The Z9 does have a faster sensor scan speed than the a1 from all I have heard. That is very encouraging. I am anxious to see what benefits that may bring.
1bwana1 wrote:
So many more specs. Who knows what the actual list is. The camera sounds like a great one. Clearly not just trying to catch up and copy existing specs in other lines. Nikon is innovating and doing things with a unique Nikon flavor. That is a great thing for sure.
I remain a bit concerned that Nikon may still be going to list specs that are not functional at the time of release. I have been mentioning this for some time now. A couple of these are big ones as of the last firmware. Note that Nikon Rumors also has now heard this and posted this footnote in this latest rumor posting.
"Please note that some of the Z7 features may come later with a firmware update and will not be available at launch."
I left it unedited for accuracy of quote, but clearly they meant z9 not Z7. A simple typo....Show more →
It'll be really interesting to see what specs aren't there at release. From what everyone who has a little inside information has said on these threads it looks like 20 fps is there and there's some question over 30 fps and what the compromises will be. I can 100% live with 20 fps so no concerns. Great if they increase it at some point but no big deal. The only sad thing about it would be that if it's an otherwise excellent camera then this would probably be the poster child for "It's not as good as X camera because.." when I think very few users would find a meaningful reason to want 30 over 20.
Beyond that I can only really see video features being delayed. Perhaps things like 8k60 (if it's a thing) or perhaps specific formats. I get that this would be frustrating for some people but it wouldn't affect me personally.
Maybe there could be an issue with 16-bit fps but again I would have no issue. The fundamentals that will affect stills are going to be the noise levels, the AF quality, the ergonomics, battery-life, EVF quality and having a good enough baseline fps and I can't really see how that won't be there from day 1. Feel free to yell if you think otherwise!
bs kite wrote:
Did anyone learn what the IS designation on the 100-400 stands for?
I could find nothing.
I'd guess the intention is "VR" but in haste Nikon Rumors used IS for Image Stabilisation. I think if it was an actual feature then Nikon Rumors would have commented further on it but it was just thrown out there.
As flagship cameras goes, it often gets a lot of attention how fast the shutter is. From my seat, I am hoping for a great all around camera so the question of 20 or 30 fps is simply irrelevant to me. 10 fps would likely be enough If the autofocus was good.
What I am really qurious about is the dynamic range, the sensor size and the autofocus system. I really hope Nikon will be able to pull off 16bit raw files as rumored an what more is I hope they will be able to at least maintain the amazing dynamic range of the D850/Z7.
gannis wrote:
There's an update in the NR rumour site that says the sensor scan speed of Z9 will be 4ms vs A1's 5ms.
If that is the scan speed then I think it will still have a MS. Sure, there is little reason to use MS on a 4-5ms scanning sensor that allows flash to be used. But, I think eliminating it totally may still result in a few scenarios where people will complain.
When we have a Global shutter then we can get rid of the mechanical one.
philwaring wrote:
It'll be really interesting to see what specs aren't there at release. From what everyone who has a little inside information has said on these threads it looks like 20 fps is there and there's some question over 30 fps and what the compromises will be. I can 100% live with 20 fps so no concerns. Great if they increase it at some point but no big deal. The only sad thing about it would be that if it's an otherwise excellent camera then this would probably be the poster child for "It's not as good as X camera because.." when I think very few users would find a meaningful reason to want 30 over 20.
Beyond that I can only really see video features being delayed. Perhaps things like 8k60 (if it's a thing) or perhaps specific formats. I get that this would be frustrating for some people but it wouldn't affect me personally.
Maybe there could be an issue with 16-bit fps but again I would have no issue. The fundamentals that will affect stills are going to be the noise levels, the AF quality, the ergonomics, battery-life, EVF quality and having a good enough baseline fps and I can't really see how that won't be there from day 1. Feel free to yell if you think otherwise!
Lassep wrote:
As flagship cameras goes, it often gets a lot of attention how fast the shutter is. From my seat, I am hoping for a great all around camera so the question of 20 or 30 fps is simply irrelevant to me. 10 fps would likely be enough If the autofocus was good.
What I am really qurious about is the dynamic range, the sensor size and the autofocus system. I really hope Nikon will be able to pull off 16bit raw files as rumored an what more is I hope they will be able to at least maintain the amazing dynamic range of the D850/Z7. ...Show more →
My a1 has 30 fps capability. But my setup has 20 fps as maximum. That is also enough for me most times. Like you, my primary goal is to have a flexible, agile, all around camera.
I believe Nikon will prioritize the sensor for very high DR at ISO 64. This should be industry leading at that ISO. This has been a trademark signature over the last few years. It also makes great headline material.
However, this requires compromises in other ISO ranges. Combined with the larger sensor, I expect the Z9 will be a bit behind some other sensors at mid and high ISO. In reality, it won't make much of a difference in actual IQ at either the low or high end. DR and Noise will be competitive with other high resolution stacked BSI CMOS sensor on the market.
Would a flagship mirrorless have captured this launching hawk in perfect focus?
