malotru007 wrote:
On top of that, she did mention the speed compared to the Fuji 100s so she compared apple to apples and she said it was slow. To me, at this price point, it's a no go.
Nothing wrong with that. The GFX is a very very good system, if you go that way. She did get the resolution wrong saying the GFX has more resolution when it doesn't and repeated that in the written article. That's a pretty basic thing to get wrong. Other than that I quite liked her review. I think so far mathphotographer is the best overall review I've seen. As always go for a selection rather than one person and nothing beats your own testing. Hard for now as stock is so limited but it'll stabilise.
I have spent some more time doing comparisons for the lenses I have in both systems.
1. Generally the GFX system is faster than the X2D, especially the primes. We don't know what the X2D has coming in firmware updates but for now the GFX is the better system for AF, overall. And it has eye detect and some (not brilliant) CAF already. This is a general statement. And the new XCD-V lenses are close enough for it not to be an issue. As they are released the gap will narrow to essentially nothing. But yes, the GFX system is still quicker. Also the noise of many of the XCD lenses makes them feel slower even if the difference is not that great. Just like the GFX100S *feels* bigger but really isn't in any functional way.
2. In both systems the focus is lens dependant. You need to compare like for like. ie: the HB zoom focuses faster than the GFX80mm. But you can't extrapolate the whole system from that one data point.
3. The AF on the X system has improved pretty dramatically on the pedestrian X1D cameras. Neither the GFX or X2D come close to 24x36mm cameras. They're great on accuracy but not on sports performance. If your reference is even a mid level 23x36 system then both will disappoint.
4. Hunting is essentially the same on both systems. ie: Both are worse than every 24x36 format system. But find some contrast and they're usable. The X2D has the advantage with the new lenses as the MF switchover is easy and fast when you need it. I give them equal marks with a win to the X2d with the new lenses due to the MF capabilities.
5. It's absolutely essential that the XCD glass has the latest firmware. Some like the XCD90 won't focus at all but others are slower but do have AF with the old software. This is possibly where she came unstuck.
6. Specifically, so far, with limited testing.
- The XCD21mm is slightly slower than the GFX 23mm. Both are usable.
- The XCD30 is the same as the 21. I don't have a GFX30mm. But the XCD 30mm is close to the 32-64.
- The XCD 38V is hair behind the GF50mm (the closest prime I have). But it's a tiny difference. tiny.
- The XCD45P is trounced by the GF50. The biggest disappointment for me. I don't have a GF45.
- The XCD 55V is a hair behind the GF50mm and 63mm. But it's a tiny difference. Not worth worrying about.
- The XCD 65mm is slower than the GF63mm but it's usable for stills. A noticeable difference though.
- The XCD80 and GFX80 are a wash. Sometimes I think one and then the other.
- The XCD35-75 zoom and the 32-64 and 45-100 are a wash. I couldn't pick a winner. Possibly the Hasselblad??
- The XCD 120mm and XCD135mm are noticeably slower than the GF110. An easy win for the GF system. The XCD 80 is approaching the AF speed of these two. A small bump from the X1D but the most disappointing. Also the GF100-200 is also much faster than the XCD120 or 135. The 135 is a big let down for me. As much as the 45P.
- The XH210mm with adaptor is thumped by the GF250, as it should be. The XH210 is close to the XCD135 though....
The 35V and 55V are noticeably the fastest focus. Followed closely by the zoom. Then the rest (21,30, 65 etc). Then the 80. The 120, 135, 45, 45P bring up the rear. The last group are not significantly faster than they were on the X1D. Slightly more confident due to the PDAF but not really faster. The 35V, 55V and zoom are significantly better than the rest. Close to, if not at GFX speeds.
I would think for some the 21, 30, 38, 55 (especially these two) and zoom will be OK for things like street. Certainly if you're an M shooter or such. If you shoot with an A1 or XH2 you're going to be disappointed. I'm looking forward to the eye detect stuff.
7. Optically the lenses from each system have a different philosophy. In almost every case the XCD lenses have more *bite*. You don't actually see any more resolution and with lenses like the 110 (damn that's a good lens) it works in their favour to not be so aggressive. Generally I prefer the XCD glass. That's a preference not a definitive statement. Generally the XCD lenses do better on CA. The original 45 is the weakest. Basically the newer the lens the better they get. But even the XCD30mm is pretty CA free unless pushed quite hard. The original 45 is the worst but not terrible. The 80 is sublime as is the zoom and 135. The Fuji 80 is faster but I prefer the way the XCD 80 draws.
