p.11 #1 · Official Nikon 400/2.8S image thread + some discussions
philwaring wrote:
What's the procedure for reporting bugs to Nikon?
I found a really niche one using the 400Z, Recall Shooting Functions set to just disable subject detection and the menu option B7 (Keep exposure when f/stop changes) set to use ISO.
Suteetat/George: Could either of you try doing this?
1. Set a custom function button (I'm using the lens function buttons) to recall shooting function where the only selected thing is to disable subject tracking.
2. Ensure B7 is turned on and to compensate with ISO
3. Have the lens in manual (and not auto-ISO) at f2.8. Lets say ISO 500 and 1/100s.
4. Engage the TC - the lens should now read f4, 1/100s, ISO1000 (ISO has doubled due to B7)
5. Press the custom button for RSF (settings shouldn't change)
6. Change the shutter speed up or down a notch (doesn't matter as long as it changes)
7. Press the custom button for RSF again - At this point I will then see the camera switch to ISO2000 whilst I'm pressing the RSF button.
If I then flick back to no TC then this will still happen. If I tweak the shutter speed again back at f2.8 then it stops happening.
I think I might tweak my setup so that it removes subject detection but also engages auto-ISO. It's not going to be something I use too much anyway. I'd still like to see Nikon fix it sometime though in a firmware update.
In other news I used the lens with the 1.4x all day on Saturday and was flicking between 560/784 and it worked really well. I still want more experience but I'm leaning towards making this my default combo where I might want 800mm. I'd only ever really thought about using this as a 400/560 on safari (keeping a TC in the pocket) but I can totally see myself spending a morning in one configuration and then switching to the other for an afternoon drive just to get a wider variety of images....Show more →
p.11 #5 · Official Nikon 400/2.8S image thread + some discussions
philwaring wrote:
What's the procedure for reporting bugs to Nikon?
I found a really niche one using the 400Z, Recall Shooting Functions set to just disable subject detection and the menu option B7 (Keep exposure when f/stop changes) set to use ISO.
Suteetat/George: Could either of you try doing this?
1. Set a custom function button (I'm using the lens function buttons) to recall shooting function where the only selected thing is to disable subject tracking.
2. Ensure B7 is turned on and to compensate with ISO
3. Have the lens in manual (and not auto-ISO) at f2.8. Lets say ISO 500 and 1/100s.
4. Engage the TC - the lens should now read f4, 1/100s, ISO1000 (ISO has doubled due to B7)
5. Press the custom button for RSF (settings shouldn't change)
6. Change the shutter speed up or down a notch (doesn't matter as long as it changes)
7. Press the custom button for RSF again - At this point I will then see the camera switch to ISO2000 whilst I'm pressing the RSF button.
If I then flick back to no TC then this will still happen. If I tweak the shutter speed again back at f2.8 then it stops happening.
I think I might tweak my setup so that it removes subject detection but also engages auto-ISO. It's not going to be something I use too much anyway. I'd still like to see Nikon fix it sometime though in a firmware update.
In other news I used the lens with the 1.4x all day on Saturday and was flicking between 560/784 and it worked really well. I still want more experience but I'm leaning towards making this my default combo where I might want 800mm. I'd only ever really thought about using this as a 400/560 on safari (keeping a TC in the pocket) but I can totally see myself spending a morning in one configuration and then switching to the other for an afternoon drive just to get a wider variety of images....Show more →
OK, I can confirm that I have the same phenomenon. When pressing FN-L button for RSF, ISO went up again for some reason. On the other hand, I don't have a good grasp on why I would use B7 option yet. It seems that if I use auto-iso in M mode, iso will automatically adjust when I toggle internal TC on or off anyhow.
Interestingly, today my local dealer asked me to bring my 400/2.8S in as Nikon wanted to service the lens and replaced a part in internal TC toggle lever. There was an issue with this switch being too stiff on some initial batch of 400/2.8S that causes significant delay in release of 400/2.8S from initial February launch. Apparently now they came up with a new whatever part in the lever that does caused the problem. I assume that all the lenses that are released within the past week already have this part replaced. I decided to go to Nikon service center myself as it took just as long to go to my local dealer. This way, I just hanged out there for an hour and got the lens back right away rather than having to go back to my dealer later for it.
My lens' toggle lever initially is very light with very little resistance to flip. After replacing the new part, the lever is slightly stiffer, seems a bit more snappy if anything and slightly louder sound of internal TC slapped into place, I think.
I was told that the initial gear is slightly looser than the new part that they replaced ( I now assume that they replaced a gear).
