ArchnemeSwiss wrote:
Your A1 and other mirrorless electronic cameras have autofocus fine-tuning capabilities that can also be used to make sure focus is as accurate as possible. That's not doable with a Leica M so the bodies are more finicky and need expert care to run properly. Think of the M11 like an exotic European sports car. When it runs well, there's nothing like it and the pleasure is immense. But we all know those cars spend more of their time in the shop. A Leica M is the same.
Rangefinder mis-alignment however is not a fatal flaw if you're aware of it and willing to work around it. Generally if the rangefinder is off, it's consistently off. If one wishes to avoid or delay a lengthy and inconvenient service visit with Leica, it's a relatively simple matter to determine how much rangefinder offset - intentional mis-alignment of the rangefinder patch in the viewfinder - will consistently yield correctly focused images.
Yes, this is not how the system is intended to work and is inconvenient. But it means the system remains available for use and is usable, rather than sitting in the shop. IMO it's par for the course with the M system, despite the high cost of entry that many assume means operating closer to perfection than 'lesser' systems. It has certain 'quirks' that can arise and it's worth learning these and how to work with, or around them, to continue to effectively use the system between service visits (which IMO really shouldn't be more than every few years at most).
ArchnemeSwiss wrote:
So informative, Thank You! I didn't even hear of such an aid, and a fantastic way to practice focusing. I absolutely love the look and feel of this camera. I may have to try that aid myself
And Thank you too rschaffer for the work around solutions if needed.
flash wrote:
For some good news I will say that reports of M10's and M11's with calibration issues are MUCH lower than prevoius generations. Both my M9's, both my M240's and both my M-P's required almost immediate adjustment (from the M240 you could do it yourself if you had the mind to). My M10's, one required a vertical adjustment after a few months and so far nothing with my M10M and M11. My M11 still has perfect alignment after 4 months or so of regular use.
Gordon
My M9 seems to have alignment issues as well. Were you able to fix it yourself?
BTW, the issue he had with his third M11 was the same one I had with my new M10-R. The shutter would remain shut during LV mode which gave me a black image. I would still able to take pictures in classic mode (RF) since the M10-R can meter from the shutter. (The M11 does not have this option)
Personally I tried two M11 bodies and both were freezing constantly. Hopefully Leica will be able to mitigate this soon and there are many happy M11 shooters so it does not affect all cameras.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Personally I tried two M11 bodies and both were freezing constantly. Hopefully Leica will be able to mitigate this soon and there are many happy M11 shooters so it does not affect all cameras.
Matt Day confirmed recently on YouTube that since the latest firmware update (1.6.0.0 Dec 2022) he has not had any freezes anymore. Hopefully Leica solved the issue for good.
I've been contemplating a M10-R and every time I lean toward stretching for the M11 I see someone new having an issue with it. It's obviously not a widespread issue but big enough to potentially make me not want to purchase.
Unfortunately in the last two weeks I know of two guys who bought M11s and had to send them back for repair. I am not sure what the actual percent sold that are experiencing problems is, but anecdotally it seems high. It is one of the reasons I don't have one yet.
I expect both superior manufacturing and service from a premium brand. Not sure we are getting that from Leica currently.
Unfortunately in the last two weeks I know of two guys who bought M11s and had to send them back for repair. I am not sure what the actual percent sold that are experiencing problems is, but anecdotally it seems high. It is one of the reasons I don't have one yet.
I expect both superior manufacturing and service from a premium brand. Not sure we are getting that from Leica currently.
This is why I haven't picked one up. Years ago I ordered a Canon 1DmkIII knowing some of them had issues. I ended up with one with issues. Sucked..It was a time consuming and frustrating and why I won't "upgrade" my current setup, besides that...I think my m10-R is the best body I've ever shot.
rji2goleez wrote:
I guess I’ve been lucky. Dare I say but my M11 has been issue free. There, I now I just jinxed myself . . .
Same here. I had 1 freeze 2 firmwares ago or so and some strange exposure problems for 1 image in a series of ten sometime 1 year ago but that's all.
Fingers crossed.
The reported M11 issues did influence me, when deciding how to spend my finite funds on photography equipment in 2022. I have mentioned, in earlier posts, in various discussions, that I decided to buy faster lenses, to use on the M Type 246, rather that buy an M10 Monochrom, but I also considered that these lens acquisitions would mean an indefinite postponement of buying an M11. I had thought that it would be nice to have an M11, in time for anticipated travel to the Southwest USA in April/May 2023, but it now seems that my best bet is going to be to use my Nikon D850 or Canon 5Ds R for the high-resolution shots. I feel comfortable, not having rolled the dice on an M11.
To be clear, I am not meaning to seem like a cry-baby. These are First World problems.
Jan 22, 2023 at 11:34 AM
Mark Metternich Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
Great, write up!
I can’t wait to test this in comparison to the SL2. With my tests, making gigantic gallery enlargements for clients full-time, I have not found a 35mm camera to truly give the fullest of 60 megapixels. I might sound skewed here, but I don’t think even close.