The GF lenses tend to be slightly more gentle in the way they render. I need to dial sharpness back a bit with the XCD lenses for portraits where the Fujis are great out of the box. I need to sharpen the Fujis for landscapes where I don't for the Hasselblad. Fuji also has the film simulations so you have easy *grading* to play with. HB has the better (preference) colour science for me. The Fuji files start out less open in the shadow regions and appear richer but both have the same mailability in post processing. Long exposures are better on the Hasselblad cameras.
8. Lenses change stopped down and in different conditions but I would say the new lenses (38 and 55) have more bite than the ones they *replace*. the 38 is crisper and has less CA than the 45 or 45P. The XCD30 is close but the 38 is slightly better in most areas and a lot better in lens speed, size etc. As for the 55 vs XCD65 I think the advantages aren't optical. The 65 is already sensational. But the 55 is smaller lighter, faster and focuses noticeably better. I really really like the new focus clutch and MF implementation. Anyone interested in MF with the X2D should only buy the new lenses. I don't have my 90mm yet. Next week hopefully. It's likely (almost certain) that I'll upgrade my lenses as the new ones become available except the zoom, which is already good enough and the 80 and 21. I'd like a 110V to go with the 55 and a 28 to go with both the 55 and the zoom. I'd like to see some dramatic improvement for the 135 and a new longer zoom in the 80-160 range.
Also I have updated all the firmware on my HC lenses and they now all AF. But they only have IBIS with the normal XH adaptor. With the 0.8x adaptor I get an error saying IBIS not supported and I meed to turn it off or the shutter won't fire. The camera does report the modified focal length correctly so I hope they can fix this in firmware. Focus on all my HC lenses is slightly faster than the XCD120 and 135 which is sad.....
You're (a general not specific to this quote you're) not going to find me saying one system is better than the other. I will say that so far, they're different enough to make someone have a strong preference one way or the other.
So far my feelings are that the Fuji is an easier choice for most people. It's more flexible. There are more zooms. It adapts lenses way better. It has the tri-flip screen. It's significantly cheaper and the AF is, overall, marginally and occasionally significantly better. It does video (couldn't care less personally but some do).
The X2D is a vast improvement on the X1D. I also prefer the handling, interface and menus. The colour science is superior. The lenses are slightly better optically (and the AF is slightly worse and occasionally noticeably). It has a better EVF. Much better manual focus with the new lenses. The Hasselblad have the best long exposure implementation of any camera. Ever. Period.
For me, the X2D is an easy win. It almost perfectly suits what *I* want the camera for. And the upgrade is more than I hoped for. But it's not for everyone. I wouldn't call it a do everything system for sure. The Fuji is much closer to that than the X2D. It's still a considered system not a spontaneous one. Just less considered. With either an upgrade to the 135 (focus speed only) or a longer zoom it's my perfect travel and almost everything camera. Maybe we'll get some more improvements as new firmware is released but I wouldn't buy based on that assumption.
Only personal negative so far is they removed the remote release socket. I use that all the time. Haven't tried Phocus remote from the phone (HB's recommended replacement). But I loved the HB remote release. Also no GPS in the new body but that's not a huge issue as I can use my watch or phone to grab a location when needed.
flash wrote:
Nothing wrong with that. The GFX is a very very good system, if you go that way. She did get the resolution wrong saying the GFX has more resolution when it doesn't and repeated that in the written article. That's a pretty basic thing to get wrong. Other than that I quite liked her review. I think so far mathphotographer is the best overall review I've seen. As always go for a selection rather than one person and nothing beats your own testing. Hard for now as stock is so limited but it'll stabilise.
I have spent some more time doing comparisons for the lenses I have in both systems.
1. Generally the GFX system is faster than the X2D, especially the primes. We don't know what the X2D has coming in firmware updates but for now the GFX is the better system for AF, overall. And it has eye detect and some (not brilliant) CAF already. This is a general statement. And the new XCD-V lenses are close enough for it not to be an issue. As they are released the gap will narrow to essentially nothing. But yes, the GFX system is still quicker. Also the noise of many of the XCD lenses makes them feel slower even if the difference is not that great. Just like the GFX100S *feels* bigger but really isn't in any functional way.
2. In both systems the focus is lens dependant. You need to compare like for like. ie: the HB zoom focuses faster than the GFX80mm. But you can't extrapolate the whole system from that one data point.
3. The AF on the X system has improved pretty dramatically on the pedestrian X1D cameras. Neither the GFX or X2D come close to 24x36mm cameras. They're great on accuracy but not on sports performance. If your reference is even a mid level 23x36 system then both will disappoint.