Supposedly Nikon did not release any lens that have the stiff lever but plan to recall all the lens that was released in February to replace this part, just in case.
p.11 #7 · Official Nikon 400/2.8S image thread + some discussions
suteetat wrote:
OK, I can confirm that I have the same phenomenon. When pressing FN-L button for RSF, ISO went up again for some reason. On the other hand, I don't have a good grasp on why I would use B7 option yet. It seems that if I use auto-iso in M mode, iso will automatically adjust when I toggle internal TC on or off anyhow.
Interestingly, today my local dealer asked me to bring my 400/2.8S in as Nikon wanted to service the lens and replaced a part in internal TC toggle lever. There was an issue with this switch being too stiff on some initial batch of 400/2.8S that causes significant delay in release of 400/2.8S from initial February launch. Apparently now they came up with a new whatever part in the lever that does caused the problem. I assume that all the lenses that are released within the past week already have this part replaced. I decided to go to Nikon service center myself as it took just as long to go to my local dealer. This way, I just hanged out there for an hour and got the lens back right away rather than having to go back to my dealer later for it.
My lens' toggle lever initially is very light with very little resistance to flip. After replacing the new part, the lever is slightly stiffer, seems a bit more snappy if anything and slightly louder sound of internal TC slapped into place, I think.
I was told that the initial gear is slightly looser than the new part that they replaced ( I now assume that they replaced a gear).
Supposedly Nikon did not release any lens that have the stiff lever but plan to recall all the lens that was released in February to replace this part, just in case. ...Show more →
Thanks for checking! You're right that if you use Auto-ISO in Manual then you won't have the issue and would never need B7. It's for if you're in full manual. I tend to avoid Auto-ISO if the ISO should be predictable. I find that I'm a bit more aware of it that way. I do use Auto-ISO plenty too though.
Thanks for the warning about the part replacement. The lever on my 400Z feels just fine (just like the one on the 180-400 did). I guess I'll see if Nikon will contact me about it. I'm certainly not sending the lens anywhere before I travel in May but I have a big window in June/July where I'd be happy to send it in.
Edit - I've emailed Nikon to ask if I'll need to get the lens serviced due to this and I also reported the bug at the same time.
p.11 #9 · Official Nikon 400/2.8S image thread + some discussions
philwaring wrote:
Thanks for checking! You're right that if you use Auto-ISO in Manual then you won't have the issue and would never need B7. It's for if you're in full manual. I tend to avoid Auto-ISO if the ISO should be predictable. I find that I'm a bit more aware of it that way. I do use Auto-ISO plenty too though.
Thanks for the warning about the part replacement. The lever on my 400Z feels just fine (just like the one on the 180-400 did). I guess I'll see if Nikon will contact me about it. I'm certainly not sending the lens anywhere before I travel in May but I have a big window in June/July where I'd be happy to send it in.
Edit - I've emailed Nikon to ask if I'll need to get the lens serviced due to this and I also reported the bug at the same time. ...Show more →
So sorry I just read your request! I guess its a bug then! Sorry again I didn't read that until now!!
p.11 #12 · Official Nikon 400/2.8S image thread + some discussions
Hi,
Are you facing this issue only with the 400 2.8S? have you tested with other lenses as well?
BTW, I've probably not understood this issue fully but, When your starting ISO is 500 and then you engage your TC, the ISO changes to 1000 (clear). Now, when you change your shutter speed, the ISO should also increase/ decrease right? Assuming you increased your shutter speed up by a stop, your ISO would be 2000?
Or are you saying your ISO doubles regardless of whether you increase/ decrease you shutter speed (even if it is lets say on only 1/3rd a stop)? If this is the case, can you try that setting (i'm not sure where it is) that defines the ISO increments, like whether your ISO increases by 1/3rd of a stop or half a stop etc.?
Let me also check with my 500 FL.
philwaring wrote:
What's the procedure for reporting bugs to Nikon?
I found a really niche one using the 400Z, Recall Shooting Functions set to just disable subject detection and the menu option B7 (Keep exposure when f/stop changes) set to use ISO.
Suteetat/George: Could either of you try doing this?
1. Set a custom function button (I'm using the lens function buttons) to recall shooting function where the only selected thing is to disable subject tracking.
2. Ensure B7 is turned on and to compensate with ISO
3. Have the lens in manual (and not auto-ISO) at f2.8. Lets say ISO 500 and 1/100s.
4. Engage the TC - the lens should now read f4, 1/100s, ISO1000 (ISO has doubled due to B7)
5. Press the custom button for RSF (settings shouldn't change)
6. Change the shutter speed up or down a notch (doesn't matter as long as it changes)
7. Press the custom button for RSF again - At this point I will then see the camera switch to ISO2000 whilst I'm pressing the RSF button.
