It's a clickbaity title and he acknowledges it as such in the video. His favorite camera is the SL2-S He doesn't hate the M11 but feels like:
24MP is the sweet spot for light gather purposes.
61MP means you're working against older lenses
Electronic shutter mode will likely lead to rolling shutter
The boxy EVF destroys the charm of a sleek Leica M-body
The M11 is a stopgap, he feels like the M12 will have no mechanical shutter and a hybrid rangefinder-EVF serving both the rangefinder and EVF Leica crowd but personally is disgruntled with misaligned rangefinders that take months to service
classicaltrevor wrote:
Looks amazing and like a true achievement.
Can’t stand people whining about what it doesn’t do or how much it costs. Plethora of other options for those people. Like literally every other manufacturer making cameras just for these people and they still need to complain about the leica they’ll never have or understand for that matter.
No one wants to hear it, and I especially hope Leica doesn’t listen to all these haters.
Leica makes the only digital camera for me right now, and unless fujifilm releases a medium format with an optical finder, it’s Leica 100%.
Honestly I wish someone would step in and make a modern $2000-2500 small rangefinder M-mount body and stuff it with loads of tech. An EVF, IBIS, GPS and a beefy BSI sensor. With all these Chinese brands releasing affordable M-glass and Voigtlander providing such excellent value for money I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet. The Pixii came close but it's still APS-C (and entirely focuses around your phone).
Regarding the slow start-up time: if I understood the description correctly, that is only if you are opting for the new scene mode metering, it needs to keep the shutter open so it can read the entire scene off the sensor. If you are using regular center-weighted or average metering modes, start-up times should be normal.
60/36/18 MPs. Was I the only one that needed to read up on what is "pixel binning ?" 😳
"To sum it up in one sentence, pixel-binning is a photography process that sees data from four pixels combined into one. So a camera sensor with tiny 0.9-micron pixels will produce results comparable to a camera with 1.8-micron pixels when taking a pixel-binned shot."
"Pixel binning is the process of combining the electric charge from adjacent CMOS or CCD sensor pixels into one super-pixel, to reduce noise by increasing the signal-to-noise ratio in digital cameras.
Typically, the binning happens on groups of four pixels that form a quad (see image) but some sensors can merge a block of up to 4×4 pixels (16 pixels) instead of 2×2 (4 pixels). By doing this, the sensor is increasing the relative sensitivity by 4 (signal to noise ratio), but also reducing the (spacial) resolution by 4. The combined pixels are sometimes called “super-pixels.”
patotts wrote:
Regarding the slow start-up time: if I understood the description correctly, that is only if you are opting for the new scene mode metering, it needs to keep the shutter open so it can read the entire scene off the sensor. If you are using regular center-weighted or average metering modes, start-up times should be normal.
Please correct me if I misunderstood that.
The M11 doesn't have the old metering modes. It can only meter with the sensor. They removed the painted shutter and sensor.
LBJ2 wrote:
60/36/18 MPs. Was I the only one that needed to read up on what is "pixel binning ?" 😳
"To sum it up in one sentence, pixel-binning is a photography process that sees data from four pixels combined into one. So a camera sensor with tiny 0.9-micron pixels will produce results comparable to a camera with 1.8-micron pixels when taking a pixel-binned shot."
"Pixel binning is the process of combining the electric charge from adjacent CMOS or CCD sensor pixels into one super-pixel, to reduce noise by increasing the signal-to-noise ratio in digital cameras.
Typically, the binning happens on groups of four pixels that form a quad (see image) but some sensors can merge a block of up to 4×4 pixels (16 pixels) instead of 2×2 (4 pixels). By doing this, the sensor is increasing the relative sensitivity by 4 (signal to noise ratio), but also reducing the (spacial) resolution by 4. The combined pixels are sometimes called “super-pixels.”
I wonder if most M11 shooters will set the camera to 36MP as default resolution and only use 60MP sporadically or if they will use the latter all the time. Reducing resolution in post achieves the same or better results.
Just watched the unboxing video for Camera West and I shake my head.
Other videos touted of Leica sent the M11 to Apple for IOS certification.
