gdsf2 wrote:
It has to be a significantly less than the 600 f/4 or else folks would go with that as it also gives you 840 f/5.6. So, I am pretty sure it will be less than $9K
Now that I've seen the previous silhouette of the 800PF grow in girth and length in the final lens image my previous thinking about the 600S has gone out the window.
I'm now of the mind that the 600S will have the built-in TC and will grow substantially on the roadmap once the lens gets pre-announced or final announcement.
The typical length delta between a 400 and 600 will likely be restored. This delta will also be seen in the MSRP where as the 600 is usually $1000 more expensive than the similar gen 400.
This could mean a $15K MSRP for the 600, hence making a $9-10K 800PF still a very different beast for price point.
Anyways, that is where my thinking is going now. My previous misconception that the silhouettes were accurate has been discarded.
I’d be concerned about IQ threshold, but if that combo is excellent then that’s a fantastic value proposition!
this is me wrote:
If you want a 800pf under 5 figures, this is what the 400mm f4 PF will be. Put on a 2x TC to get a 800 f8 pf. This will be a full stop slower than the 800f5.6 that cost $17k.
arbitrage wrote:
Now that I've seen the previous silhouette of the 800PF grow in girth and length in the final lens image my previous thinking about the 600S has gone out the window.
I'm now of the mind that the 600S will have the built-in TC and will grow substantially on the roadmap once the lens gets pre-announced or final announcement.
The typical length delta between a 400 and 600 will likely be restored. This delta will also be seen in the MSRP where as the 600 is usually $1000 more expensive than the similar gen 400.
This could mean a $15K MSRP for the 600, hence making a $9-10K 800PF still a very different beast for price point.
Anyways, that is where my thinking is going now. My previous misconception that the silhouettes were accurate has been discarded. ...Show more →
I hope you are right about the 800PF at 9-10K, and not the same price league of the 400-600 lenses.
I just put my order in today for a Z9, and it will have the adapted 500PF on it, but I am making this move solely for the 800PF. Without the 800PF I would be transitioning to all Sony by now, and no way would I have bought a 1,35 kg camera body.
The 800PF is a fact now, and will be top end. For me, on a full frame body that is sort of a dream lens in its PF form. I am taking a real bet that it won't be priced higher than 10k, it can go anywhere with Nikon selling 1000,- lens hoods...
I just don't see how this is going to be a lightweight lens. It has the same front element diameter as a 500/4 basically. Haven't read all 12 pages though is the weight known? 500/5.6 has a much smaller front element requirement although a little over 3 lbs is still really good imo.
You can see the 800 also has the ugly yellow text printed on its neck, like the 400. You can’t read the text, but my mind immediately raced to a built-in 1.2x TC to make the lens also function as a 960/8. Especially with the new longer design.
If I squint, I’m guessing the text says something like “phase fresnel optics” or something like that. And I don’t see a big hump on the 800 like I do on the 400. So my fever dream of Nikon building TCs into all super-teles is surely not going to happen. But it sure would be great if the 600 also had a TC built in!
Based on the pricing of Nikon's super-tele lenses, the recent tech advances in the 400 f2.8S, and amount of glass required to make an 800mm f6.3 lens, I think that dreams of a sub $11,000 US 800mm lens may be a bit of wishful thinking.
While I have absolutely no knowledge of Nikon's pricing scheme, the current price of an 800mm f/5.6E and 400mm f2.8S suggest that if Nikon were to use their new motor tech and PF glass in an 800mm lens, it is going to be very expensive. In fact, Nikon may push the price as high as a traditional 600mm f/4 with the selling point that their new lens is significantly lighter than their previous version.
Furthermore, it the 600mm f/4 has a built in converter making it an 800mm f/5.6, it is possible that this new 600mm lens will push into the $16000 range.
I think that Nikon will be using their 100-400, 400mm f4.5(?) and 200-600mm as more budget friendly alternatives. Finally, while I am doubtful that the 200-600 will have the new AF motor tech, I think a 400mm f4.5 PF w/ new AF motor tech would make it worth a more premium price that approaches $4000 US.
I agree with you about the 100-400, 200-600, and 400 forming the low end of the lineup, Bruce.
I think the 400 coming in at $4k would make it a very hard sell, however. The 500PF puts a price cap on the 400, unless the 400 is considerably ether than the 500 in some way. And how could it be?
I don’t think 800 PF will have the new motors. Also, even though it has a large front element, the lens gets fairly narrow quickly which means the other elements are not huge. Also, it may not have any fluorite elements which are very expensive. So I think it will be around $9-10k.
gdsf2 wrote:
I don’t think 800 PF will have the new motors. Also, even though it has a large front element, the lens gets fairly narrow quickly which means the other elements are not huge. Also, it may not have any fluorite elements which are very expensive. So I think it will be around $9-10k.
You may be right. The 400S is a fast action lens, designed to take full benefit from the Z9's processing power. The 800PF may have a different profile, more geared towards pure reach and maximum IQ at distance, instead of being a top end action lens.
It will be interesting to see how Nikon has meant this lens to be, and how much of a "pro" lens they mean this to be. It may be much more a pure wildlife/nature lens, and have more modest AF tech.
Also, it is a PF lens despite the large front element, so the weight total of the glass will definitely be lower than the 400S.
I can understand the price of the 400S, being Nikon's top sports lens for demanding professionals. I'm still not sure they will price the 800PF accordingly, but it is possible.
ChrisMak wrote:
You may be right. The 400S is a fast action lens, designed to take full benefit from the Z9's processing power. The 800PF may have a different profile, more geared towards pure reach and maximum IQ at distance, instead of being a top end action lens.
It will be interesting to see how Nikon has meant this lens to be, and how much of a "pro" lens they mean this to be. It may be much more a pure wildlife/nature lens, and have more modest AF tech.
Also, it is a PF lens despite the large front element, so the weight total of the glass will definitely be lower than the 400S.
I can understand the price of the 400S, being Nikon's top sports lens for demanding professionals. I'm still not sure they will price the 800PF accordingly, but it is possible....Show more →
I am sure it will focus plenty fast. And even if they use voice coils, they are not expensive. Cell phone lenses use them (tiny ones).
gdsf2 wrote:
I don’t think 800 PF will have the new motors. Also, even though it has a large front element, the lens gets fairly narrow quickly which means the other elements are not huge. Also, it may not have any fluorite elements which are very expensive. So I think it will be around $9-10k.
So you expect a heavy (no fluorite), kind of slow focusing (old motor tech.), dark (f6.3) lens for about $10K.
While I have no idea what it will be, the above combo, would very much surprise me if it was a big seller.
I don’t think so. This is a premium optic. It will have fast AF and be about the size of a 500mm f4. I expect it to sell for $8-$10k. But if it is more it still would be worth it considering the size and price of the f5.6 version.
RoyC wrote:
So you expect a heavy (no fluorite), kind of slow focusing (old motor tech.), dark (f6.3) lens for about $10K.
While I have no idea what it will be, the above combo, would very much surprise me if it was a big seller.
jwolfe wrote:
I don’t think so. This is a premium optic. It will have fast AF and be about the size of a 500mm f4. I expect it to sell for $8-$10k. But if it is more it still would be worth it considering the size and price of the f5.6 version.
Why are you responding to me for? I was just summarizing someone else's ideas.
ilkka_nissila wrote:
f/6.3 is fast for an 800mm lens; only 1/3 stop slower than the fastest 800mm lenses on the market and 1.7 stops faster than the 800mm f/11 from Canon.
Since the focusing elements are likely small (as in the 500 PF), focus should be very fast.
Fluorite is not needed in a PF lens to make it lightweight.
