless more than I have.

But if you want to shoot a $1300, f/6.7, 4.1 lb 100-500 probably having no IS, all the while complaining about Canon's lack of options, weight and budget concerns even though the $600 1.4
...Show more




Sep 09, 2022 at 11:33 AM
AmbientMike
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p.15 #3 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


jwolfe wrote:
Well then enlighten us - list your current gear and the RF gear you've shot.

Here I will go first:

2x Nikon D500
Nikon 16-80mm
Nikon 70-300mm af-p VR
Nikon 500mm pf
Nikon 1.4x
Nikon 1.7x
2x Nikon strobes
Nikon zfc
Nikon ftz
Incoming: Nikon 18-140 z, Nikon 50mm 1.8z, Nikon 85mm 1.8z

Previously I had a small Sony kit as a test. I've also shot the A9 with the 200-600mm

Previously I had a full Olympus kit.

Prior to the that I've shot every Nikon pro DSLR, I also had a full Canon sports kit including a 400mm 2.8, 2x 1D mkiiN's. I've shot every version of the 5D, the 1D series up
...Show more

And yet, you still say this stuff that makes no sense. Then since you can't attack the points I actually made you have to attack on the gear I bought. More of an ad hominem attack




Edited on Sep 09, 2022 at 11:59 AM · View previous versions



Sep 09, 2022 at 11:56 AM
jwolfe
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p.15 #4 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


That’s what I thought. You got nothin. Why don’t you go sit in a corner and let the adults talk.

AmbientMike wrote:
You say this stuff that makes no sense. Then since you can't attack the points I actually made you have to attack on the gear I bought.





Sep 09, 2022 at 11:59 AM
AmbientMike
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p.15 #5 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)




jwolfe wrote:
That’s what I thought. You got nothin. Why don’t you go sit in a corner and let the adults talk.



Yes, I've posted hundreds of photos on here using "nothing." How about you?

But if you've bought so much stuff, you should have realized $2800 for a 100-500 really isn't out of line with current prices.



Sep 09, 2022 at 12:05 PM
Jman13
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p.15 #6 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


AmbientMike wrote:
Well, let's see. In addition to being told I don't know anything in this thread, more than once, (wasn't true either time) and being told I've never posted photos on FM, now I'm being told I've never shot mirrorless. What next? Let's see how stupid it can get from here. I'd be curious how many condescending mirrorless proponents have actually shot mirrorless more than I have.

But if you want to shoot a $1300, f/6.7, 4.1 lb 100-500 probably having no IS, all the while complaining about Canon's lack of options, weight and budget concerns even though the $600 1.4
...Show more

I would place a significant amount of money that I have more mirrorless experience than you. I began shooting mirrorless full time in 2010, having owned Micro 4/3, Fujifilm X, Sony FE and APS-C and Canon RF. I run a reviews site where I've reviewed over 100 mirrorless lenses from four difference systems. I have 5 years of experience with Sony FE, which I shot as my primary kit from 2015 until early 2021. I added Canon RF in mid 2020, and switched fully in January 2021.

What do you currently shoot with? Have you ever shot with Sony? (And I don't mean for a few hours.)



Sep 09, 2022 at 12:09 PM
AmbientMike
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p.15 #7 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


Jman13 wrote:
I would place a significant amount of money that I have more mirrorless experience than you. I began shooting mirrorless full time in 2010, having owned Micro 4/3, Fujifilm X, Sony FE and APS-C and Canon RF. I run a reviews site where I've reviewed over 100 mirrorless lenses from four difference systems. I have 5 years of experience with Sony FE, which I shot as my primary kit from 2015 until early 2021. I added Canon RF in mid 2020, and switched fully in January 2021.

What do you currently shoot with? Have you ever shot with Sony? (And
...Show more

It looks like I've got about 100k in the GH1 I wore out. You've owned more stuff, but Idk if you've shot more or not

I'm not buying a Sony at this time. Nope. Sick of hearing about it on here.

