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Archive 2022 · "I want to see them all"

  
 
bjhurley
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · "I want to see them all"


I don't work as a photographer, but when friends invite me to parties they sometimes ask me to bring my camera and take photos. I typically shoot a lot of photos, go home and cull through them, do post-processing on the ones I like, and post my selections in a private album on Flickr for the partygoers to view and download.

But sometimes I get questions from people: "I saw you taking lots of photos but you only posted 20 or 30 pictures. What happened to the rest? I want to see them all!" I explain that I only posted the ones I thought were good enough to share, omitting the ones that were out of focus (I only use manual lenses), embarrassing (people with mouthfuls of food, people looking dejected, people with weird expressions on their faces), badly framed, poorly lit, or simply boring. One guy was so insistent that I posted a second album with my rejects. Even that wasn't all the photos I shot, since I had already deleted the worst ones.

It happened again this weekend. We had a party at our house and I took photos, posted the best, and one person who came asked to see all the photos I had taken of her, since she knew I had shot more than a few but I had only posted the two I liked.

How do professional photographers handle this? Do you post all your photos, no matter how bad, and let clients pick and choose what they want? Or do you do an album of your selections and a second album with every photo you shot?



Aug 15, 2022 at 07:56 AM
Paul_K
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · "I want to see them all"


bjhurley wrote:
I don't work as a photographer, but when friends invite me to parties they sometimes ask me to bring my camera and take photos. I typically shoot a lot of photos, go home and cull through them, do post-processing on the ones I like, and post my selections in a private album on Flickr for the partygoers to view and download.

But sometimes I get questions from people: "I saw you taking lots of photos but you only posted 20 or 30 pictures. What happened to the rest? I want to see them all!" I explain that I only posted the
...Show more

To begin with, a pro photographer gets paid for the job, and conssequently has some kind of obligation to the person / organisation who hired them

That said, as part of the job, some kind of agreement / contract will have been made up beforehand what to shoot, who to shoot, how to show the proofs, and what those proofs will consist of (all images, or a selection of what the phottographer are the best shots, or the ones he is willing to show)

If you're invited by friends to shoot at their party for free, IMO you only have some kind of, at best sdomewhat ehical, obligation towards them
After all, being a good friend, you, after they asked, promisd to shoot pictures, and as a consequense, again being a good friend, have to show some of the pictures
You however can / could make part of the, even just verbal, agreement, that you will only show a selected - by you, based on the criteria you mention - number of pictures

If someone whose pictures you shot at the party also wants to see the pictures you IMO should refer them to the people whose party it was, and asked you to take pictures, and point out they agreed with you to only show a selection made by you
If they nevertheless insist, it's up to your discretion and resilience if and how many images you are willing to let them see
You after all still are in a position to refuse to show other then the ones selected by you

If they don't agree, they, based on the experiences I had in similar situations, most likely will start to say they didn't give you permission to take pictures of them, and make demands or threats, even legal, based on that

Where I live it's legal to take pictures of people at events open to the public, even if you don't have an official model release. It's however not allowed to use those images commercislly, or publish them with some kind of specific caption like eg 'drunk partygoer' as that would falsely label the perseon depicted
So that, at least where Ive, takes care of any socalled legat threats

If that's not the case where you live, or the person involved simply doesn't want to let go, just go the easy was, and delete the images of the persson involved from your online seletion and perhaps even from your harddisk
After all, why hold on to pictures of someone who behaves so unreasonably?



Aug 15, 2022 at 10:37 AM
MRomine
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · "I want to see them all"


bjhurley wrote:
How do professional photographers handle this? Do you post all your photos, no matter how bad, and let clients pick and choose what they want? Or do you do an album of your selections and a second album with every photo you shot?


Make a gallery of those images that you have culled and consider worthy of being seen and show only those.



