gannis wrote:
Agree. The 400 vs 600 conflict is back and it is even worse (in a nice way) with the in-built TCs in place. I am a mixed wildlife shooter too and had a dilemma when i had to decide between 400 E vs 600 E. I rented out both and was more interested in comparing the 400 with 2X as against 600 with 1.4X and didn't really notice a big difference. Maybe the 600 with 1.4 had a slight edge in terms of AF and lens balance but i found the 400 with 2X was very good optically. In the end i chose the 400 because of the 400mm focal length and f 2.8 which is very handy for mammals in dense forests. My plan B was to buy a 600 F4 and a 300 F4 PF but there was something a little "extra" about the 400 E that made me chose one.
With the new Z teles we are left with the following choices:
For birders the 600 is hard to beat but for mixed shooters i think the 400 will be a great choice, particularly if the AF performance at 800 5.6 is better than the DSLRs..for me personally, 800mm is about as long as i'd get to considering all the atmospheric challenges...
Thanks for your input. I agree, I hardly ever go more than 800mm anyhow.
I used to shoot 500/4e with D850 quite a bit and I found it to be a good compromise between reach and size.
I switched to 600/4 FL when I got D6 as I found I needed more reach as I cannot crop as much.
800mm sometimes is not quite enough for D6 but Z9 should give more room to crop.
I certainly saw plenty of impressive photos with 400/2.8 + TCx2 so this should work.
chambeshi wrote:
The NR sifted estimates from the comments into the images they collated. Hence the variation, and errors
I agree one would expect the Z9 to be wider than a Z7. Even compared to the D850, the wider D5 and D6 add that much more room for one's fingers to grip the heavier camera, and reach at the front buttons. The estimate scaled against the width of the 24-70 f2.8S is probably the more accurate benchmark. So.... using the estimated ratio of 85% smaller than the D6, the Z9 ~ 135 width x 139mm height
I think that by using the front of the 24-70 lens as the guide could be probelamtic as it is 100mm in front of the grip and thus would present larger in the photo compared to the rest of the camera and thus would not give an accurate ratio of size. I used a few other measurements from the camera itself to get what I think is a more accurate guide as to the size, like the hotshoe cover. I also decided that the overall width of the camera would have to be similar to the Z7II. When I use these as guides, then it all seems to fall into place, and we get about 135mm high which seems to be about right.
Anyway, it's good to speculate and then see how well we did once the camera is released. At the sizes we have discussed, about 135mm wide x 135mm high, this seems to be a good compromise size when we think it will have performance at least as good as the D6, which I feel is just too big, IMO.
Looking at the picture from the Olympic in comparison to 180-400/4, I really think that the body is not going to that much smaller than D6 in term of width. May be a bit less height and thinner for sure (assume top LCD screen is about the same size as Z7 ii).
In a way, I really like R3 size in comparison to D1x iii. But looks like Z9 may be even more comfortable to hold because of deeper grip (grip does not look bigger than D6 but since the body is thinner, I think the grip is deeper).
I have a much different perspective on the Z9 now than I did 3 months ago.
I made a very expensive brand switch to Nikon after 5 years with Canon solely on the proposed specs of the Z9.
However, I have been using the camera the Z9 is supposed to replace the past 5 weeks for my business and I am now asking myself if I really need to put the D6 out to pasture in early '22.
You see the D6 has performed admirably on every assignment, whether it be action, team sports, portraits or photojournalism,
Last week I photographed hundreds of athletes in all settings and the images from the current Nikon flagship were outstanding and the camera did not miss a beat in 90 degree temps with no signs of overheating or poor battery performance.
So, my guess is, I have the rest of August and all of September, October, November and December plus the first 2 months of 2022 before the Z9 is available for purchase.
In the meantime, I am relying on Nikon's best camera, to date, to see me through the next 6 months and thousands of images still need to be taken.
...and I have yet to see a single image from the future Nikon flagship and in fact, only one image of the camera, in testing, was shown and the view screen was duct taped.