I get that the lightning to USB is for connecting to an iPhone or older iPads.
One reviewer in another video pointed out you could use the charging cable to connect to laptops and newer iPads.
Turns out the charger cable is USB C to USB A.
The newer iPads are USB C and the Macbook are USB C. So the Apple dongle hell continues for connecting the M11 to newer iPads or newer Apple MacBooks.
With the EU pushing for a standard connector of USB C you would think Leica would consider USB C to USB C for the charger.
It's just a minor thing but I still shake my head.
I've been waiting on this one - the new sensor, electronic shutter option (yes, I love shoot 'lux portraits wide open), ISO 64, and a few other things really make me want to run out and order one of these, but the price is pretty brutal (hence, I'm not arguing value here). A used one for under $8K, preferably closer to $7.5K, is where my pain threshold is, I'm afraid. At least for now.
You'll be a waiting a while for that I imagine. I expect these will be very hard to get for the next 6-9 months, and after that, those that have them will be hanging onto them.
It make a pretty good case for a used M10-R or M10-P. Not that the M11 is a bad release (and the price is the same as the last M-10R), but $9K for a digital camera is indeed a very tough pill to swallow.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I wonder if most M11 shooters will set the camera to 36MP as default resolution and only use 60MP sporadically or if they will use the latter all the time. Reducing resolution in post achieves the same or better results.
Still thinking if I will order one. If I did I would likely use 60MP most of the time as long as the quality of the image stood up to things like camera shake, etc. For myself there would be more flexibility in post with a 60MP image vs 36MP.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I wonder if most M11 shooters will set the camera to 36MP as default resolution and only use 60MP sporadically or if they will use the latter all the time. Reducing resolution in post achieves the same or better results.
18 for low light, 36 for general use and 60 for landscape and plenty of light was my first thought. If the IQ binning is appreciably different.
nehemiahphoto wrote:
18 for low light, 36 for general use and 60 for landscape and plenty of light was my first thought. If the IQ binning is appreciably different.
But if you downsample the 60MP file to 18MP in post you will get the same results (perhaps even better) with the benefit of higher detail if needed. The main benefit will be smaller DNGs.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I wonder if most M11 shooters will set the camera to 36MP as default resolution and only use 60MP sporadically or if they will use the latter all the time. Reducing resolution in post achieves the same or better results.
36MP seems a likely popular scenario. I do like the choice of 60/36/18 if the IQ is there without too much sacrifice. Initially I expected lower resolution files might be brought about by some form of compression. But now that we know it's pixel binning and following some of the comments about potentially better DR at 36 and 18 vs 60MP--I've been Googling a bit more than normal. Interesting to think about higher DR 36/18 MP images taken at new and real ISO 64
derKoekje wrote:
Honestly I wish someone would step in and make a modern $2000-2500 small rangefinder M-mount body and stuff it with loads of tech. An EVF, IBIS, GPS and a beefy BSI sensor. With all these Chinese brands releasing affordable M-glass and Voigtlander providing such excellent value for money I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet. The Pixii came close but it's still APS-C (and entirely focuses around your phone).
Why would anyone do that when pricing it at $6000 would still be a great deal, comparatively? Hello, Epson?
LBJ2 wrote:
36MP seems a likely popular scenario. I do like the choice of 60/36/18 if the IQ is there without too much sacrifice. Initially I expected lower resolution files might be brought about by some form of compression. But now that we know it's pixel binning and following some of the comments about potentially better DR at 36 and 18 vs 60MP--I've been Googling a bit more than normal. Interesting to think about higher DR 36/18 MP images taken at new and real ISO 64
If ISO 64 is indeed the base ISO, the Leica M11 could have higher DR than the Sony A7R IV at its base ISO but may do slightly worse at high ISO settings.
Fred Miranda wrote:
But if you downsample the 60MP file to 18MP in post you will get the same results (perhaps even better) with the benefit of higher detail if needed. The main benefit will be smaller DNGs.
I am waiting, but I thought there was an actual IQ difference at less MP, or maybe that’s just marketing. I was hoping for a noisy difference too. If it’s just really downsampling, not that impressive to me (though handy).