If I then flick back to no TC then this will still happen. If I tweak the shutter speed again back at f2.8 then it stops happening.
I think I might tweak my setup so that it removes subject detection but also engages auto-ISO. It's not going to be something I use too much anyway. I'd still like to see Nikon fix it sometime though in a firmware update.
In other news I used the lens with the 1.4x all day on Saturday and was flicking between 560/784 and it worked really well. I still want more experience but I'm leaning towards making this my default combo where I might want 800mm. I'd only ever really thought about using this as a 400/560 on safari (keeping a TC in the pocket) but I can totally see myself spending a morning in one configuration and then switching to the other for an afternoon drive just to get a wider variety of images....Show more →
p.11 #13 · Official Nikon 400/2.8S image thread + some discussions
gannis wrote:
Hi,
Are you facing this issue only with the 400 2.8S? have you tested with other lenses as well?
BTW, I've probably not understood this issue fully but, When your starting ISO is 500 and then you engage your TC, the ISO changes to 1000 (clear). Now, when you change your shutter speed, the ISO should also increase/ decrease right? Assuming you increased your shutter speed up by a stop, your ISO would be 2000?
Or are you saying your ISO doubles regardless of whether you increase/ decrease you shutter speed (even if it is lets say on only 1/3rd a stop)? If this is the case, can you try that setting (i'm not sure where it is) that defines the ISO increments, like whether your ISO increases by 1/3rd of a stop or half a stop etc.?
B7 is "Keep Exposure when F/stop changes" so when you change the shutter speed in Manual mode the ISO should not automatically increase or decrease. I found that my ISO would be doubling even if I lowered the shutter speed by 1/3rd of a stop. How much the ISO changed just seemed to depend on how much my F-Stop jumped when engaging the TC. It's like that jump gets stored in memory in some way and then affects the recall shooting functions.
I tried it with the 100-400Z and didn't get the issue but I was keeping the focal length the same. I've just tried it again on the 100-400Z and you can get the exact same problem if you zoom in and make the lens change aperture from f4.5 to something slower. The problem only occurs after you change shutter speed when you're at the new aperture.
Setting B7 also won't kick in if you're manually changing the aperture. It's for cases where the aperture changes due to other circumstances such as you're using a variable aperture zoom, engaging an internal TC and probably when you change lens to one with a smaller minimum aperture than the one you had selected.
I think you'd only hit this with your 500 FL if you're equipping a TC and had the aperture below f5.6 before doing so. I've just tested this case too (with a different lens) and it had the issue.
Start with 500 FL at f4 in manual mode, with setting B7 set to adjust ISO to keep exposure and with Recall Shooting Functions set to a custom button and to only disable subject detection. Turn camera off. Add TC. Turn camera back on. You should now be at f5.6 and ISO should have doubled. if you press the Recall Shooting Function button it should be fine. Tweak the shutter speed slightly and then press RSF again and you'll see your ISO double.
If you get the issue you can just change the aperture up/down a fraction then back (such as to f6.3 and then back to f5.6) and you shouldn't see it anymore so it's very easy to workaround. I assume any direct aperture change resets whatever data is stored by B7.
p.11 #14 · Official Nikon 400/2.8S image thread + some discussions
George DeCamp wrote:
So sorry I just read your request! I guess its a bug then! Sorry again I didn't read that until now!!
No worries George, wasn't in a rush!
Looks like it's a bug with setting B7 and nothing to do with the lens anyway. It applies just as much to manually adding a TC on a lens or zooming a variable aperture lens as it does to engaging the TC on the 400Z.
I only considered using Recall Shooting Functions to disable subject detect because it was something Steve Perry recommended and I do really like the concept. It means you can rely on subject detect but if you get into a situation where it doesn't work then you can instantly disable it without losing a shot whilst you dig into the menu. I think I'll keep using it because it's easy to work-around.
p.11 #15 · Official Nikon 400/2.8S image thread + some discussions
Ok, I will test this as well. In the meanwhile can you also check your exposure maintenance setting? I was reading through the Z9 manual and it appears "exposure maintenance setting" can at times result in ISO changes. Here is what I found for B7 setting:
When [OFF] is selected for [ISO sensitivity settings] > [Auto ISO sensitivity control] in the photo shooting menu in mode M, actions such as switching to a lens with a different aperture range may cause unintended changes to aperture. If an option other than [Exposure maintenance off] is selected for [Keep exp. when f/ changes], the camera will adjust shutter speed or ISO sensitivity to maintain exposure at its current value.
Other cases in which settings may be automatically adjusted to maintain exposure include when:
lenses with different maximum apertures at minimum and maximum zoom are zoomed in or out, or
the focus distance changes while a micro lens is attached.
