I have no issues with my 35/2 or 50/2 APO-Lanthars.
Pretty wild that I have issues with all my Loxias....all 4.
chrisd999 wrote:
Does anybody have this issue with the fairly new Voigtlander APO-Lanther 35mm f2? I'm about to pick one up used (out of warranty), but I would think twice if this issue has been reported with that lens.
By the way, another datum point. No such issues with my Loxia 25mm on my A7RV or new A7CR 🤞
Looks more and more like I'll stay parked at a7R4 as my "best" Sony body. Right now, I'm using two a7R2's and one a7R4, so most likely to pick up a nice used a7R4 and use them most often, with a7R2's as back-up or with AF lenses.
I do feel your pain though, you who have owned or bought Loxia and are now having problems with upgraded bodies! I think Sony is at least 50% of the problem for not checking the new bodies and their performance with Sony promoted lenses by Zeiss and other authorized makers before putting the bodies on the market.
I can't complain too much. (But I guess I do.) The only lens I bought before I realized this issue, was the Loxia 21. I bought my current copy of the Loxia 25 (and guinea pig copy) and Loxia 85 AFTER buying the a7R V.
I can work though it, but it is annoying. Meaning if it came down to feeling like I couldn't buy any newer model Sony camera until the end of time, or live with the annoyance, I'd choose the latter.
I just have to find time to ship one of the lenses off to Zeiss to see if I can coax them to fix it. If it comes back fixed and optical performance is the same, then I'll start shipping the others back for a fix. The only one I'd run into issues with is the Loxia 21, as it's well past warranty.
And in terms of who is at fault, at the end of the day the lens isn't performing as expected. If Zeiss tells me that it's Sony's fault, then I'll bug Sony.
My loxia 21mm was ok, but I didn't like the field curvature.
CV 15 and 50mm APO are fine on my A7RV but sadly my most beloved CV 65mm APO is not. My workaround is to spin the aperture back and forth a few times and then it's tolerable for a little while. The problem is that for lenses like the APOs or the Loxias, half the fun is in the joy of using them and that's taken away by the lottery of whether you'll be able to focus or not for half the time!
I predominantly use my Sigma 14-24, so my Loxia 21 doesn't get much love. But I do use it occasionally.
Kind of supports the idea that Loxia are made by Cosina for Zeiss. And the Tamron patents that are dead ringers for some of the Batis makes me believe they are made by Tamron for Zeiss.
I have quite a few CV lenses, but I've only really been using the 35 and 50 APOs, which seem fine. I haven't used my 15, 65, and 110 enough to say they don't have the issue, but I have used them and they seem fine.
dave unwin wrote:
My loxia 21mm was ok, but I didn't like the field curvature.
CV 15 and 50mm APO are fine on my A7RV but sadly my most beloved CV 65mm APO is not. My workaround is to spin the aperture back and forth a few times and then it's tolerable for a little while. The problem is that for lenses like the APOs or the Loxias, half the fun is in the joy of using them and that's taken away by the lottery of whether you'll be able to focus or not for half the time!
'..the idea that Loxia are made by Cosina for Zeiss'
None of the other usual suspects have come forward, have they? The 'for' case includes: the ZMs were Cosina manufacture, two of them were the design basis for the Loxia 35/50 first released pair. It made sense to use the same company to produce these lightly revised designs.
None of the CVs compete directly with any other Loxias, which might be contractual: CV 21s are a small-slow f3.5 and a large-fast f1.4 lens, but the Loxia 21mm is the long-established f2.8 speed for CZ 21s. CV didn't produce a 25mm lens, and they do not make any 85mm lens, fast, medium or slow.
Zeiss have been hiding their loss of interest for almost a decade (Milvus was 2015), but the forum sleuths figured them out thanks to the ZX1 debacle.
Sony is now also actively working against its MF users I believe, chasing the mainstream and hoping users buy their AF gear. I'd say Sony dissuaded Cosina from making more E-mount lenses, but both of them kept it quiet.
See also the focus aids / adapters for MF in Z cameras. Nikon is the new favoured mount for MF users. They have a large installed base of MF lenses and loyal users of them, and now they are discovering their growing CV range. They are up to nine Z lenses from Cosina now, including APS-C.
philip_pj wrote:
'..the idea that Loxia are made by Cosina for Zeiss'
None of the other usual suspects have come forward, have they? The 'for' case includes: the ZMs were Cosina manufacture, two of them were the design basis for the Loxia 35/50 first released pair. It made sense to use the same company to produce these lightly revised designs.
