ftllens wrote:
strange issue, but successful in selling more gm lenses or newer loxia copies
The problem appears to really only occur with the A1, and in some ways it is odd to use a manual focus lens like a Loxia on that AF Godzilla anyway. But knowledgeable photographers in this thread report excellent results with the Loxia on the A1's sensor and want to use it there, so.... In fairness to Loxia, the problem is also reported in the above thread to crop up with some Voigtlander lenses.
I don't usually mount Loxia on my A1. After reading this, I tried my Loxia 21, 25, 50, and 85 on the A1 and all seemed to function perfectly as expected in the magnify mode. So, some lenses seem to have the problem and others not. Or, maybe some A1's have the problem and others not? And some of my Loxia are not newer ones. But some posters in the thread also report that the problem can be intermittent, so perhaps I'll get worse results next week.
That makes me wonder if there might be some particular set of settings on the A1 that produces the problem. That might account for how much variability there is in the occurrence of the problem. There are not infrequently odd buggy interactions in complex software.
The Loxia lenses produce such beautiful results and it is possible now, with so many lenses for Sony users to choose from, to find good used copies at good prices.
chiron wrote:
The problem appears to really only occur with the A1, and in some ways it is odd to use a manual focus lens like a Loxia on that AF Godzilla anyway. But knowledgeable photographers in this thread report excellent results with the Loxia on the A1's sensor and want to use it there, so.... In fairness to Loxia, the problem is also reported in the above thread to crop up with some Voigtlander lenses.
After reading this, I tried my Loxia 21, 50, and 85 on my A1 and all seemed to function perfectly as expected in the magnify mode. So, some lenses seem to have the problem and others not. And some of my Loxia are not newer ones. But some in the thread also report that the problem can be intermittent, so perhaps I'll get worse results next week.
That makes me wonder if there might be some particular set of settings on the A1 that produces the problem. That might account for how much variability there is in the occurrence of the problem. There are not infrequently odd buggy interactions in complex software.
The Loxia lenses produce such beautiful results and it is possible now with so many lenses for Sony users to choose from to find good used copies at good prices....Show more →
It is definitely not setting related. I have the Loxia 25 and 50, the 25 does it consistently and most often at apertures around f5.6, the Loxia 50, which I bought new recently, works perfectly fine.
Also, it is not intermittent in my experience, it is just there, and does not go away nor does it get much worse.
the reason to use the A1 with the Loxia lenses, is that the results are the best IQ wise i.m.o. of any Sony body.
ChrisMak wrote:
It is definitely not setting related. I have the Loxia 25 and 50, the 25 does it consistently and most often at apertures around f5.6, the Loxia 50, which I bought new recently, works perfectly fine.
Also, it is not intermittent in my experience, it is just there, and does not go away nor does it get much worse.
the reason to use the A1 with the Loxia lenses, is that the results are the best IQ wise i.m.o. of any Sony body.
How can you be so certain that it is not some combination of settings? There must be dozens if not hundreds of permutations that affect the software operations of the camera.
The other possibility that occurs to me is firmware. I am running firmware 1.30 which only became available on June 13, 2022. All of the posts reporting problems predate the release of this firmware. I am not having problems with any of my four Loxia lenses, including the 25mm set to f5.6. Are you running 1.30 or 1.20 or earlier on your A1?
chiron wrote:
How can you be so certain that it is not some combination of settings? There must be dozens if not hundreds of permutations that affect the software operations of the camera.
The other possibility that occurs to me is firmware. I am running firmware 1.30 which only became available on June 13, 2022. All of the posts reporting problems predate the release of this firmware. I am not having problems with any of my four Loxia lenses, including the 25mm set to f5.6. Are you running 1.30 or 1.20 or earlier on your A1?
Firmware 1.30
If you can let me know what setting will solve the issue, please do.
chiron wrote:
No reason to be snarky. Of course I don't know. It is a hypothesis.
Sorry, but if after two years no one has found any kind of setting that improves it in even a slight way, then what credibility has such a hypothesis? It is a hardware issue and Loxia users have no way to mend it, which is a real bother.
