Ludvig83 wrote:
This sounds like classic sony. I don't know what our age gap is but this experience is similar in other products such as the playstation line. Well it can do 4k but you have to run the game at barely 30 fps, gran turismo has stellar graphics but you have to be in replay mode to see it and look at this other stuff we're offering but it's actually limited and we're doing it first.
They are good at using software to have these extra bullet points that reviewers can sale you on such as the new focus breathing software. My Z lenses don't breath like my Sony GM lenses but now people will say that Nikon Z camera is lacking this new vital feature.
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This type of tactic isn’t unique to Sony. Modern marketing seems to have adopted “there’s a catch… and you’ll find out after your purchase” as a way of overselling and pushing products. Can you blame them when people expect a $400 console to perform like a $1500+ PC, using the 4k video game example. Okay you want 4k gaming, here it is “there’s a catch… the game will run at PC Med-Low settings and run at capped 30fps.
What kind of videos would that be though, assuming you don’t mean YouTubers (Mark Smith, Steve Perry, etc.). Documentaries don’t commonly attribute the gear used in the title or tags.
I get the impression that a lot of still photographers are now capturing video to support their stills work. The A1’s readout speed puts it ahead of other systems - I don’t shoot video much but when I do, my Z6 doesn’t compare to my A1. Obviously the Z9 is going to offer the same, if not better.
For myself, 120fps slow motion video of BIF is a lot easier to capture than stills; I’ve found it a great way to improve my handling and tracking skills. Still learning, and *massive* respect for the amazing BIF work across this site.
bs kite wrote:
There's been much talk about video specs but who is going to use it for video?
I would like to know if these flagship mirrorless cameras are practical for videos, in addition to stills.
I googled for wildlife videos done with the A1 but I've not yet found any online.
I was really hoping that Nikon's 100-400 would be an internal zoom lens.
I am now having second thoughts about getting it. I might just buy a 2x to go with my 70-200mm Z lens. The extending zoom rings drive me nuts, as they are often slower to move from near to far.
Seeing this makes me now want to wait to see what the 200-600 looks like. If it has an internal zoom (like Sony's), then I'd pair that with my Z 70-200 and 24-70 f/4 Z.
I get why Nikon has chosen to go w/ an extending zoom lens, as this save weight and size, but it would have been a differentiator had they designed the lens like the 70-200 f/2.8.
bs kite wrote:
There's been much talk about video specs but who is going to use it for video?
I would like to know if these flagship mirrorless cameras are practical for videos, in addition to stills.
I googled for wildlife videos done with the A1 but I've not yet found any online.
The reason is that video is driving the sales demand. The manufactures have the data that shows this. People who are primarily stills photographers are not the big drivers of the sales channel these days.
Sony recently made a number of video centric cameras. The camera we all ignored, the ZV-E10 is now the number one selling mirrorless camera in the World. It is responsible for putting Sony well out in front with 45% market share again. It is not the a1 that we keep focusing on.
People are mostly content with the still images that come out of the phone. But they want better video, both for commerce and social reasons. Covid-19 accelerated this market segment in a big way. Hybrid video/still will be important for the broader market. Successful cameras must have both.
Yes, the flagship cameras are very practical for both video and stills. The flagships are as useful for the high end in video in the same way as they are for stills. They are now being used in places where only much more expensive dedicated video cameras were just a year ago.
FM people are not focused on video. But a great part of the World is. How many webpages do you open that don't have an imbedded video on them? You want to get millions of hits, publish a video.
1bwana1 wrote:
The reason is that video is driving the sales demand. The manufactures have the data that shows this. People who are primarily stills photographers are not drive the sales channel these days.
Sony recently made a number of video centric cameras. The camera we all ignored, the ZV-E10 is now the number one selling mirrorless camera in the World. It is responsible for putting Sony at 45% market share again.
People are mostly content with the still images that come out of the phone. But they want better video, both for commerce and social reasons. Hybrid video/still will be important for the broader market. Successful cameras must have both.
Yes, the flagship cameras are very practical for both video and stills. The flagships are as useful for the high end in video in the same way as they are for stills. They are now being used in places where only much more expensive dedicated video cameras were just a year ago.