None of the CVs compete directly with any other Loxias, which might be contractual: CV 21s are a small-slow f3.5 and a large-fast f1.4 lens, but the Loxia 21mm is the long-established f2.8 speed for CZ 21s. CV didn't produce a 25mm lens, and they do not make any 85mm lens, fast, medium or slow.
Zeiss have been hiding their loss of interest for almost a decade (Milvus was 2015), but the forum sleuths figured them out thanks to the ZX1 debacle.
Sony is now also actively working against its MF users I believe, chasing the mainstream and hoping users buy their AF gear. I'd say Sony dissuaded Cosina from making more E-mount lenses, but both of them kept it quiet.
See also the focus aids / adapters for MF in Z cameras. Nikon is the new favoured mount for MF users. They have a large installed base of MF lenses and loyal users of them, and now they are discovering their growing CV range. They are up to nine Z lenses from Cosina now, including APS-C. ...Show more →
I've seen BTS shots from at least two different film productions (one Formula 1 and the other the latest Top Gun movie) where they used the Venice II video film camera with the splitter cable so that they only get the sensor module in the line of sight and the the rest of the camera elsewhere, and on the sensor module they have both Loxias (they all look the same from a little distance so I don't know which one) and also Voigtländers (the 15/4.5 for instance which is easy recognizable).
But in general I agree with you that Sony seems to try to drive the film/video industry into using autofocus. I guess since they now have cracked reliable AF-C and tracking in video.
I know Nikon Z has a thinner filter stack which is good for lenses developed originally for film, but what else do they have vs Sony that makes them better for manual focus lenses?
I currently have 9 CV E-mount lenses (15/4.5, 21/1.4, 21/3.5, 35/1.2 SE, 35/1.4, 35/2, 40/1.2 SE, 50/1.2 SE, 50/2) and none of them have exhibited this problem on my new A7CII nor on my earlier bodies (A7C, A9, A7II, A7R). I also had 10/5.6, 65/2, 110/2.5 and the original 40/1.2 and 50/1.2 as well as Loxia 50/2 but I traded them away a couple of years ago so I never used them on the latest bodies. They didn't show the problem on my older bodies.
Not sure how likely the problem is to show on A7CII but I suppose it should be similar to A7CR, A7IV, A7RV in terms of any electronic communication. I was a bit worried about whether the problem would show up after I got A7CII but it has been smooth with no issues.
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I currently have 9 CV E-mount lenses (15/4.5, 21/1.4, 21/3.5, 35/1.2 SE, 35/1.4, 35/2, 40/1.2 SE, 50/1.2 SE, 50/2) and none of them have exhibited this problem on my new A7CII nor on my earlier bodies (A7C, A9, A7II, A7R). I also had 10/5.6, 65/2, 110/2.5 and the original 40/1.2 and 50/1.2 as well as Loxia 50/2 but I traded them away a couple of years ago so I never used them on the latest bodies. They didn't show the problem on my older bodies.
Not sure how likely the problem is to show on A7CII but I suppose it should be similar to A7CR, A7IV, A7RV in terms of any electronic communication. I was a bit worried about whether the problem would show up after I got A7CII but it has been smooth with no issues....Show more →
What we know should be the following (unless my overdue bed time night brain missed something):
Problems with Loxia lenses loosing or refusing to go into magnify mode started when Sony transitioned to the new menus (meaning also new Bionz XR chips). Something in the lens communication changed which made the (some) Loxias get problems.
Old menu bodys have no such problems.
We also know that Samyang got AF-C problems with the A7CII/A7CR with the new AI AF chip but did not have that with the A7RV which also has the AI AF chip. So again Sony must have changed something in the communication when they made the A7CII/A7CR. If that change made any difference (for better or worse) also for Loxia lenses is for me unknown.
lattesweden wrote:
What we know should be the following (unless my overdue bed time night brain missed something):
Problems with Loxia lenses loosing or refusing to go into magnify mode started when Sony transitioned to the new menus (meaning also new Bionz XR chips). Something in the lens communication changed which made the (some) Loxias get problems.