Disclosure: This may or may not be relevant to this issue - My A7RIV would randomly enter focus tracking mode with the tracking box moving pretty much all over the screen, even when not in tracking mode. I use the battery grip 95% of the time and, after I power cycled the camera to stop the tracker cycling, I could tighten the retainer screw knob (minimally) which, I believe, improved the contact between the grip and the body and the problem would disappear. So, I researched electrical contact cleaners and I found products called DeoxIT made by a company called Caig Laboratories. https://caig.com/deoxit-d-series/. I ordered D, S, and G series in 7.4mL bottles. A small amount goes a long way and these small bottles may last most folks for many years. I found these products to be very effective which launched me on a project to clean and protect all of my interconnect cabling, batteries, ETC. I used the cleaner (very sparingly) on all of the gold_plated connections on all camera bodies, lenses, batteries and their contact points. I have not had the issue return since, about a year now. We live in Hawai'i and our moist tropical air is bad news for electronics and rubberized stuff. I am acutely aware of the effects of moist and/or salt air. Protect or else replace more frequently. A side benefit is that these products also lubricate and I found many connections went together easier and more smoothly than before application.
I worked in automotive Service and Parts for many years and learned about the critical nature of good, solid, clean electrical connections first hand. We used Stabilant 22 in service departments for pretty much the same purpose and, it too is pricey, but excellent. This has only intensified as vehicles are now packed with on-board computers and sensors. More often than you might think, random, intermittent problems can be corrected by assuring a sound electrical system and battery! Hope this is helpful.
ChrisMak wrote:
Sorry, but if after two years no one has found any kind of setting that improves it in even a slight way, then what credibility has such a hypothesis? It is a hardware issue and Loxia users have no way to mend it, which is a real bother.
Two points:
1. This problem appears to be limited to the A1. There were no reports I know of prior to the introduction of the A1. The problem seems to be something that the A1 is doing that other camera bodes do not do.
2. For some users the problem is intermittent. For some users the problem is constant. For some users the problem is non-existent.
3. The problem does not seem confined to the age of the lens. There is no reason to think that Zeiss has introduced any variability into the manufacture of the Loxia lenses.
4. A software bug that is variable with different combinations of apparently unrelated settings is consistent with all of the above. There are dozens if not hundreds of such combinations.
5. The hypothesis of "a hardware problem" is not really consistent with # 2 or 3. More likely a software problem that is variable in when it occurs. A bug.
DeoxIT has been around a long time, I used it back in the late 80's/early 90's for contact issues I had with an old computer. It's definitely worth a shot, it could be some resistance induced by wear and it throws off communication just enough to cause an issue. The a1 might be more sensitive to that.
Anyway, I know it helped with the computer problem I had years ago. If I remember, it's more than a cleaner.
lightseker wrote:
Disclosure: This may or may not be relevant to this issue - My A7RIV would randomly enter focus tracking mode with the tracking box moving pretty much all over the screen, even when not in tracking mode. I use the battery grip 95% of the time and, after I power cycled the camera to stop the tracker cycling, I could tighten the retainer screw knob (minimally) which, I believe, improved the contact between the grip and the body and the problem would disappear. So, I researched electrical contact cleaners and I found products called DeoxIT made by a company called Caig Laboratories. https://caig.com/deoxit-d-series/. I ordered D, S, and G series in 7.4mL bottles. A small amount goes a long way and these small bottles may last most folks for many years. I found these products to be very effective which launched me on a project to clean and protect all of my interconnect cabling, batteries, ETC. I used the cleaner (very sparingly) on all of the gold_plated connections on all camera bodies, lenses, batteries and their contact points. I have not had the issue return since, about a year now. We live in Hawai'i and our moist tropical air is bad news for electronics and rubberized stuff. I am acutely aware of the effects of moist and/or salt air. Protect or else replace more frequently. A side benefit is that these products also lubricate and I found many connections went together easier and more smoothly than before application.