FM people are not focused on video. But a great part of the World is. How many webpages do you open that don't have an imbedded video on them? You want to get millions of hits, publish a video....Show more →
I am quite excited about video. Not so much in the past about 4k but 8k definitely. But i am waiting to see actual video spec. If it can do 8k/30p internal recording i think it might change the way I photograph certain subject if quality of frame grab is as good or close to quality of photographic image. 8k/60p would be even better but if I go that route, I think I need a new computer. 8K will increase demand on the computer quite a bit.
OwlsEyes wrote:
I was really hoping that Nikon's 100-400 would be an internal zoom lens.
I am now having second thoughts about getting it. I might just buy a 2x to go with my 70-200mm Z lens. The extending zoom rings drive me nuts, as they are often slower to move from near to far.
Seeing this makes me now want to wait to see what the 200-600 looks like. If it has an internal zoom (like Sony's), then I'd pair that with my Z 70-200 and 24-70 f/4 Z.
I get why Nikon has chosen to go w/ an extending zoom lens, as this save weight and size, but it would have been a differentiator had they designed the lens like the 70-200 f/2.8.
Interesting that Sony managed an all new internally zooming 70-200 f/2.8 that is much lighter than old model and is actually lighter than Canon's but not crippled like Canon's. I'll take weight reduction ahead of size reduction if that's the choice. I'm not bothered by 100-400 design, but for 200-600 I definitely would only buy internally zooming lens. I own Sony's and would not swap it for any other alternative having owned a Sigma 150-600 telescoping design.
I had hoped Nikon would release a 200-600 S though, but if it's better optically than the 200-500 f/5.6 and no more than 2kg it'll tempt me. But ultimately I would prefer a 600 f/5.6 PF + 100-400 S combo than a 500 f/5.6 PF and 200-600 combo, but that's what I'll be going with for a long time no doubt.
Ultimately I'm looking at an A1 and Z9 team and pick lenses I like from each brand without duplication (mostly). Doubt I'll swap my 100-400 GM for this new Nikon, but that 400 f/2.8 + built-in TC sounds like a game changer.
This type of tactic isn’t unique to Sony. Modern marketing seems to have adopted “there’s a catch… and you’ll find out after your purchase” as a way of overselling and pushing products. Can you blame them when people expect a $400 console to perform like a $1500+ PC, using the 4k video game example. Okay you want 4k gaming, here it is “there’s a catch… the game will run at PC Med-Low settings and run at capped 30fps.
Trouble is DLSS and FSR (appropriate to consoles) have changed the game: a lot of PS5/XBox One X games can run 4K 60fps with good settings, and only an ultra-high end PC would produce noticeably better results. When you can render 4K at say 1440p and output AI upscaled 4K with IQ that is hard to tell apart from native 4K but at 30-40% higher frame rates, people are very happy. Also with the next updates to console hardware the new AMD APU's will be far more capable and probably feature hardware FSR acceleration.
OwlsEyes wrote:
I was really hoping that Nikon's 100-400 would be an internal zoom lens.
I am now having second thoughts about getting it. I might just buy a 2x to go with my 70-200mm Z lens. The extending zoom rings drive me nuts, as they are often slower to move from near to far.
Seeing this makes me now want to wait to see what the 200-600 looks like. If it has an internal zoom (like Sony's), then I'd pair that with my Z 70-200 and 24-70 f/4 Z.
I get why Nikon has chosen to go w/ an extending zoom lens, as this save weight and size, but it would have been a differentiator had they designed the lens like the 70-200 f/2.8.
Nikon is about to launch a flagship mirrorless that is likely to be at least the equal of the A1. It makes sense for them to make a 200-600 that is also, at least the equal of Sony's. Or maybe I should say that it is illogical for Nikon to build a 200-600 that is not the equal of Sony's 200-600. I hope it is like the Sony, with internal zoom and a short throw.
I'll be keeping my very sharp 200-500 just for videos I think. I have used it for a few short clips of loons and I've found (imo) that the 200-500's long throw is best for video.
The 200-600 just may make you smile Bruce. I'd wait.
When hypothetically considering getting a Z9 to replace the D500, it only now dawns on me how much heavier the Z9 will be with the FTZ adapter attached to use with eg. the 500PF or the 500FL. than the D500.
The D500 is 860 grams including battery. The Z9 is rumored to be around 1200 grams including batteries and you have to add the weight of the FTZ adapter to that, around 140 grams for the current ftz adapter. That would make it 1350 grams opposed to the 860 grams of the D500.
Effectively, someone shooting a 500FL on the D500, would be back to older days with the 500G weight wise, when shooting the 500FL on the Z9.