Old menu bodys have no such problems.
We also know that Samyang got AF-C problems with the A7CII/A7CR with the new AI AF chip but did not have that with the A7RV which also has the AI AF chip. So again Sony must have changed something in the communication when they made the A7CII/A7CR. If that change made any difference (for better or worse) also for Loxia lenses is for me unknown....Show more →
I've been reading about he problem in this forum before although I didn't personally run into it. My understanding is that it has something to do with aperture setting value that is communicated through lens to body electronic communication that may somehow fluctuate with some body+lens combinations even when user is not changing the aperture, especially with Loxia lenses and possibly to smaller extent with some CV lenses and more widely with some of the latest Sony bodies, esp. A1.
I agree that it's possible that some changes Sony has made in latest cameras like A7CII and A7CR may have again made some difference on this behavior with lenses that have exhibited these problems. It would be good to know if any other A7CII and A7CR users who have experienced these problems with other bodies are seeing them with their new cameras as well...
With my A7CII I'm still thrown out from magnified view if I change the aperture manually with the CV lenses whlie in magnified view but I've not seen any problems when I'm not modifying the aperture myself. It's also a question why the camera needs to exit magnified view if any aperture change is detected. Similar thing doesn't happen on Fuji cameras (at least on my X-S10 with CV lenses), i.e. aperture changes there don't have any impact on magnified view.
Most users have favorite f-stops. Sticking to these stringently may let corrosion build up.
A practical solution: Why not move through all apertures once at the beginning and at the end of a shooting day as well as when changing lenses?
It will not do much harm and could be preventive. I have seen similar problems with other mechanical appliances when only a few (of many) optional settings are used regularly.
Multiple brand new Loxia's immediately exhibit this on my a7R V. For me it doesn't seem to be wear and tear related. Although I guess your argument is lack of changing aperture...which if these sat on the shelf for years, would match your scenario. I would think they'd get better though after use.
I occasionally focus at shooting aperture, but most of the time I'm changing aperture to focus and then stopping down to the aperture I want to shoot.
I will send one of mine in for warranty service this month. I want to include some references to a fix....like the Zeiss official FB group saying it was a known problem, and if I was in Europe I could send it in for a fix. And that other anecdotal report that they sent theirs in and it said that replaced a faulty aperture encoder (something like that.)
Knut. wrote:
Most users have favorite f-stops. Sticking to these stringently may let corrosion build up.
A practical solution: Why not move through all apertures once at the beginning and at the end of a shooting day as well as when changing lenses?
It will not do much harm and could be preventive. I have seen similar problems with other mechanical appliances when only a few (of many) optional settings are used regularly.
I have all the Loxia lenses. Curious to see if they work on the a7cr, that would be my next upgrade. Currently running the a7r3 with zero issues. I only read the 1st 2 and last 3 pages of this thread...Any issues with the a7r4?
I don't think as many. Seems like things started to go south with the a1. But I do think I remember a person or two having issues with cams prior to the a1....unless my memory is failing.
Matt Kerby wrote:
I have all the Loxia lenses. Curious to see if they work on the a7cr, that would be my next upgrade. Currently running the a7r3 with zero issues. I only read the 1st 2 and last 3 pages of this thread...Any issues with the a7r4?
Matt Kerby wrote:
I have all the Loxia lenses. Curious to see if they work on the a7cr, that would be my next upgrade. Currently running the a7r3 with zero issues. I only read the 1st 2 and last 3 pages of this thread...Any issues with the a7r4?
I have all the Loxias and the Voigtländer 4.5/15 E-mount and I had the Voigtländer Apo-Lanthar 2/35 for a while. None of these lenses have or had issues on the A7R4 in the past 4 years.
The issue is there on all "new menu" Sony cameras. I clearly remember people complaining about it starting to get noticeable with A7SIII and I'm pretty sure I've seen one report on A7C II / R (fun fact: I had it happen occasionally on A7III + CV35/1.4 Classic). It's just the luck of the draw (body + lens particular copies combo).
There's a tiny chance new firmware fixes it, but without proper testing it's setting yourself up for disappointment IMHO...
It's not just new menu cameras though. The 1st copy of a 65mm VC I had was unusable. I tested it on both of my A7R2 bodies and a 6300. A couple of others had the same issue ... 2017