If you are trying to say I don't know anything because you have more expensive gear than I do (exactly what you seem to be saying) you are wrong. And no, I'm not interested in the latest tech necessarily, either



Sep 09, 2022 at 12:18 PM
Jman13
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p.15 #8 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


AmbientMike wrote:
It looks like I've got about 100k in the GH1 I wore out. You've owned more stuff, but Idk if you've shot more or not

I'm not buying a Sony at this time. Nope. Sick of hearing about it on here.

If you are trying to say I don't know anything because you have more expensive gear than I do (exactly what you seem to be saying) you are wrong. And no, I'm not interested in the latest tech necessarily, either


No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that you have multiple people over multiple threads with much more recent mirrorless experience than you, who actually have first hand knowledge of the gear in question, and that perhaps experience with a 12 year old body and early m4/3 lenses maybe don't provide quite as much insight into the discussion as you think.

Number of photos mean little...I shoot about 25,000 a year, and have since about 2004, but I also only shoot a small amount of wildlife and I don't shoot any sports, both of which will raise a shutter count rather high without correlation directly with experience. I shoot mostly landscape and architecture, so a typical shoot will yield 50 to 100 images in a couple of hours. When I shoot birds, which I do only very occasionally, I'll rattle off 400 frames in 15-20 minutes.

In any case, I don't doubt you have experience as a photographer, but you don't have experience between the two systems in question, yet you speak as an authority on both, while dismissing the first hand experience of those who do. That's the issue. If this were a discussion on composition, technique, tips on setup, light, etc, then what gear you've used makes little difference. I've made great images with everything from film to cheap compacts and cell phones to 60MP digital, etc...it's not really about that. But this is a discussion on the strengths between mirrorless systems and the impacts that Canon's decisions with regards to third party mirrorless lenses have...and your insight is fine, but it's the dismissiveness and authority you project without a whole lot of standing on the issue.



Sep 09, 2022 at 12:58 PM
EB-1
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p.15 #9 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


I thought this was the Canon forum It's one thing to want 3rd party lenses on a Canon, but disruptive trying to sell Nikon, Sony, etc. here. There are separate forums for that. It's like the Mustang vs. Camaro forums. The Mustang user should not go to the Camaro forum and tell them that pushrod engines suck.

If it makes any difference, I do buy Nikon, Canon, and Sony gear and am often dissatisfied with ALL of them.

EBH



Sep 09, 2022 at 01:59 PM
AmbientMike
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p.15 #10 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)



EB-1 wrote:
I thought this was the Canon forum It's one thing to want 3rd party lenses on a Canon, but disruptive trying to sell Nikon, Sony, etc. here. There are separate forums for that. It's like the Mustang vs. Camaro forums. The Mustang user should not go to the Camaro forum and tell them that pushrod engines suck.

If it makes any difference, I do buy Nikon, Canon, and Sony gear and am often dissatisfied with ALL of them.

EBH


Exactly. All camera systems have their advantages and disadvantages.

Should I go to the Nikon board and tell them their 500/5.6 stink and are too expensive vs the 100-500? Interestingly there's the same amount of difference in the price between 500pf and 100-500 as 100-500 and 200-600.

And if I don't say something people are more than happy to push these primes and ignore all Canon's advantages. It'll be a Sony fest on the Canon board. In spite of the fact that 3 light primes might turn out to be heavier & more expensive than the industry leading 24-105. Which I'd probably prefer anyway



Sep 09, 2022 at 02:36 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.15 #11 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


Well this news made me go out and buy two viltrox RF items due to their low cost, good results, and likely a future inability to get these. I have no plans on buying the very expensive RF lenses in the future. It’s unfortunate canon is going this route.


Sep 09, 2022 at 03:22 PM
AmbientMike
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p.15 #12 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


Jman13 wrote:
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that you have multiple people over multiple threads with much more recent mirrorless experience than you, who actually have first hand knowledge of the gear in question, and that perhaps experience with a 12 year old body and early m4/3 lenses maybe don't provide quite as much insight into the discussion as you think.