4. Hunting is essentially the same on both systems. ie: Both are worse than every 24x36 format system. But find some contrast and they're usable. The X2D has the advantage with the new lenses as the MF switchover is easy and fast when you need it. I give them equal marks with a win to the X2d with the new lenses due to the MF capabilities.
5. It's absolutely essential that the XCD glass has the latest firmware. Some like the XCD90 won't focus at all but others are slower but do have AF with the old software. This is possibly where she came unstuck.
6. Specifically, so far, with limited testing.
- The XCD21mm is slightly slower than the GFX 23mm. Both are usable.
- The XCD30 is the same as the 21. I don't have a GFX30mm. But the XCD 30mm is close to the 32-64.
- The XCD 38V is hair behind the GF50mm (the closest prime I have). But it's a tiny difference. tiny.
- The XCD45P is trounced by the GF50. The biggest disappointment for me. I don't have a GF45.
- The XCD 55V is a hair behind the GF50mm and 63mm. But it's a tiny difference. Not worth worrying about.
- The XCD 65mm is slower than the GF63mm but it's usable for stills. A noticeable difference though.
- The XCD80 and GFX80 are a wash. Sometimes I think one and then the other.
- The XCD35-75 zoom and the 32-64 and 45-100 are a wash. I couldn't pick a winner. Possibly the Hasselblad??
- The XCD 120mm and XCD135mm are noticeably slower than the GF110. An easy win for the GF system. The XCD 80 is approaching the AF speed of these two. A small bump from the X1D but the most disappointing. Also the GF100-200 is also much faster than the XCD120 or 135. The 135 is a big let down for me. As much as the 45P.
- The XH210mm with adaptor is thumped by the GF250, as it should be. The XH210 is close to the XCD135 though....
The 35V and 55V are noticeably the fastest focus. Followed closely by the zoom. Then the rest (21,30, 65 etc). Then the 80. The 120, 135, 45, 45P bring up the rear. The last group are not significantly faster than they were on the X1D. Slightly more confident due to the PDAF but not really faster. The 35V, 55V and zoom are significantly better than the rest. Close to, if not at GFX speeds.
I would think for some the 21, 30, 38, 55 (especially these two) and zoom will be OK for things like street. Certainly if you're an M shooter or such. If you shoot with an A1 or XH2 you're going to be disappointed. I'm looking forward to the eye detect stuff.
7. Optically the lenses from each system have a different philosophy. In almost every case the XCD lenses have more *bite*. You don't actually see any more resolution and with lenses like the 110 (damn that's a good lens) it works in their favour to not be so aggressive. Generally I prefer the XCD glass. That's a preference not a definitive statement. Generally the XCD lenses do better on CA. The original 45 is the weakest. Basically the newer the lens the better they get. But even the XCD30mm is pretty CA free unless pushed quite hard. The original 45 is the worst but not terrible. The 80 is sublime as is the zoom and 135. The Fuji 80 is faster but I prefer the way the XCD 80 draws.
The GF lenses tend to be slightly more gentle in the way they render. I need to dial sharpness back a bit with the XCD lenses for portraits where the Fujis are great out of the box. I need to sharpen the Fujis for landscapes where I don't for the Hasselblad. Fuji also has the film simulations so you have easy *grading* to play with. HB has the better (preference) colour science for me. The Fuji files start out less open in the shadow regions and appear richer but both have the same mailability in post processing. Long exposures are better on the Hasselblad cameras.
8. Lenses change stopped down and in different conditions but I would say the new lenses (38 and 55) have more bite than the ones they *replace*. the 38 is crisper and has less CA than the 45 or 45P. The XCD30 is close but the 38 is slightly better in most areas and a lot better in lens speed, size etc. As for the 55 vs XCD65 I think the advantages aren't optical. The 65 is already sensational. But the 55 is smaller lighter, faster and focuses noticeably better. I really really like the new focus clutch and MF implementation. Anyone interested in MF with the X2D should only buy the new lenses. I don't have my 90mm yet. Next week hopefully. It's likely (almost certain) that I'll upgrade my lenses as the new ones become available except the zoom, which is already good enough and the 80 and 21. I'd like a 110V to go with the 55 and a 28 to go with both the 55 and the zoom. I'd like to see some dramatic improvement for the 135 and a new longer zoom in the 80-160 range.
Also I have updated all the firmware on my HC lenses and they now all AF. But they only have IBIS with the normal XH adaptor. With the 0.8x adaptor I get an error saying IBIS not supported and I meed to turn it off or the shutter won't fire. The camera does report the modified focal length correctly so I hope they can fix this in firmware. Focus on all my HC lenses is slightly faster than the XCD120 and 135 which is sad.....
