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New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022

  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.26 #1 · p.26 #1 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


rscheffler wrote:
Yes and no. As you may recall with the 50 Lux ASPH, FC/mid-zone weakness becomes more noticeable a couple stops down until overtaken by DOF around f/5.6.

Your results don't really align with what I've seen in the only full-res images from this lens so far: those from BostonBoy over at DPR shot on the M10-R. His stopped down far distance images show signs of mid-zone weakness, though I'm not sure if it's FC.

As a reminder, this is one of his images which shows funkiness:

https://i.postimg.cc/Hs6CwwWG/c559adc75bfa4a5ca1dbfe005f71aefd-RINGS.jpg

(I added the red circles to indicate the area which appears to be affected). If you go
...Show more

There is a mid-zone dip around the area you demonstrated with the red line. Most fast 50mm lenses have some dip in resolution around that area. There are exceptions like well corrected lenses like the 50/1.2 GM but still there is a tiny dip there.



Feb 03, 2022 at 09:57 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.26 #2 · p.26 #2 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Here is another test at 3-meter distance. (wide open)

We can see the curve now.





Focus at 3m distance







Find edges to we can follow the focus curve




Feb 03, 2022 at 10:18 AM
rscheffler
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p.26 #3 · p.26 #3 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Very interesting! The field does seem pretty flat, but curves a bit away from the camera at the edges. I guess a combo of moderate FC and increased edge DOF due to optical vignetting.


Feb 03, 2022 at 10:26 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.26 #4 · p.26 #4 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Here is the focus curve at f/1, f/2 and f/2.8. (all focused at center, 3-meter distance)

At wide apertures, it shows the focal plane bending away from the camera

This is definitely a contributor and together with the pronounced optical vignetting, we get the rendering unevenness effect in real world images.





f/1







f/2







f/2.8




Feb 03, 2022 at 10:36 AM
BastianK
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p.26 #5 · p.26 #5 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Doesn't look perfectly centered to me either, already had that feeling in the hydrant shot.
Most likely as good as one can expect of an f/1.0 lens though.



Feb 03, 2022 at 10:48 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.26 #6 · p.26 #6 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


BastianK wrote:
Doesn't look perfectly centered to me either, already had that feeling in the hydrant shot.
Most likely as good as one can expect of an f/1.0 lens though.


Although not perfect, it's well centered considering the F/1 aperture and 40MP sensor. Here are some crops showing the extreme edge and mid-zone (big images, expand the browser window to see the full pixels).

PS: This was a quick test and not aligned perfectly






















Feb 03, 2022 at 11:03 AM
CheshireCat
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p.26 #7 · p.26 #7 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


BastianK wrote:
Doesn't look perfectly centered to me either, already had that feeling in the hydrant shot.
Most likely as good as one can expect of an f/1.0 lens though.


My thought exactly. I was blaming the uneven terrain but it seems too much of a coincidence to form the same shape in different shots.
Maybe some of the most dramatic FC we saw in shots posted on other forums were due to higher levels of decentering/tilting.
If so, I would expect better for the price.



Feb 03, 2022 at 11:04 AM
BastianK
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p.26 #8 · p.26 #8 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Fred Miranda wrote:
Although not perfect, it's well centered considering the F/1 aperture and 40MP sensor.

With a lens like this (very high optical vignetting) I was always of the opinion that placing a subject in the midframe area
- where there is also the biggest drop in sharpness - would be the right thing to do as a centering test.
But it comes with a plethora of additional issues, like finding the same exact position relative to the center in all 4 quadrants, so I never did it myself either.
And I think the "corner" decentering test will still be able to sort out the real lemons.

Nervertheless, I think it is the same effect you described about the VM 50mm 1.2, saying there were samples that seemed well centered but some with issues in the midfield area and some without (or less).

Here I also see noticeably more coma/astigmatism in picture 4 vs picture 3.
But for an f/1.0 lens, I also think this is in the margin of being very much acceptable.

View previous versions



Feb 03, 2022 at 11:09 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.26 #9 · p.26 #9 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


BastianK wrote:
With a lens like this (very high optical vignetting) I was always of the opinion that placing a subject in the midframe area
- where there is also the biggest drop in sharpness - would be the right thing to do as a centering test.
But it comes with a plethora of additional issues, like finding the same exact position relative to the center in all 4 quadrants, so I never did it myself either.
And I think the "corner" decentering test will still be able to sort out the real lemons.