Number of photos mean little...I shoot about 25,000 a year, and have since about 2004, but I also only shoot a small amount of wildlife and I don't shoot any sports, both of which will raise
...Show more

I thought mirrorless was so pure and holy, that the date of manufacture didn't matter. Trust me, you couldn't blast a lot of photos off using the GH1. But you can't on the Leica M6 either, and I adapted my m39 lenses at times.

I don't own the 200-600. You're right. But I carried the 300/2.8 60B Tamron on mirrorless about a year. Adaptall-2.com lists it as 4.5 lbs (probably plus mount.) B&H site lists 200-600 at more than that. If you think 4.5+ lbs is light, I have news for you. Especially vs 3 lb lens like 100-500.

If you truly want lightweight inexpensive gear: 55-250. Under a lb and 100-400 equivalent. It is 5.6 at the long end. I usually stop it to 7.1 or a bit more. Very commonly used aperture for me. So, yes, I am extremely familiar with these apertures on a tele, and if someone says 5.6 lens is great, even using a tc at f/8, and the 7.1 completely inadequate : baloney. For the most part. And I am probably going to comment on it. Regardless of how much someone spent.



Sep 09, 2022 at 03:27 PM
Gochugogi
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p.15 #13 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


Ah hoh lotta chest beatin' goin' down heah!


Sep 09, 2022 at 07:04 PM
tr1957
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p.15 #14 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


I expect many R buyers assumed the camera world to evolve as it did when the EF mount was introduced, with multiple companies offering compatible lenses relatively quickly.

Canon has gaps in their lens lineup that thrid party lenses could help fill (e.g. stabilized 50mm for the non-IBIS bodies).

While adapters are fine, the newest lens designs will be for mirrorless systems, which cannot be adapted to RF.

More choices is better than fewer choices.



Sep 09, 2022 at 10:08 PM
comotionfilms
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p.15 #15 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


I can’t imagine why anyone would want to defend Canon for doing this. Yes, it’s in their financial best interest, but as a photographer, this limits my choices, which is bad for me, and you. I grew up hating third party lenses, but they had their place, and offered nice entry points for new users. Recently, they’ve pushed their quality while putting downward pressure on prices. The Samyang 85 1.4 is a fantastic lens, and I’m glad I bought it while it was still available. This is a sad development.


Sep 09, 2022 at 11:11 PM
dolina
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p.15 #16 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


comotionfilms wrote:
I can’t imagine why anyone would want to defend Canon for doing this.


Many of us are aware that digital still cameras global shipments are a fraction of what it was a decade ago.
https://i.imgur.com/nq8Im87.png
https://i.imgur.com/TCaJ2sP.png
Our worry is Canon may end up like

- Minolta https://www.lightstalking.com/minolta-sony-relationship/
- Ricoh https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/ricoh-and-pentax-will-be-reborn-but-will-disappear-from-camera-stores
- Pentax https://www.adorama.com/alc/ricoh-buys-pentax/
- Samsung https://petapixel.com/2017/04/08/samsungs-camera-business-killed-smartphones-report/
- Olympus https://www.pcmag.com/opinions/what-the-olympus-imaging-sale-means-for-photographers

No one wants to own an orphaned system or brand.

For the past 19 years Canon's #1 in interchangeable lens cameras so why compromise?

Why be a loss leader when profitability is more important?

2011: Sony Discloses Basic Specifications of the "E-mount" for Interchangeable Single Lens Cameras without Fee. The mount was released in 2010.

2019: FujiFilm gave selective license for the X-mount to hopefully get to #3. The mount was released in 2012.

2021: Nikon gave selective license for the Z-mount to hopefully get back to #2 from Sony. The mount was released in 2018.