With the 500PF, I wonder how the combo will balance...
I will follow the Z9 with interest but hope for sure that Nikon will make an aps-c sports Z camera, not only for cost reasons, but also for weight reasons.
Nikon is certainly not focusing on small light weight mirrorless systems as some of the other companies are. This is fine as it provides choice for photographers.
There are some of us who value the vertical grip on a prosumer DSLR, because the added heft is a big help to balance a heavy telephoto, weighing at least 2.5kg and often 3+kg.
In 4 years I've never removed the grip and only use the ENEL18 in my D850, and these batteries interchange with my D5.
1bwana1 wrote:
Nikon is certainly not focusing on small light weight mirrorless systems as some of the other companies are. This is fine as it provides choice for photographers.
In a way, I do prefer an integrated grip. I had the Z7 and really missed a decent grip with long lenses, so when I heard the Z9 would feature an integrated grip, I liked the idea.
But the ideal grip for me is the D500, enough substance but limited weight. I guess I hoped the Z9 would be around or stay below 1000gr with batteries, because with adapted lenses you still have to add the weight of the ftz adapter.
The weight savings on long lenses b.t.w. are obviously paramount to long lens shooters, e.g. when discussing the Nikon 600FL compared to the Sony 600GM. So weight savings are very crucial to wildlife shooters. Changing a D500 for a Z9 undoes almost all of the weight savings of newer generation long lenses like the 500FL when shooting adapted.
I would say that there is still a very valid reason for looking ahead at a D500 replacement after the Z9 storm has blown over. I fear though that such a body is very unsure in the current climate.
chambeshi wrote:
There are some of us who value the vertical grip on a prosumer DSLR, because the added heft is a big help to balance a heavy telephoto, weighing at least 2.5kg and often 3+kg.
In 4 years I've never removed the grip and only use the ENEL18 in my D850, and these batteries interchange with my D5.
I currently use the 500PF and (mostly) the Sigma 500mm f4S (optionally + 1.4TC) on the D500.
Adding half a kilogram to the D500+Sigma 500mm, effectively pushes it beyond handheld shooting, which I do exclusively, certainly when the 1.4TC is on.
I realize that Nikon is making this body for the new Z super telephotolenses, but these 14.000,- lenses will not be within reach of many users, so they will have to resort to adapting the existing F mount lenses. I don't see that as a practical solution myself (even when disregarding the cost) with the hefty weight of the Z9+ftz adapter, so will hope for a D500 replacement.
chambeshi wrote:
There are some of us who value the vertical grip on a prosumer DSLR, because the added heft is a big help to balance a heavy telephoto, weighing at least 2.5kg and often 3+kg.
In 4 years I've never removed the grip and only use the ENEL18 in my D850, and these batteries interchange with my D5.
Same here. All my camera had grip on them, D800e,D810,D500,D850 and Z6II. Gripless Z6 camera are way too small for me and they balance really poorly with big telephoto lense because they are too small and light. I am really happy Nikon design a big real pro body with integrated grip but lighter then a D6. I think it will be just the perfect size with good ergonomics and not too heavy.
ChrisMak wrote:
When hypothetically considering getting a Z9 to replace the D500, it only now dawns on me how much heavier the Z9 will be with the FTZ adapter attached to use with eg. the 500PF or the 500FL. than the D500.
The D500 is 860 grams including battery. The Z9 is rumored to be around 1200 grams including batteries and you have to add the weight of the FTZ adapter to that, around 140 grams for the current ftz adapter. That would make it 1350 grams opposed to the 860 grams of the D500.
Effectively, someone shooting a 500FL on the D500, would be back to older days with the 500G weight wise, when shooting the 500FL on the Z9.
With the 500PF, I wonder how the combo will balance...
I will follow the Z9 with interest but hope for sure that Nikon will make an aps-c sports Z camera, not only for cost reasons, but also for weight reasons....Show more →
The D500 is the perfect size for my hands. Anything smaller and it's like a point and shoot. Way too small. I also am not a grip fan and would have preferred a removable grip. I too wish for an APS-C body with the Z9 specs and AF system. But might not be for a while if at all.
I will get used to the grip on the Z9 and the weight of the Z9 (rumored 1020g/2.2lbs) with the 500PF is less then a full pound heavier then the D500 and 500PF with the FTZ. I am easily ok with that.
but if I go that route, I think I need a new computer. 8K will increase demand on the computer quite a bit. 