Nervertheless, I think it is the same effect you described about the
...Show more

Yes, I agree with your comment that mid-zone is more crucial when testing these fast lenses for centering as the extreme corners are too compromised for accuracy.
Although not perfect, I find this copy more than acceptable for testing and doing a review considering MP and maximum aperture. I have seen real lemons and it does not look pretty.



Feb 03, 2022 at 11:12 AM
rscheffler
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p.26 #10 · p.26 #10 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Fred Miranda wrote:
Although not perfect, it's well centered considering the F/1 aperture and 40MP sensor. Here are some crops showing the extreme edge and mid-zone.


For f/1 that looks pretty darn good to me!

I wonder how much control lens designers have over FC relative to other design priorities and why it's so typical for rangefinder lenses to have curvature away from the camera?

I'd really like to have been a fly on the wall at the design discussions for this lens to have a better understanding of the priorities. A 50/1 seems destined to be shot wide open for as much bokeh blur as possible. Yet the resulting FC and optical vignetting combines to work against this.

That said, I do think the lens performs impressively in the plane of focus for its speed and size. Sample images at nearer distances IMO have clarity and contrast I would expect instead from a modern fast portrait tele.



Feb 03, 2022 at 11:23 AM
 


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mapgraphs
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p.26 #11 · p.26 #11 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Fred Miranda wrote:
Here is the focus curve at f/1, f/2 and f/2.8. (all focused at center, 3-meter distance)
...


This is pretty much what I would expect.

I have lenses that show this and others that curve inwards at the edges. It's hard to judge conclusively about centering with uneven ground and light.

What I'm seeing so far is what I would expect from a fast VM Nokton. Kudos to the designer.



Feb 03, 2022 at 11:24 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.26 #12 · p.26 #12 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


mapgraphs wrote:
This is pretty much what I would expect.

I have lenses that show this and others that curve inwards at the edges. It's hard to judge conclusively about centering with uneven ground and light.

What I'm seeing so far is what I would expect from a fast VM Nokton. Kudos to the designer.


Yes, the curve symmetry is also affected by other variables like ground evenness and camera not being perfectly level.
The important part of this test is that now we see a slight curvature at this distance with the focal plane bending away from the camera as it gets further off axis.



Feb 03, 2022 at 11:41 AM
SoulKey
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p.26 #13 · p.26 #13 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


I own and shoot the Nokton 50/1.2 VM and have also shot and tested the Mitakon 50/0.95 III E-Mount Version (already sold) and the TTArtisan 50/0.95 (still have it). I was SUPER interested in the new 50/1.

A bit off-topic (but I hope you dont mind and for some people here it might be of interest)... They share a target audience, so here's a quick quick summary. The Mitakon is the smoothest in rendering (and the most blur), but has an irritatingly long focus throw which made the lens very inconvenient to operate. The color output is vastly different from the others and while it can be corrected in post, I felt like the color information is a little bit lacking. The lens feels super solid but not so convenient to hold as the TTA. It is also the longest lens of those 3 - the other two are noticably wider.

The TTArtisan was a bit sharper and the build quality is beautiful I think (8/10). It has a very beautiful build and the rednering from short to mid distance is beautiful and indistracting. At long distance the bokeh gets rough and the lens is clearly less sharp than the Nokton.

Now the Nokton 50/1.2 is pretty close to a perfect lens, which is why I was very interested and intrigued by the 50/1 (and almost ordered it blindly). Build quality is 10/10, just perfect in all regards. Super light, super small. I still was curious if the 50/1 might be even a step up. After reviewing all those pictures, I am very glad I didn't make the purchase. I don't like the sharp and contrasty look and use the glowy wide-open look on short distance intentionally and alot for portraiture and Fine Art stuff. I expected the new lens to be the ultimate butter in terms of rendering, but priorities seemed to be something else.

I am following this thread daily for quite a long time and wanted to say how much I appreciate this discussion. The most valuable forum on the net, I would say.

TL;DR: I'm keeping the Nokton 50/1.2 VM.



Feb 03, 2022 at 02:59 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.26 #14 · p.26 #14 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Thanks for your comment and welcome to FM!
I have started the CV 50/1 Nokton review here:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1741370

SoulKey wrote:
I own and shoot the Nokton 50/1.2 VM and have also shot and tested the Mitakon 50/0.95 III E-Mount Version (already sold) and the TTArtisan 50/0.95 (still have it). I was SUPER interested in the new 50/1.