I worked in automotive Service and Parts for many years and learned about the critical nature of good, solid, clean electrical connections first hand. We used Stabilant 22 in service departments for pretty much the same purpose and, it too is pricey, but excellent. This has only intensified as vehicles are now packed with on-board computers and sensors. More often than you might think, random, intermittent problems can be corrected by assuring a sound electrical system and battery! Hope this is helpful.
I think I've already stated this in this very thread, but I had CV35 fail on me this way on A7III and then CV65 on A1. Doesn't seem to be software related either, as switching lenses without any changes to in-cam settings could trigger the issue...
I'm inclined to think it has something to do with the conditions (temperature, etc.) and aperture ring position as someone suggested before, as at least some certain aperture values were also observed as problematic by others (so probably a bit too sensitive aperture encoder)... In my case, it's intermittent in that sense, that it sometimes happens, sometimes not (so maybe that external conditions are at play here).
I think A1 might be more sensitive to this due to possibly a higher frequency of "refreshing" the data coming from the lens, but that's only a wild guess .
j4nu wrote:
I think I've already stated this in this very thread, but I had CV35 fail on me this way on A7III and then CV65 on A1. Doesn't seem to be software related either, as switching lenses without any changes to in-cam settings could trigger the issue...
I'm inclined to think it has something to do with the conditions (temperature, etc.) and aperture ring position as someone suggested before, as at least some certain aperture values were also observed as problematic by others (so probably a bit too sensitive aperture encoder)... In my case, it's intermittent in that sense, that it sometimes happens, sometimes not (so maybe that external conditions are at play here).
I think A1 might be more sensitive to this due to possibly a higher frequency of "refreshing" the data coming from the lens, but that's only a wild guess ....Show more →
Yes, the A1 refreshing its data at very high rate is my guess why it is extra sensitive to what will most likely be a bad aperture ring design with regards to electronic coupling.
lightseker wrote:
Disclosure: This may or may not be relevant to this issue - My A7RIV would randomly enter focus tracking mode with the tracking box moving pretty much all over the screen, even when not in tracking mode. I use the battery grip 95% of the time and, after I power cycled the camera to stop the tracker cycling, I could tighten the retainer screw knob (minimally) which, I believe, improved the contact between the grip and the body and the problem would disappear. So, I researched electrical contact cleaners and I found products called DeoxIT made by a company called Caig Laboratories. https://caig.com/deoxit-d-series/. I ordered D, S, and G series in 7.4mL bottles. A small amount goes a long way and these small bottles may last most folks for many years. I found these products to be very effective which launched me on a project to clean and protect all of my interconnect cabling, batteries, ETC. I used the cleaner (very sparingly) on all of the gold_plated connections on all camera bodies, lenses, batteries and their contact points. I have not had the issue return since, about a year now. We live in Hawai'i and our moist tropical air is bad news for electronics and rubberized stuff. I am acutely aware of the effects of moist and/or salt air. Protect or else replace more frequently. A side benefit is that these products also lubricate and I found many connections went together easier and more smoothly than before application.
I worked in automotive Service and Parts for many years and learned about the critical nature of good, solid, clean electrical connections first hand. We used Stabilant 22 in service departments for pretty much the same purpose and, it too is pricey, but excellent. This has only intensified as vehicles are now packed with on-board computers and sensors. More often than you might think, random, intermittent problems can be corrected by assuring a sound electrical system and battery! Hope this is helpful.
This would account well for the intermittency among some people who have the problem and the variation in whether the problem occurs at all. If I remember correctly, one or maybe two users in the thread above said they thought the problem might be worse in warmer or moister air, fitting with what you said about the moist tropical air in Hawaii (though I have to say that I always thought of Hawaii's air as balmy and perfect ).
The zoom function is designed to stay zoomed while you focus. And to get out of zoom when anything (or some defined things) change. For buttons it is easy. If you press some, it snaps out of it.