The Z9, on paper, sounds like it will be an incredible camera but after 6 months of income-producing with the D6, I don't know if I will have the heart to give it a new home in February of 2022 after being such an important part of the business?
leewoolery wrote:
I have a much different perspective on the Z9 now than I did 3 months ago.
I made a very expensive brand switch to Nikon after 5 years with Canon solely on the proposed specs of the Z9.
However, I have been using the camera the Z9 is supposed to replace the past 5 weeks for my business and I am now asking myself if I really need to put the D6 out to pasture in early '22.
You see the D6 has performed admirably on every assignment, whether it be action, team sports, portraits or photojournalism,
Last week I photographed hundreds of athletes in all settings and the images from the current Nikon flagship were outstanding and the camera did not miss a beat in 90 degree temps with no signs of overheating or poor battery performance.
So, my guess is, I have the rest of August and all of September, October, November and December plus the first 2 months of 2022 before the Z9 is available for purchase.
In the meantime, I am relying on Nikon's best camera, to date, to see me through the next 6 months and thousands of images still need to be taken.
...and I have yet to see a single image from the future Nikon flagship and in fact, only one image of the camera, in testing, was shown and the view screen was duct taped.
The Z9, on paper, sounds like it will be an incredible camera but after 6 months of income-producing with the D6, I don't know if I will have the heart to give it a new home in February of 2022 after being such an important part of the business?
D6 is an excellent camera for sure.
The main reason for me to upgrade to Z9 from D6 is that I shoot quite a bit of birds and 20mp even with 600/4e FL still does not give me enough reach and require quite a bit of cropping, even with TC1.4.
I also really like AF points that cover most of the frame.
14 FPS is not bad but now that competitors go up to at least 20 fps, suddenly 14 is not enough
Will have to wait and see. I think some of the rumored specs are not entirely accurate at the moment but I think Z9 will
be a lot of fun.
Well.... I for one dearly hope this meme of yours does not become widely known. I've been looking forward to the arrival of the Z9 elicit the liberation of almost new D6's into Used inventories (with yet more D5's)
More seriously, I agree 100% and enjoy all your great posts on the D6. Based on now accepted wisdom (among most photographers at least), we can expect the Z9 will deliver all the positive features of a mirrorless camera, but on some flavour of strong steroids. Besides some photographers struggling with an EVF, the high price of a flagship FX camera is a fundamental barrier to purchase. And RRP will probably stay high as Nikon will be selling every copy they make well into next year.
The main feature I look for is silent-shooting via the EVF, as well as the full screen AF. However, I find the tighter AF window of the D5 and D850 is rarely an obstacle on most subjects/scenes. It is also likely Nikon will improve Customization options of the D6 in future firmware, as they did earlier this year (and also seem to have updated aspects of the autofocus tracking according to Moose Peterson).
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leewoolery wrote:
I have a much different perspective on the Z9 now than I did 3 months ago.
I made a very expensive brand switch to Nikon after 5 years with Canon solely on the proposed specs of the Z9.
However, I have been using the camera the Z9 is supposed to replace the past 5 weeks for my business and I am now asking myself if I really need to put the D6 out to pasture in early '22.
You see the D6 has performed admirably on every assignment, whether it be action, team sports, portraits or photojournalism,
Last week I photographed hundreds of athletes in all settings and the images from the current Nikon flagship were outstanding and the camera did not miss a beat in 90 degree temps with no signs of overheating or poor battery performance.
So, my guess is, I have the rest of August and all of September, October, November and December plus the first 2 months of 2022 before the Z9 is available for purchase.
In the meantime, I am relying on Nikon's best camera, to date, to see me through the next 6 months and thousands of images still need to be taken.
...and I have yet to see a single image from the future Nikon flagship and in fact, only one image of the camera, in testing, was shown and the view screen was duct taped.
The Z9, on paper, sounds like it will be an incredible camera but after 6 months of income-producing with the D6, I don't know if I will have the heart to give it a new home in February of 2022 after being such an important part of the business?