A bit off-topic (but I hope you dont mind and for some people here it might be of interest)... They share a target audience, so here's a quick quick summary. The Mitakon is the smoothest in rendering (and the most blur), but has an irritatingly long focus throw which made the lens very inconvenient to operate. The color output is vastly different from the
...Show more



Feb 03, 2022 at 03:04 PM
demytty
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p.26 #15 · p.26 #15 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


Can you find an indoor/outdoor setting with a flat textured surface?
A grass tennis court? An athletic/play court with a 'rubberized' surface?
Indoors maybe a shag carpeted room?

It has to be really, really flat to not 'throw off' any nit-picking analysis.

(Keep the light behind you to minimize effect lens flare and increase contrast.)

Sample pics from the GFX in the above settings will show the effect of the short length of the lens (optical vignetting) and manufacturing flaws (variable smearing) when using the 'find edges' feature.



Feb 03, 2022 at 04:04 PM
AlanD
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p.26 #16 · p.26 #16 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


With a theoretically perfectly planar lens, focus/recompose should induce a bit of back focusing so you would want to adjust the focus a bit closer.

BUT, if the field curvature is coming toward you, does this mean that the VM 50/1.0 is correcting for potential errors with focus/recompose?

I.E. what if you focus/recompose to put the subject in the rule of 3rd's positions?



Feb 03, 2022 at 04:11 PM
rscheffler
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p.26 #17 · p.26 #17 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


AlanD wrote:
With a theoretically perfectly planar lens, focus/recompose should induce a bit of back focusing so you would want to adjust the focus a bit closer.

BUT, if the field curvature is coming toward you, does this mean that the VM 50/1.0 is correcting for potential errors with focus/recompose?

I.E. what if you focus/recompose to put the subject in the rule of 3rd's positions?


The VM50/1 field curvature is in the other direction, away from the camera. Focus and recompose would result in back focus. I had the 28 Cron v1 and it also had FC away from the camera. I had to front focus a touch extra for off center subjects at closer distances...

If FC was towards the camera I think opinions would be much more tolerant of such FC because it would blur the background more and maybe somewhat counteract the edge sharpening caused by optical vignetting.



Feb 03, 2022 at 07:48 PM
rscheffler
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p.26 #18 · p.26 #18 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


SoulKey wrote:
Now the Nokton 50/1.2 is pretty close to a perfect lens, which is why I was very interested and intrigued by the 50/1 (and almost ordered it blindly). Build quality is 10/10, just perfect in all regards. Super light, super small. I still was curious if the 50/1 might be even a step up. After reviewing all those pictures, I am very glad I didn't make the purchase. I don't like the sharp and contrasty look and use the glowy wide-open look on short distance intentionally and alot for portraiture and Fine Art stuff. I expected the new lens to
...Show more

I don't disagree with your reasoning and why you prefer the 50/1.2. It's just that there are quite a lot of fast 50s that show SA glow at nearer distances and wider apertures. In this regard, it's a fairly crowded field (of course each lens will still have distinctive characteristics that separate it from the others).

IMO, the 50/1 is possibly the only ultrafast 50mm M lens that is sharp and clean looking wide open, at all distances, other than perhaps the 50/0.95 Nocti (with which I have extremely limited hands-on time - and it was in poor light), and is a fraction of the Nocti's cost.

Perhaps a reason Cosina went this way with the 50/1 was precisely because the 50/1.2 was already so good at delivering the results you like. Why repeat it only 2/3 stop faster? Why not something that isn't currently available to M system users at this price point?

Now Cosina offers sharp 50/1 and 50/1.5 (v2) lenses, a glowy at near distances 50/1.2 and a 50/1.5 soft wide open character lens (Heliar). Seems like a pretty good spread.



Feb 04, 2022 at 12:47 AM
mapgraphs
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p.26 #19 · p.26 #19 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


While waiting on some sample monochromes, I saw this thread on RFF featuring some of the Leica equivalents... some interesting takes on how one might use a Noct. If you're curious, scroll up for those by Vince Lupo and Jordan Dickinson. (Patience, the site can be sloooow.)


https://www.rangefinderforum.com/node/50406/page96#post4770150



Feb 04, 2022 at 07:05 AM
genji
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p.26 #20 · p.26 #20 · New Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton in January 2022


mapgraphs wrote:
While waiting on some sample monochromes, I saw this thread on RFF featuring some of the Leica equivalents... some interesting takes on how one might use a Noct. If you're curious, scroll up for those by Vince Lupo and Jordan Dickinson. (Patience, the site can be sloooow.)

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/node/50406/page96#post4770150


Thank you for the link. Vince Lupo’s work is superb.



Feb 04, 2022 at 07:45 AM
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