You're (a general not specific to this quote you're) not going to find me saying one system is better than the other. I will say that so far, they're different enough to make someone have a strong preference one way or the other.
So far my feelings are that the Fuji is an easier choice for most people. It's more flexible. There are more zooms. It adapts lenses way better. It has the tri-flip screen. It's significantly cheaper and the AF is, overall, marginally and occasionally significantly better. It does video (couldn't care less personally but some do).
The X2D is a vast improvement on the X1D. I also prefer the handling, interface and menus. The colour science is superior. The lenses are slightly better optically (and the AF is slightly worse and occasionally noticeably). It has a better EVF. Much better manual focus with the new lenses. The Hasselblad have the best long exposure implementation of any camera. Ever. Period.
For me, the X2D is an easy win. It almost perfectly suits what *I* want the camera for. And the upgrade is more than I hoped for. But it's not for everyone. I wouldn't call it a do everything system for sure. The Fuji is much closer to that than the X2D. It's still a considered system not a spontaneous one. Just less considered. With either an upgrade to the 135 (focus speed only) or a longer zoom it's my perfect travel and almost everything camera. Maybe we'll get some more improvements as new firmware is released but I wouldn't buy based on that assumption.
Only personal negative so far is they removed the remote release socket. I use that all the time. Haven't tried Phocus remote from the phone (HB's recommended replacement). But I loved the HB remote release. Also no GPS in the new body but that's not a huge issue as I can use my watch or phone to grab a location when needed.
For my use after only 36hrs (this will change, probably) here's where I'm at system wise. So you get an isea where I think the strengths are.
X2D with 21, 30, 38V, 55V, 80, 90V, 120, 135 w'TC and the zoom. The 30 I'd swap out for a 27-28V if one is made. Also a 110-135 (ish.. prime) if they go there. The 135 is a reluctant keep due to the AF but it's the only option. Very happy with the rest. Don't care about the macro AF speed.
GFX100S with 20-35, 45-100, 100-200, 110 and 250mm. Plus it's great for adapting my Canon TS lenses.
For everything else I'm thinking of the XH2 and 150-600 plus a few lens I already have. XT5 down the track. Keep my SL2 and lenses and my M's 'cause they're fun.
SrMi wrote:
Regarding responsiveness, have you tried running X2D in 14-bit mode?
Yes. i see no real difference in the camera or AF. I tested with several but not all lenses. I'm guessing it's just buffer and transfer speeds which will benefit. Unlikely to impact the way I shoot at all.
woodstork wrote:
This system gets very interesting to me if the new lenses have almost non-existent chromatic aberration and more than fully resolve the small pixels on that 102mp sensor. A kit of the new 90mm and 38mm plus the existing 20mm could be great for landscape and travel.
The Fuji GFX 100 is a great camera with very good lenses. But most of the lenses don’t seem to fully get he most from the sensor. Hopefully Hasselblad made a better glass-to-sensor match here.
I don't have the new 90mm V yet but the 38 and 55 have incredibly low, if any, CA. Some of the older lenses (65, 80, 21 and the zoom) are also stellar in this regard although maybe the 21 and 80 are a hair behind the 65 and zoom and new V lenses. Generally the XCD lenses have less CA than their Fuji counterparts, I have found.
BrandonSi wrote:
I'm with you.. I've got a pile of C/Y and M glass I'd love to use on it..
I finally made the switch to continuous lighting in my basement studio, so at least I can adapt the glass there and not worry about sync speed / flash issues with the e-shutter.
Get the GFX100S. It's vastly superior when it comes to adapting glass. More adaptors available as well.
SrMi wrote:
I would trust Gordon's feedback, a photographer with much longer experience, both with GFX100S and X1D.
Thank you. Appreciated. I'm trying to be as *honest* as I can. But take several sources into account. My tests so far are informal at best. I will make mistakes. Not deliberately. But I know me....
flash wrote:
Get the GFX100S. It's vastly superior when it comes to adapting glass. More adaptors available as well.
Gordon
Oh yeah, it's great for that.. I had it and sold it already.. :P Actually, I still have a Canon EF - GFX adapter I should probably sell. was using it with the TS-E's..
flash wrote:
Yes. i see no real difference in the camera or AF. I tested with several but not all lenses. I'm guessing it's just buffer and transfer speeds which will benefit. Unlikely to impact the way I shoot at all.
Gordon
Thank you for checking. I was asking because the X2D manual says that captures are faster and blackout shorter with 14 bits.