With several sharpest Zeiss and top Leica primes, and the pixel shift of the Panasonic Lumix S1R, or the Leica SL2 (with a sensor of 47MP) at least with my tests, pushing quality enlargements to humongous sizes, I have yet to see any benefit to 60 megapixels on a 35mm camera. I have seen some detriment. And I cannot complement either of the Sony cameras that have gone to 61 megapixels. If I was to buy another Sony, it would probably be the Alpha One (50MP). But having processed many of these files as well, I very happily own the S1R.
Even with great glass, the best files coming out of the aforementioned camera set ups (S1R and SL2) have been as good or better than anything I have ever seen, even from top medium format.
Just this week I got to test a clients SL2 (pixel shifted) against the 150 megapixel Phase, with a top Rodenstock lens. The SL2 impressed me more.
My experience based on being an old fart and reading some of the silly questions posed by some on the forums is that there are fair number of clueless folk out there with little or no common sense and perhaps they invite these types of issues, as they have occurred with all digital Ms. My digital M journey started with MP-240 & MD-240. I was an early adopter of M10 in 2017 and have upgraded to every model (a bit impulsive!). My needs are super basic. I use my digital Ms just like my M6. I have no need for user profiles and about the only thing I do with menus is format my cards. Mine have all been perfect! Except for rangefinder alignment!
Rob L wrote:
My experience based on being an old fart and reading some of the silly questions posed by some on the forums is that there are fair number of clueless folk out there with little or no common sense and perhaps they invite these types of issues, as they have occurred with all digital Ms. My digital M journey started with MP-240 & MD-240. I was an early adopter of M10 in 2017 and have upgraded to every model (a bit impulsive!). My needs are super basic. I use my digital Ms just like my M6. I have no need for user profiles and about the only thing I do with menus is format my cards. Mine have all been perfect! Except for rangefinder alignment! ...Show more →
I wouldn't lay the blame on the end user. While it's accurate that Leica hasn't made a highly reliable digital M camera, most models work well. However, reports of freezing and hardware failure with the M11 are legit and shouldn't be ignored. Some problems could stem from firmware, but it's evident that improvements must be made before the release of the next model. End users shouldn't be expected to act as beta testers.
Quality control is a cost, but it is less acceptable that a company that run a premium brand, with a premium in the price do not test more the product.
It is a cost, but in Europe, they pay to give customers the option for a 20 month, interest and expense free, payment instalment.
Hi Flash, how did you sort it out? I successfully did my alignment, thought I must nip down stairs to get some toothpicks so I don't cross thread the black covering screw, decided I'd be fine and immediately cross threaded it! Now partially screwed in, 45 degrees of movement and at a slight angle to the font plate, although I can turn it a bit I can neither tighten nor loosen. Any tips?
I think one of the issues is that you need pressure to turn the screw which worsens the problem, I wondered about using hot glue to attach something to the screw so I can turn and lift but there's every chance of this getting worse and worse!
Rob L wrote:
My experience based on being an old fart and reading some of the silly questions posed by some on the forums is that there are fair number of clueless folk out there with little or no common sense and perhaps they invite these types of issues, as they have occurred with all digital Ms. My digital M journey started with MP-240 & MD-240. I was an early adopter of M10 in 2017 and have upgraded to every model (a bit impulsive!). My needs are super basic. I use my digital Ms just like my M6. I have no need for user profiles and about the only thing I do with menus is format my cards. Mine have all been perfect! Except for rangefinder alignment! ...Show more →
Sorry Rob I agree with Fred. I had a launch day M11 which was rock solid. When the M11M launched I bought that, and it suffered from freezing issues requiring me to take out the battery to reset the camera. I lost pictures through corrupt files at times too. The M11M had a later firmware and was built a year later but was the only camera showing issues. Recent firmware updates seems to have solved whatever the issue was.
I had plenty of people say 'it must be how you use the camera' but having a *control* camera for a year which performed flawlessly, and then getting a dodgy one which suffered issues, kind of squashes that argument considering I use them the same way.
And like you I'd gone through various 240 and 10 series M cameras over the years before hitting the M11.
MidlandsInnit wrote:
Hi Flash, how did you sort it out? I successfully did my alignment, thought I must nip down stairs to get some toothpicks so I don't cross thread the black covering screw, decided I'd be fine and immediately cross threaded it! Now partially screwed in, 45 degrees of movement and at a slight angle to the font plate, although I can turn it a bit I can neither tighten nor loosen. Any tips?
I think one of the issues is that you need pressure to turn the screw which worsens the problem, I wondered about using hot glue to attach something to the screw so I can turn and lift but there's every chance of this getting worse and worse!...Show more →
I ordered a new screw from Leica. Leica Oz had one in stock so it was a few days.
I had to scrififice the original to get it out.
To apply the screw don’t use a screwdriver etc. Try some double sided tape and a flat ended object. I used a chopstick! Allows you to keep the screw flat and doesn’t scratch it.