The more I look at the Z9 specs and come to the realization that it will probably $6500+, the more I think I will be sticking with DSLR bodies for my long glass. The reality of limited budgets and diminishing returns have me rethinking how I want to organize my bag. If the Z6ii firmware upgrade is a real improvement, it may be all I need from a mirrorless camera for the next few years.
I truly miss not having a 200-400mm f/4 and am seriously consider the sale (or trade) of my 500PF for a clean and well functioning 200-400mm VRii. Used with a D5 or Z6ii w/1.4x, this combination falls within my most used focal length.
The D500 + 500PF has been loads of fun, and has been my most used wildlife combination. Yet, I often find that it is too tight for the way I like to compose my photos.
While I know that this is a Z9 speculation thread, the possibility that the Z9 will put downward pricing pressure on used D5 cameras have left me wondering if the benefits of mirrorless will really result in a tangible change that is worth the price to play.
At this point, I have a nice mix of Z bodies + glass that optimize the current performance of the Z-system. At the same time, the best F-mount telephoto lenses are optimized for DSLRs. I could live a lifetime before I ever made the most of a D5 and a lens like the 400mm f/2.8 FLE or 200-400mm VRii (or better yet 180-400 f/4).
New gear is attractive, but high-end quality gear at bargain basement prices allows for more exotic travel adventures.
chambeshi wrote:
Well.... I for one dearly hope this meme of yours does not become widely known. I've been looking forward to the arrival of the Z9 elicit the liberation of almost new D6's into Used inventories (with yet more D5's)
It seems that all those Nikon and DSLRs are dead writers/YouTubers are working on bringing your wishes to fruition. They have your best interests at heart. Maybe you should be more supportive of them.
If I see that the Z9 is out of this world with ISO's of 6400-20,000 equal to or better than the D6 and the 120-300 f/2.8E performs flawlessly with the EF adapter, I may sell off most of my current gear and have a one camera/lens for portraits, ice hockey, gymnastics, basketball, football and soccer plus adding a 1.4 teleconverter for baseball, softball, tennis and track.
45 megapixels would give outstanding cropping capabilities to field sports such as soccer and football.
My loyalty to gear or a specific brand is superceded by performance and image quality.
Currently, the D6 and the 400 f/2.8 and 200-400 F/4 do everything I need them to do so I can sit tight until unbiased field test reviews of the Z9 start showing up in the spring and then make a responsible business decision.
When I was out on my kayak this morning with a 600 f/4 I kept running into situations where I realized the ideal lens would be a 400/2.8 with built-in TC so that I could instantly switch as things changed around me without fiddling with TCs in the kayak. hmmmm......
arbitrage wrote:
When I was out on my kayak this morning with a 600 f/4 I kept running into situations where I realized the ideal lens would be a 400/2.8 with built-in TC so that I could instantly switch as things changed around me without fiddling with TCs in the kayak. hmmmm......
Yup, smeems Nikon will do the obvious thing everyone hesitated to do And I guess sony and canon will follow with their next iterations.
Will it be enough for nikon to regain their market share? And if so, will they lure canon or sony users?
Look at dpreview video review briefly. Love the body design of R3 very much.
Z9 won't be much smaller than D6 though, just thinner and a tad shorter.
I like the customized zone focus. D6 has something similar that cover less of the frame.
I hope Z9 will have custom group focus. Current preproduction firmware does not have it
but I hope Nikon will not leave it out in the final product.
With the announcement of the Z9, Nikon committed to developing a camera that exceeds the D6 flagship.
I believe the Z9 is going to be *much* more than people are expecting it will be. I've been with Nikon a very long time and it seems to me that this is one of those times Nikon leap frogs over the other two competitors. We will soon see.
For me (at least initially), it will probably come down to money ($6000+ ) and weight (of the 400 2.8 w/built-in TC).
The rationale that Bruce posted above does make sense.
oh..so does the preproduction firmware then have the standard group af area modes? come on..what are you not telling us
suteetat wrote:
Look at dpreview video review briefly. Love the body design of R3 very much.