SrMi wrote:
I assume that X2D is better than X1D because, in 14-bits mode, it should have a faster readout than X1D.
1/4 (14 bit) of a second vs 1/3 sec in 16 bit (and X1D). Still hopeless, unfortunately. Same as GFX but that has the mechanical shutter.
I don't use it much and I do have the GFX for adapting when I need it I only adapt my Canon TS lenses and use them only occasionally since i work so much less. So no big deal for me but certainly the biggest drawback of the camera for those who do.
For adapting a reckon even having a dedicated used 50R or original 50 might make a reasonably cheap adapting option for XxD owners.
SrMi wrote:
Thank you for checking. I was asking because the X2D manual says that captures are faster and blackout shorter with 14 bits.
It does and it's noticeable, but it's marginal. 14 bit blackout time isn't lightning anyway. Just like GFX100S. 16 bit kept up with my normal shooting speed just fine. If I were shooting a wedding reception, for example, I'd probably go 14 bit but outside that kind of environment I'd stay 16 bit for the tiny gain in colour depth. I'm generally more colour sensitive than speed sensitive. Mind you I wouldn't choose a GFX or X2D for those environments. I did once for a lark and it worked fine but I had an XT4 and a SL2 nearby, just in case it was a shit show...
Arty73 wrote:
I'm curious how the manual focus experience is, seems very promising
With the new XCDV lenses. Sensational. Natural. Easy. Fast. All the superlatives. It's not new. Olympus have done this for years. So have others. Generally you don't need it but it's fun so you just will sometimes. Also great for when the AF does struggle you can get it close really fast and use the AF to fine tune.
Older XCD. Pretty good. You need to set one of the buttons or a couple of presses on the screen to switch back and forth to MF. No hard stops but they work OK.
Adapted. Focus is easy but the electronic shutter is poor. Get the GFX100S.
The new focus confirmation with XCD lenses is awesome and you can set zoom, through the excellent VF, to the clicky rear wheel, although i have done MF with no assistance because the VF is so good. I only spent a minute or so playing. I haven't adapted more than a single lens to check if the adaptor (ef) worked. It did. You can set IBIS manually for non electronic lenses.
BrandonSi wrote:
Stupid q… how do we upgrade lens firmware ?
Edit - N/M, found the download page for the lenses..
Go to H site and download the firmware, put on card and put card in camera AND put lens on camera. Start up and open settings then go to firmware and hit the update lens firmware button. Also check which version of Camera firmware you are using. Both need to be the latest.
tenmangu81 wrote:
Hi there !!
Any experience about the new XCD V lenses on an "old" X1D II ? AF, MF, etc...
I am thinking about buying a 55V....
Thanks
Sorry for the delayed reply. Wanted to test this properly.
XCD55V on the X1DII
Works just fine. Completely silent operation.
AF is like the XCD65mm. So typical X1D speeds. There is zero AF gains on the X1D series.
Manual focus is a bit more complex. Pulling on the lens ring does initiate manual focus on the lens but not the auto focus aids. For those you also need to set the camera to MF (using one of the programable buttons to AF/MF toggle is the fastest). I don't know if HB can do a firmware upgrade to get the X2D behaviour where pulling on the focus clutch engages MF automatically.
It's just one more thing to do vs the XCD lenses (pulling on the lens clutch).
The manual focus action is much better on the XCD55V than the old XCD glass, even on the old bodies.
If you like the focal length I see no reason not to get it. Or the other new lenses.
edit: forgot to add that the function ring on the new lenses isn't supported by the X1DII or 907x. Maybe there'll be a firmware update?? Not sure if the older hardware can support it.
BrandonSi wrote:
B&H seems to have removed their expected availability date (it was previously Sept 15). Now it's "Coming Soon".
Off the top of my head I guess they've sold all the estimated stock arriving as pre-orders and don't have a next ship date. I do hope the US isn't delayed. That'd be a bit frustrating.
I do expect this to be the most popular X camera so far. It's still niche. Just not as niche as the old one.
flash wrote:
Off the top of my head I guess they've sold all the estimated stock arriving as pre-orders and don't have a next ship date. I do hope the US isn't delayed. That'd be a bit frustrating.
I do expect this to be the most popular X camera so far. It's still niche. Just not as niche as the old one.
Gordon
That's my hope as well.. I'm sure I was one of the first orders they had, so hoping I made the cut. I have a backup order elsewhere, but not sure if I would've made their first allotment. Perhaps in the grand old tradition of waiting for camera gear, I'll start a "Shipping" thread for all of us waiters to complain in.. :P
