My A7SIII doesnt work properly with any of my Loxia.
Also tried 2 other copies of Lox35 with various age, neither worked.
From my sample rate, i would say you would be lucky it works.
Good luck 50/A1
gunmetal wrote:
Has anyone determined why it only affects some A1/Loxia combos and not others? Just purchased an A1 and have a Loxia 50mm that is an all time keeper for me (kept it when I left Sony for a minute) and am now dying to test it out when I get home tonight. Going to be a major bummer if my copies don't cooperate.
gunmetal wrote:
Has anyone determined why it only affects some A1/Loxia combos and not others? Just purchased an A1 and have a Loxia 50mm that is an all time keeper for me (kept it when I left Sony for a minute) and am now dying to test it out when I get home tonight. Going to be a major bummer if my copies don't cooperate.
It's all about the electronic communication between camera and lens. The problem is very simple: when the A1 (or any modern Sony camera) detects a change in the aperture value of the lens, it immediately exits magnified view. The aperture value is communicated from the lens to the camera via a chip in the lens that is powered by the camera. That aperture value signal is not stable with some (or many) Loxia lenses.
Since one and the same Loxia lens (like my Loxia 25) can work perfectly at a certain aperture value, but suffer from the issue at another given aperture value (mine has the issue at or around f5.6), it will almost certainly have to do with the mechanical aperture ring and the way in which it translates the mechanical aperture position into an electronic aperture value that is used by the camera. That electronic value obviously changes when turning the aperture ring, but clearly the signal can also suffer from al sorts of instability caused by the aperture ring's mechanical to electronic coupling, even when the aperture ring remains in one position. The A1 has a very fast response time thanks to its very fast processor. apparently it detects very small instabilities in the aperture signal. Cameras with older, slower processors seem to suffer from the issue less (or not at all), and that may be because their slow processor don't detect (very small) instabilities in the aperture signal.
In any event, Zeiss (Cosina) and Sony are the only ones who could work this out and come with a solution, but Zeiss is not interested and I doubt Sony has any interest.
So, if the issue is mild, best is to live with it, and slightly nudge the aperture ring until you can succesfully enter magnified view, This is what I do with the Loxia 25 when it is set to or around f5.6. At f7.1 or f8 (for landscapes) the exit out of magnified view never happens.
If it is more severe, then the only thing to do, is disable magnified view and resort to focus peaking. With focus peaking, you have a 100% working lens.
ChrisMak wrote:
If it is more severe, then the only thing to do, is disable magnified view and resort to focus peaking. With focus peaking, you have a 100% working lens.
I use a7r4 with CV lenses for Leica (no CPU for E-mount) and have AEL button programmed to circle magnification. This is a pretty workable solution. Visual focus on magnified screen provides much much better results than focus peaking at 1.0x. If MF Assist is disabled, I guess, aperture malfunction should not interfere in this process.
You're talking like it's a focus magnification issue - it's a lot more serious. Whenever the camera detects a change in aperture, you won't get an exposure. You can keep tapping the shutter button, and hope you get a stable signal, but most likely you won't. And you can forget about the self timer as it will get cancelled way before the 2 secs is over.
I sold all my Loxias because of this.
RT-- wrote:
You're talking like it's a focus magnification issue - it's a lot more serious. Whenever the camera detects a change in aperture, you won't get an exposure. You can keep tapping the shutter button, and hope you get a stable signal, but most likely you won't. And you can forget about the self timer as it will get cancelled way before the 2 secs is over.
I sold all my Loxias because of this.
Oh wow. That would be an absolute no-go for newer generation Sony cameras for me. Can others confirm this behaviour with the A1/A7m4/A7S3 and Loxia lenses?
RT-- wrote:
You're talking like it's a focus magnification issue - it's a lot more serious. Whenever the camera detects a change in aperture, you won't get an exposure. You can keep tapping the shutter button, and hope you get a stable signal, but most likely you won't. And you can forget about the self timer as it will get cancelled way before the 2 secs is over.
I sold all my Loxias because of this.
Thanks, this answers my question why changing aperture even exits the magnified view in the first place.
Unfortunately, this makes matters even worse...
TBH, I think the issue could be fixed purely mechanically, by increasing the "stiffness" of the aperture ring.
RT-- wrote:
You're talking like it's a focus magnification issue - it's a lot more serious. Whenever the camera detects a change in aperture, you won't get an exposure. You can keep tapping the shutter button, and hope you get a stable signal, but most likely you won't. And you can forget about the self timer as it will get cancelled way before the 2 secs is over.
I sold all my Loxias because of this.