Aug 15, 2022 at 11:17 AM
bjhurley
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · "I want to see them all"


Paul_K wrote:
If they don't agree, they, based on the experiences I had in similar situations, most likely will start to say they didn't give you permission to take pictures of them, and make demands or threats, even legal, based on that


Maybe I'll just go back to taking photos of wildflowers on public property, it's less complicated.



Aug 15, 2022 at 12:36 PM
agvogel
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · "I want to see them all"


My hunch is this often stems from people's want to choose "the best" photo, thinking that you chose one, but that there may be others that they like better of themselves. Peoples' view/perception of their own looks are very subjective.

When someone takes a photo of you on your phone, they usually take quite a few and you can choose the one you like. I think that's the experience we're attuned to and the guests may feel like they're missing.

Anyway, just some idle musings, of course not a solution to your problem. One option is to fire off a couple frames every time you go to take a shot, instead of just one, so that you can post 2 or 3 of each pose/candid that people can choose from. Hopefully similar enough that you can just copy-paste edits between the two and it doesn't add much time to your process.



Aug 15, 2022 at 12:41 PM
gheller
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · "I want to see them all"


Just to be clear, you are shooting for a few hours (assumption) and only have 20-30 that you feel are worthy?

This seems like a *really* small number. If I hired you to cover an event and this was the result, I would demand my money back. Totally unacceptable.

Now, if you are just doing this as a favor, different story (although still a tiny fraction of what I would expect for a final image count).




Aug 17, 2022 at 04:15 AM
bjhurley
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · "I want to see them all"


gheller wrote:
Just to be clear, you are shooting for a few hours (assumption) and only have 20-30 that you feel are worthy?

This seems like a *really* small number. If I hired you to cover an event and this was the result, I would demand my money back. Totally unacceptable.

Now, if you are just doing this as a favor, different story (although still a tiny fraction of what I would expect for a final image count).



I have high standards. Seriously, though, when I'm invited to a party I usually spend more time talking with people than taking pictures; I'm taking photos as a favor. I work for clients for a living and photography has always been (and will likely always be) a client-free zone for me: it's where I call the shots, literally, and maintain my creative/artistic freedom. I also grew up in the film era and even in digital I tend to shoot parsimoniously. I'm definitely not the spray and pray type. If people want me to actually document an event, I refer them to a professional photographer. I have no interest in doing that kind of thing.

At one of the recent parties I was there for three hours and took about 130 photos, all with a manual Leitz lens from 1947. The album I posted had 51. That's actually a pretty good keeper rate in my book. After the host hounded me to see the rest I posted another 47 that were either very similar to the ones I posted (but not as good) or rejected on a variety of valid grounds. Only a few of them could be called "bad," but I just didn't find them interesting or they didn't capture the subjects at their best. The remaining unposted photos were ones I deleted (e.g., photos where I accidentally hit the shutter button while the lens was pointed at my feet, photos that were too far out of focus, photos that would be too embarrassing to share...people in the background with mouthfuls of food, sad expressions, that kind of thing).

My inclination as long as nobody's paying me has been to share only the photos I think are exceptional or at least interesting/flattering, etc., but I'm learning that people want to judge for themselves and prefer to see a bigger selection.

At the party at our house last weekend the party lasted 10 hours but I only took 50 photos, mainly because the light wasn't good most of the time and I was also too busy being a host, playing music (it was a music party), and talking with friends.

When I'm going just to take photos I usually take more. I went to an event in July that lasted 4 hours and I took more than 700 photos; that's a lot for me.



Aug 17, 2022 at 04:41 AM
mdude85
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · "I want to see them all"


Hm, let's see... maybe the next time someone asks you to see all the pictures on your camera, you should ask them to show you all the pictures they took on their phone over the course of the party, in case you're in any of them?

I just wouldn't respond if I ever received an email, text or message with that kind of request.

If a person like that showed up at my own home, well, they definitely wouldn't be invited back.