For things that have a more ‚analogue‘ readout, like the aperture on the Loxia. Even if the aperture is not in declicked mode, there seems to be a rather broad range of non-discrete values being communicates from the lens to the body.
The function that needs to make a call whether something ‚changed‘ needs to make ‚threshold‘ check, rather than a binary button check.
In my theory, they might have changed that threshold for those more non-discrete things, or only for the aprerture in particular.
That would explain many things. You might have a body or a firmware with wider or more narrow threshold.
And your particular lens, old or young, might be within the tolerance to trigger.
I have a7R4 and the full set of Loxia lenses. No problems experienced and still using original firmware AFAIK.
Loxia lenses work flawlessly (magnification on focusing) on both my a7R2 bodies as well.
I'm curious why Loxia owners would be attracted to use these lenses on Sony A1 body -- it seems that 61MP sensor would be advantage over 50MP sensor for additional detail. Does the AI have wider latitude for exposure (dynamic range)? I can understand if one is only owning one body that does it all, but hard to understand using A1 if high quality Zeiss/CV MF lenses are a priority.
Not trying to be argumentative.
I certainly see why this issue would be frustrating and unexpected for owners!
Wouldn't the logical answer be that it's the body they have? I know if I spent the money on an a1, which I've thought of, I wouldn't have a lot of $$ to spend on other bodies. I know the "backup" camera argument, but if I had the a1, I'd use it as my primary camera. I know you note all this, so not arguing with anything you're saying. I have an a7R, a7R II, and a7r III...but honestly I really only use the a7R III.
It sort of goes against common expectations that an E mount lens is an E mount lens...and it works on any camera that is an E mount camera. Zeiss should provide some disclaimer if their lenses aren't fully compatible with all Sony E mount cameras. Or should work with Sony to resolve the issues. Another concern is that it may be a problem on all new Sony camera models coming out in the future. So it's a serious concern.
Just my humble opinion.
Gunzorro wrote:
I have a7R4 and the full set of Loxia lenses. No problems experienced and still using original firmware AFAIK.
Loxia lenses work flawlessly (magnification on focusing) on both my a7R2 bodies as well.
I'm curious why Loxia owners would be attracted to use these lenses on Sony A1 body -- it seems that 61MP sensor would be advantage over 50MP sensor for additional detail. Does the AI have wider latitude for exposure (dynamic range)? I can understand if one is only owning one body that does it all, but hard to understand using A1 if high quality Zeiss/CV MF lenses are a priority.
Not trying to be argumentative.
I certainly see why this issue would be frustrating and unexpected for owners! ...Show more →
tsdevine wrote:
Wouldn't the logical answer be that it's the body they have? I know if I spent the money on an a1, which I've thought of, I wouldn't have a lot of $$ to spend on other bodies. I know the "backup" camera argument, but if I had the a1, I'd use it as my primary camera. I know you note all this, so not arguing with anything you're saying. I have an a7R, a7R II, and a7r III...but honestly I really only use the a7R III.
It sort of goes against common expectations that an E mount lens is an E mount lens...and it works on any camera that is an E mount camera. Zeiss should provide some disclaimer if their lenses aren't fully compatible with all Sony E mount cameras. Or should work with Sony to resolve the issues. Another concern is that it may be a problem on all new Sony camera models coming out in the future. So it's a serious concern.
tsdevine wrote:
Wouldn't the logical answer be that it's the body they have? I know if I spent the money on an a1, which I've thought of, I wouldn't have a lot of $$ to spend on other bodies. I know the "backup" camera argument, but if I had the a1, I'd use it as my primary camera. I know you note all this, so not arguing with anything you're saying. I have an a7R, a7R II, and a7r III...but honestly I really only use the a7R III.
It sort of goes against common expectations that an E mount lens is an E mount lens...and it works on any camera that is an E mount camera. Zeiss should provide some disclaimer if their lenses aren't fully compatible with all Sony E mount cameras. Or should work with Sony to resolve the issues. Another concern is that it may be a problem on all new Sony camera models coming out in the future. So it's a serious concern.
.