In the Philippines this is the after sales support situation that I am aware of

- Canon: closest service center to me was 20km near an expressway's exit. That closed a few months prior to COVID. Odds are revenue could not cover opex. Now I have to go an extra 10+km into the city to have service done

- Nikon: previous distributor shut down because grey market imports killed them and their overhead wasn't covered by their sales. Current distributor shut down their service center in the ground floor of our flat that we own

- Sony: During a Sony event's Q&A a Sony E mount professional photographer complained to the Japanese boss about how bad the service level of Sony service centers specific for E mount cameras

- Samsung: I won a raffle prize of a Samsung mirrorless NX kit but I wasn't present to claim it. They gave it to a friend instead which I wasn't bothered with because that system's dead

If given a choice of 3rd party lens companies declaring bankruptcy or Canon I choose 3rd party companies.

I appreciate 3rd party lens companies are

- cheaper
- more innovative
- higher risk takers
- providing inspiration for Canon/Sony/Nikon's future lenses

But I'd want them to do RF mount lenses nearing year 2030 when Canon at least recoup their R&D cost.

I am currently evaluating a medium format system

2021 FujiFILM GFX 100s

vs

2022 Hasselblad X2D 100C

Other than price FujiFILM has an edge because their service center is walking distance from my workplace while Hasselblad requires a flight to Hong Kong or Taiwan

Edited on Sep 10, 2022 at 01:06 AM · View previous versions



Sep 10, 2022 at 12:10 AM
ramage
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p.15 #17 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


comotionfilms wrote:
I can’t imagine why anyone would want to defend Canon for doing this. Yes, it’s in their financial best interest, but as a photographer, this limits my choices, which is bad for me, and you. I grew up hating third party lenses, but they had their place, and offered nice entry points for new users. Recently, they’ve pushed their quality while putting downward pressure on prices. The Samyang 85 1.4 is a fantastic lens, and I’m glad I bought it while it was still available. This is a sad development.


It is easy to defend Canon protecting their IP. Would you be cool with someone using your images without compensation?

Sadly, most people that are outraged by this action from Canon do not seem to grasp what Canon is protecting.



Sep 10, 2022 at 01:02 AM
ramage
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p.15 #18 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


Photosbydlee wrote:
Same for me, I couldn’t justify spending significantly more on RF or old EF lenses when I could get better new options with Sony.

Here in Australia for example, Canon charge way too much for a lot of their L lenses compared to what the competition charge for both first party and third party lenses.

Let's look at some comparisons:

35GM - $1899 AUD / $1399 USD
35L II - $2800 AUD / $1999 USD (much older, heavier lens in an old mount)
35mm DN Art - $1299 AUD / $749 USD

50mm f/1.2 GM - $2630 AUD / $1998 USD
50mm f/1.2L - $3399 AUD
...Show more


Sorry if this was asked and answered already. Do all the items listed have the same 5 year warranty that Canon in Australia has? In Canada we just get the 1 year😢



Sep 10, 2022 at 01:11 AM
dolina
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p.15 #19 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


ramage wrote:
It is easy to defend Canon protecting their IP. Would you be cool with someone using your images without compensation?

Sadly, most people that are outraged by this action from Canon do not seem to grasp what Canon is protecting.


I've had my work used without permission, *cough* stolen *cough* , by "good guy" bird watchers.

I had the option to sue.

But they have access to the press that can spin it as "greedy" bird photographer sues "good guy" environmentalists.

All because the public's perception that the ends justifies the means.

Same mechanics is put into play with with Canon vs 3rd party lens makers.

Canon looks bad for standing up for themselves.

I traced the the image theft of the "good guys" to a local photo forum whose forum moderators, admin, owners and members egg each other to post images larger than 1024px on the longest side. They encourage you to post only your best images.

This was back in 2011 when only FM does that and all other forums want the image size to be 1 megapixel or less.



Sep 10, 2022 at 01:14 AM
Photosbydlee
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p.15 #20 · Is Viltrox Getting Sued? (No more RF-EF Adapters/Speedboosters/Lenses)


Here in Australia it’s a minimum 2 years warranty and I think any Canon item sold after a certain date gets the 5 years. It’s one really good thing and all manufacturers should match it.

ramage wrote:
Sorry if this was asked and answered already. Do all the items listed have the same 5 year warranty that Canon in Australia has? In Canada we just get the 1 year😢




Sep 10, 2022 at 03:36 AM
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