Z9 won't be much smaller than D6 though, just thinner and a tad shorter.
I like the customized zone focus. D6 has something similar that cover less of the frame.
I hope Z9 will have custom group focus. Current preproduction firmware does not have it
but I hope Nikon will not leave it out in the final product.
suteetat wrote:
Look at dpreview video review briefly. Love the body design of R3 very much.
Z9 won't be much smaller than D6 though, just thinner and a tad shorter.
I like the customized zone focus. D6 has something similar that cover less of the frame.
I hope Z9 will have custom group focus. Current preproduction firmware does not have it
but I hope Nikon will not leave it out in the final product.
The customizable Zone modes was something that I really envied on the D6 and now envy on the R3.
I hope Nikon comes to their senses and revamps the AF modes in the Z9 and doesn't just rehash the Z6/7 modes. I really didn't get on well with the current Z selection.
The Z9 will have to at least equal my D5 in high ISO and focus tracking to have me switch. I look forward to the day I can handhold a full frame body with a 400/2.8 all day.
« I could live a lifetime before I ever made the most of a D5 and a lens like the 400mm f/2.8 FLE or 200-400mm VRii (or better yet 180-400 f/4). ».
Indeed!
OwlsEyes wrote:
The more I look at the Z9 specs and come to the realization that it will probably $6500+, the more I think I will be sticking with DSLR bodies for my long glass. The reality of limited budgets and diminishing returns have me rethinking how I want to organize my bag. If the Z6ii firmware upgrade is a real improvement, it may be all I need from a mirrorless camera for the next few years.
I truly miss not having a 200-400mm f/4 and am seriously consider the sale (or trade) of my 500PF for a clean and well functioning 200-400mm VRii. Used with a D5 or Z6ii w/1.4x, this combination falls within my most used focal length.
The D500 + 500PF has been loads of fun, and has been my most used wildlife combination. Yet, I often find that it is too tight for the way I like to compose my photos.
While I know that this is a Z9 speculation thread, the possibility that the Z9 will put downward pricing pressure on used D5 cameras have left me wondering if the benefits of mirrorless will really result in a tangible change that is worth the price to play.
At this point, I have a nice mix of Z bodies + glass that optimize the current performance of the Z-system. At the same time, the best F-mount telephoto lenses are optimized for DSLRs. I could live a lifetime before I ever made the most of a D5 and a lens like the 400mm f/2.8 FLE or 200-400mm VRii (or better yet 180-400 f/4).
New gear is attractive, but high-end quality gear at bargain basement prices allows for more exotic travel adventures.
Interesting times to be a Nikon shooter.
bruce ...Show more →
arbitrage wrote:
The customizable Zone modes was something that I really envied on the D6 and now envy on the R3.
I hope Nikon comes to their senses and revamps the AF modes in the Z9 and doesn't just rehash the Z6/7 modes. I really didn't get on well with the current Z selection.
At the moment, it has combination of Z and D6 AF options. 3D tracking behaves like D6.
What is currently missing is group focus ( the 4 small square on DSLR) and customized group focus.
I hope they will take care of that.
Lots of tests comparing it directly to A1 so Nikon knows what it is facing and hope they will deliver
Weasel_Loader wrote:
The Z9 will have to at least equal my D5 in high ISO and focus tracking to have me switch. I look forward to the day I can handhold a full frame body with a 400/2.8 all day.
Rumor has it that Z9 noise level will be comparable to Z6 but I have no idea if that is at low iso, high iso or full range of iso or what exactly. Also no idea if it is Z9 downsized to Z6 pixel count or at native resolution.
According to Steve Perry, D5 is still slightly ahead of the pack though so I doubt that Z9 will be as good as D5 in term of noise. On the other hand, it has a lot more pixels and faster FPS so there is a price to pay somewhere.
And I guess sony and canon will follow with their next iterations.
) and weight (of the 400 2.8 w/built-in TC).