Aug 17, 2022 at 03:00 PM
little tern
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · "I want to see them all"


I feel your pain. I love being able to share photos with people (whether a free or paid event) and find most people respectful but there are the bad eggs. One person hounded me for years wanting all of the motorcycle racing and track event shots I ever took of him (free of charge even though some of them were sold through a professional offering) which meant I'd have to sort through hundreds of thousands of discarded shots back when computers and file management systems were slower and less intuitive.

Perhaps the person from the party would like to have her own individual photoshoot? I may make a friendly suggestion that she schedule a regular session with me as an alternative.



Aug 17, 2022 at 03:22 PM
bjhurley
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · "I want to see them all"


little tern wrote:
Perhaps the person from the party would like to have her own individual photoshoot? I may make a friendly suggestion that she schedule a regular session with me as an alternative.


Actually a couple of people asked me to do that, which is much more enjoyable and challenging for me than quick portraits and candids at a party.

The person at the party who wanted all the photos of her was weird anyway and we'll never invite her again. At one point when my partner and I were performing a song she grabbed my camera (which I had tucked away on a shelf inside the house but she had spotted it) and tried to take some photos of us with it although she had never used a camera like mine before and couldn't figure out how it worked. It took a lot of nerve for her to take my camera without asking; I was dumbfounded.

These experiences have kind of soured me on taking photos at parties and other events, and I probably won't do it anymore; I prefer one-on-one portrait collaborations.



Aug 17, 2022 at 04:24 PM
leethecam
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · "I want to see them all"


gheller wrote:
Just to be clear, you are shooting for a few hours (assumption) and only have 20-30 that you feel are worthy?

This seems like a *really* small number. If I hired you to cover an event and this was the result, I would demand my money back. Totally unacceptable.

Now, if you are just doing this as a favor, different story (although still a tiny fraction of what I would expect for a final image count).



The number depends on the type of event and what expectations are (if this would be a paid gig).

I shoot mainly corporate gigs and one local client brings me in for 2 hr coverage. They expect only 40-50 images. And I've shot full day corporate events where the client is amazed I'm delivering more than 30.

So it really depends on the quality, the client and the contract. There are some that seem to work on an image per minute - that's not me. I've never under-delivered, but I certainly don't deliver oodles.

I'd accept 30 amazing images over 100 average ones every time.



Edited on Oct 05, 2022 at 04:03 PM · View previous versions



Aug 17, 2022 at 04:54 PM
leethecam
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · "I want to see them all"


To answer the OP's question - I deliver what I deliver. That's all you get.

There will always be someone who insists on seeing every image, for fear that there is something missing, or because they think we just press-and-go.

An image doesn't leave me without several layers of adjustments in Capture One at the very least. And I'm not doing that with images I don't deem good enough or necessary.

If they want to see everything, tell them there is an additional "Proofing Charge" to pay for processing of many more images.



Aug 17, 2022 at 04:59 PM
little tern
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · "I want to see them all"


bjhurley wrote:
At one point when my partner and I were performing a song she grabbed my camera (which I had tucked away on a shelf inside the house but she had spotted it) and tried to take some photos of us with it although she had never used a camera like mine before and couldn't figure out how it worked. It took a lot of nerve for her to take my camera without asking; I was dumbfounded.


She took your camera? No way! Who does that? I'm changing my answer. I may not make a friendly offer to do a photoshoot.



Aug 17, 2022 at 05:17 PM
bjhurley
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · "I want to see them all"


little tern wrote:
She took your camera? No way! Who does that? I'm changing my answer. I may not make a friendly offer to do a photoshoot.


Yeah, I couldn't believe it. I did not offer to give her a private photo shoot, but was approached by a few nice folks from a previous party who loved my photos and asked if I could take some portraits of them.



Aug 17, 2022 at 05:45 PM
story_teller
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · "I want to see them all"


Apologize for being a bit blunt here. It seems as though you and your audience have to different goals. They are there to re-live the event through your images. You are there to create masterpieces of technical perfection. Unless you can adjust your thinking, I would refrain from future event coverage.