I have not had the issue so bad that I was not able to get an exposure myself. I just have the A1 exitting magnified view as soon as I turn the zoom ring and it goes into maginfied view. When turning the zoom ring I get the jumping in out of magnified view repeatedly, but when I release the zoom ring, I can get an exposure.
What does happen in your case? Does the A1 refuse to take the shot, or does it get the exposure wrong? I get the issue with the self timer, but hardly ever use that myself.
I messaged Zeiss about this issue and received a response:
Dear David,
The issue is addressed and our developer team and supplier are currently working on a solution. We will start the testings when lenses with new firmware implemented are available.
Our website is always the best source for latest information because now it is hard to say when a solution will be ready for the market.
Thanks again for your request.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen - With best regards
Glad to see Zeiss working on trying to resolve the issue!
degner wrote:
I messaged Zeiss about this issue and received a response:
Dear David,
The issue is addressed and our developer team and supplier are currently working on a solution. We will start the testings when lenses with new firmware implemented are available.
Our website is always the best source for latest information because now it is hard to say when a solution will be ready for the market.
Thanks again for your request.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen - With best regards
degner wrote:
I messaged Zeiss about this issue and received a response:
Dear David,
The issue is addressed and our developer team and supplier are currently working on a solution. We will start the testings when lenses with new firmware implemented are available.
Our website is always the best source for latest information because now it is hard to say when a solution will be ready for the market.
Thanks again for your request.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen - With best regards
That is good to hear, it makes me feel that my emails to Zeiss were not completely in vain. I really hope they bring out a fix (if at all possible through firmware). If not possible through firmware, but in need of e.g. replacing the chip in the lens, then I am not sure Zeiss would offer it as free service.
But they refer to new firmware, so let's hope that works out!
ChrisMak wrote:
What does happen in your case? Does the A1 refuse to take the shot, or does it get the exposure wrong? I get the issue with the self timer, but hardly ever use that myself.
The camera just refuses; no shot taken until the aperture is stable.
Normally, when you change the aperture, it lights up orange on the screen, and half pressing the shutter button changes it back to white. I saw it only blink white and go back to orange before full press, thus preventing any shutter actuation. Usually the aperture numbers didn't change but sometimes it went back and forth between two. I also de-clicked the aperture ring, and tried turning it ever so slightly but didn't see any change in behavior.
Zeiss pointed the blame at Sony even though it is clearly a firmware compatibility issue, and an issue with the aperture encoder (wear?). My oldest Loxia, the 50, was the worst, and only worked at f/16, I think. On my newest Loxia, the 85, the issue only occurred at f/4. My 25 worked from f/5.6 up. All three worked flawlessly on 7M3 and 7RM3.
No point in keeping lenses you can't use, so I sold them at a huge loss, as there is no real market for these around here. Good to hear they might have found a fix but I think I'll stay away from Zeiss in the future.
How did you get your camera early? I thought they came out Dec 6.
I did try my Loxias on one during a vendors day at hunt’s and didn’t have any problems. Hopefully yours is good also.
Bokehddicted wrote:
My A7RV shipped today. Will be able to report in a few days whether this issues occurs on it. Would love to have them working properly 🙏🏼
On my Lox35 the problem is completely gone with the A7RV vs my A7SIII.
On my Lox25 the problem is way less pronounced.
I am now 100% certain that my technical assessment of the problem many pages back is correct:
There is a tolerance for the analog aperture readout that triggers the ‚disable magnify‘ function. Prior to A1/A7SIII this tolerance was big enough that jitter on the analog signal wouldnt trigger. With these bodies the tolerance was changed. The A7RV might now be inbetween.
Sony could fix this without Zeiss.
They could even implement a customizable function. In Sony nomenclature this would likely be called:
ANALDAC_TOLER_VALUTRIG_FYOU=42
Bokehddicted wrote:
My A7RV shipped today. Will be able to report in a few days whether this issues occurs on it. Would love to have them working properly 🙏🏼
Bokehddicted wrote:
Sorry for the late update on this.
On my Lox35 the problem is completely gone with the A7RV vs my A7SIII.
On my Lox25 the problem is way less pronounced.
I am now 100% certain that my technical assessment of the problem many pages back is correct:
There is a tolerance for the analog aperture readout that triggers the ‚disable magnify‘ function. Prior to A1/A7SIII this tolerance was big enough that jitter on the analog signal wouldnt trigger. With these bodies the tolerance was changed. The A7RV might now be inbetween.
Sony could fix this without Zeiss.
They could even implement a customizable function. In Sony nomenclature this would likely be called:
I fully agree with your assessment. The newer Sony processor is very fast, and will have laid bare a problem that passed the slower older processor by.