The setting adjusted to maintain exposure when aperture changes can be chosen from [Shutter speed] and [ISO sensitivity]. Select [Exposure maintenance off] to disable this feature.
Depending on the lens, the camera may be unable to maintain current exposure at some settings.
Exposure maintenance is not available during video recording.
philwaring wrote:
B7 is "Keep Exposure when F/stop changes" so when you change the shutter speed in Manual mode the ISO should not automatically increase or decrease. I found that my ISO would be doubling even if I lowered the shutter speed by 1/3rd of a stop. How much the ISO changed just seemed to depend on how much my F-Stop jumped when engaging the TC. It's like that jump gets stored in memory in some way and then affects the recall shooting functions.
I tried it with the 100-400Z and didn't get the issue but I was keeping the focal length the same. I've just tried it again on the 100-400Z and you can get the exact same problem if you zoom in and make the lens change aperture from f4.5 to something slower. The problem only occurs after you change shutter speed when you're at the new aperture.
Setting B7 also won't kick in if you're manually changing the aperture. It's for cases where the aperture changes due to other circumstances such as you're using a variable aperture zoom, engaging an internal TC and probably when you change lens to one with a smaller minimum aperture than the one you had selected.
I think you'd only hit this with your 500 FL if you're equipping a TC and had the aperture below f5.6 before doing so. I've just tested this case too (with a different lens) and it had the issue.
Start with 500 FL at f4 in manual mode, with setting B7 set to adjust ISO to keep exposure and with Recall Shooting Functions set to a custom button and to only disable subject detection. Turn camera off. Add TC. Turn camera back on. You should now be at f5.6 and ISO should have doubled. if you press the Recall Shooting Function button it should be fine. Tweak the shutter speed slightly and then press RSF again and you'll see your ISO double.
If you get the issue you can just change the aperture up/down a fraction then back (such as to f6.3 and then back to f5.6) and you shouldn't see it anymore so it's very easy to workaround. I assume any direct aperture change resets whatever data is stored by B7....Show more →
p.11 #16 · Official Nikon 400/2.8S image thread + some discussions
gannis wrote:
Ok, I will test this as well. In the meanwhile can you also check your exposure maintenance setting? I was reading through the Z9 manual and it appears "exposure maintenance setting" can at times result in ISO changes. Here is what I found for B7 setting:
When [OFF] is selected for [ISO sensitivity settings] > [Auto ISO sensitivity control] in the photo shooting menu in mode M, actions such as switching to a lens with a different aperture range may cause unintended changes to aperture. If an option other than [Exposure maintenance off] is selected for [Keep exp. when f/ changes], the camera will adjust shutter speed or ISO sensitivity to maintain exposure at its current value.
Other cases in which settings may be automatically adjusted to maintain exposure include when:
lenses with different maximum apertures at minimum and maximum zoom are zoomed in or out, or
the focus distance changes while a micro lens is attached.
The setting adjusted to maintain exposure when aperture changes can be chosen from [Shutter speed] and [ISO sensitivity]. Select [Exposure maintenance off] to disable this feature.
Depending on the lens, the camera may be unable to maintain current exposure at some settings.
Exposure maintenance is not available during video recording.
I have B7 set to "ISO Sensitivity". I am 100% expecting that using B7 this way will cause ISO changes because that is its job, but it should only do it in certain circumstances (the ones you've listed from the manual). The bug here is that it does it in an unintended way.
With B7 off, if you add a TC to your 500 FL and you're were at f4, 1/1000th, ISO 800 then with the TC you'll be at f5.6, 1/1000th, ISO 800. With B7 set to ISO Sensitivity then you should end up at f5.6, 1/1000th, ISO 1600 when you add the TC because it's keeping your overall exposure the same. That's all intended and is the point of B7 when set to ISO. What shouldn't happen is any subsequent chance to your ISO just because you're turning subject detection on or off via recall shooting functions.
p.11 #18 · Official Nikon 400/2.8S image thread + some discussions
I switched from the AF-S 400/2.8 E FL to the Z 400/2.8 TC VR S and did some tests before sending the 400 E FL to its new owner. The old lens was already incredible good but the new version really is even better in terms of image quality. I didn't aspect that.
Ok here are some of my first capture with this new and incredible lens.
p.11 #19 · Official Nikon 400/2.8S image thread + some discussions
NaturRosi wrote:
I switched from the AF-S 400/2.8 E FL to the Z 400/2.8 TC VR S and did some tests before sending the 400 E FL to its new owner. The old lens was already incredible good but the new version really is even better in terms of image quality. I didn't aspect that.
Ok here are some of my first capture with this new and incredible lens.