Aug 18, 2022 at 07:42 AM
bjhurley
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · "I want to see them all"


story_teller wrote:
Apologize for being a bit blunt here. It seems as though you and your audience have to different goals. They are there to re-live the event through your images. You are there to create masterpieces of technical perfection. Unless you can adjust your thinking, I would refrain from future event coverage.


I'm hardly there to create "masterpieces of technical perfection" (in fact I chose most of my lenses based on their imperfections); I am just aiming to capture memorable moments and flattering portraits and candids that the partygoers would be happy to see. I'm definitely not "covering" the event. When someone invites me to bring my camera to the party, I tell them that I'm not going to be a documentarian, that my approach is more artistic. That's established at the outset. That's why I refuse invitations to document or "cover" an event. It's not what I do; if people want that I tell them to hire a professional. If I'm volunteering, I'm going to do things on my own terms. But I also want to be accommodating and not a jerk, so if people insist on seeing my rejects I'll do it.

Partygoers usually do a fine job documenting the event with their cellphones. I'm there to do something else, and so far they have really appreciated it. I get a lot of positive comments on the albums I share. Cellphones have set a low bar and people are astonished to see what a real camera can produce, especially one using old film-era lenses with lots of character. I don't think there's anything particularly stellar about most of my shots, but I get comments like "spectacular," "unbelievable," etc., probably because people are used to seeing cellphone images and don't realize that there are possibilities beyond that.



Aug 18, 2022 at 08:24 AM
crow high
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · "I want to see them all"


I did that once. I mean I let someone look at the photographs off my camera. From then on the wonder or excitement she had for me vanished. I warned here that I was taking random photographs that meant nothing. I put no thought to them. My plan had been to go over them in bridge with a lot larger err monitor later. Before I set up a photo I remember do this or that and that conveys this or that to the audience. So I combine those photographs with the random and go through them with bridge.

I've had sold out exhibitions. I've sold images to couples and individuals. But does that mean I'm pro? Or am I semi Pro? Or am I still a amateur. I don't know. I type this because I've read other user comments (B.J.Hurely Is that a joke name ? lol) and they tell you what the party goers might be thinking. While other users tell you what they are thinking as they consider themselves pro's.

You show the pictures that didn't arouse your attention then you expose your self to liability if they don't like it. And what is that
liability?



Aug 18, 2022 at 02:26 PM
story_teller
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · "I want to see them all"


Since you're setting expectations up front, I would say you've got it well in hand.


Aug 18, 2022 at 03:19 PM
RDKirk
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · "I want to see them all"


bjhurley wrote:
I don't work as a photographer, but when friends invite me to parties they sometimes ask me to bring my camera and take photos. I typically shoot a lot of photos, go home and cull through them, do post-processing on the ones I like, and post my selections in a private album on Flickr for the partygoers to view and download.

But sometimes I get questions from people: "I saw you taking lots of photos but you only posted 20 or 30 pictures. What happened to the rest? I want to see them all!" I explain that I only posted the
...Show more

Whether people pay me or not, I only show what I'm willing to publish. If they're paying me, I make it clear up front that my artistic taste is what they're paying for, and I will show them the images that present them at their best. We will have had enough consultation for me to set their expectations. Thirty images out of 130 exposures is about right for me.

If they're not paying me, I do what I want, and I won't bother with explanations. My time is valuable to me, and when I'm on my time, I do what I want. "Those were the shots I liked." Money buys explanations.



Sep 12, 2022 at 02:31 PM
Daniel Smith
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · "I want to see them all"


For what you are doing "I posted what I shot. A lot of time I am composing and realize it is not a good image, so I don't shoot it". Works well for most.

You decide what to show no matter what someone else wants.



Oct 05, 2022 at 02:19 PM
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