Today I went to a local estuary that has a fishermen's co-op, and of course, lots of pigeons. I was elated when a Cooper's hawk swooped in and landed. It was a hungry juvenile and it came to catch a pigeon. Cooper's belong to the family Accipitridae. Relative to other hawks, accipiters have stubbier wings and a very long, narrow group of tail feathers (called the retrices (plural), that acts as a rudder, allowing them to navigate through open woodlands with speed. Accipiters are sometimes called "darters".
They are ambush predators, often perching on the edge of woodlands, waiting and watching. When an unsuspecting passerine bird appears in the open, the chase is on. The passerine bird instantly spots the Coopers chasing it.
When scared, a pigeon is much faster than a passerine. I'm not certain, but I don't think a Cooper's can catch a Pigeon in a straight race in open, treeless habitat. I've seen such a chase just once, and the terrified pigeon shifted into high gear and pulled away from the Coopers.
So when this Cooper's you see in the images showed, I was determined to get in position to try to capture its attempt on a pigeon. But the only thing I got was a couple of perched shots and one when it was launching. That shot looked good in the camera, but you know how that can go. I got home and it was soft! Apparently I kept the AF on single point and when the bird launched, the focus somehow ended up on the railing behind it.
At one point the Coopers flew up and onto a utility pole, causing the pigeons to take to flight. Once the hawk perched, the flock of about 30 pigeons came back, making several passes and coming with 20 feet of the perched hawk below them. They knew the hawk would not attempt a chase in the open.
In the future, I want to be able to photograph these quick hawks in action.
MY QUESTION: Would the flagship mirrorless have nailed this hawk? Would it have instantly stuck focus on the eye? Needless to say, my D850 just does not do it. I know my D500 is quicker but I did not have it with me.
After all this Z9 talk on the forum lately, I ask you this: Does the A1 focus on the bird's eye in this situation. And how fast is it to acquire once the focus button is depressed.
I am trying to learn what to expect with the Z9.
Robert
Thanks
Soft! Does the focus plane appear to be on the railing just behind the bird? It does to me.
And this was at 9fps (D850 with battery grip). Not nearly fast enough
I am also thinking that 1/2000th was not fast enough
The only pigeons it showed interest in, were under the walkway. It knew it would fail in the open sky, so it did not even try.
bs kite wrote:
Today I went to a local estuary that has a fishermen's co-op, and of course, lots of pigeons. I was elated when a Cooper's hawk swooped in and landed. It was a hungry juvenile and it came to catch a pigeon. Cooper's belong to the family Accipitridae. Relative to other hawks, accipiters have stubbier wings and a very long, narrow group of tail feathers (called the retrices (plural), that acts as a rudder, allowing them to navigate through open woodlands with speed. Accipiters are sometimes called "darters".
They are ambush predators, often perching on the edge of woodlands, waiting and watching. When an unsuspecting passerine bird appears in the open, the chase is on. The passerine bird instantly spots the Coopers chasing it.
I'm not certain, but I don't think a Cooper's can catch a Pigeon in a straight race in open, treeless habitat. I've seen such a chase once, and the terrified pigeon shifted into high gear and pulled away from the Coopers.
So when this Cooper's you see in the images showed, I was determined to get in position to try to capture its attempt on a pigeon. But the only thing I got was a couple of perched shots and one when it was launching. That shot looked good in the camera, but you know how that can go. I got home and it was soft! Apparently I kept the AF on single point and when the bird launched, the focus somehow ended up on the railing behind it.
At one point the Coopers flew up and onto a utility pole, causing the pigeons to take to flight. Once the hawk perched, the flock of about 30 pigeons came, making several passes and coming with 20 feet of the perched hawk below them. They knew the hawk would not attempt a chase in the open.
In the future, I want to be able to photograph these quick hawks in action.
MY QUESTION: Would the flagship mirrorless have nailed this hawk? Would it have instantly stuck focus on the eye? Needless to say, my D850 just does not do it. I know my D500 is quicker but I did not have it with me.
After all this Z9 talk on the forum lately, I ask you this: Does the A1 focus on the bird's eye in this situation. And how fast is it to acquire once the focus button is depressed.
Yes the top end mirrorless that I've used (A1 and R5) will have a focus point on that hawk's eye while it is perched instantly. The A1 is always searching and shows a white box over the eye if it is detecting it even before you hit the AF button. The R5 will do similar if put into Auto mode.
When that hawk takes off the eye-af icon may or may not stay active....my bet is it won't on either the A1 or R5. However, the tracking system in cameras like the A1, R5 and A9/A9II will easily nail 90%+ of a takeoff sequence like that. It is almost too easy with these new cameras.
I find Eye-AF activity for BIF is highly dependent on user skill. One needs to do very smooth panning (basically creating a static bird in the middle of the frame) for the AF system to have a steady enough image to activate Eye-AF. I've had it activate on birds as fast as swallows if I'm on my game. But really having eye-af for BIF is not that important except for the larger birds that are close where AF may pick up near wing.
I'm confident the Z9 will be equally as good....dare I say better?......
Your words: "I find Eye-AF activity for BIF is highly dependent on user skill. One needs to do very smooth panning (basically creating a static bird in the middle of the frame) for the AF system to have a steady enough image to activate Eye-AF. I've had it activate on birds as fast as swallows if I'm on my game. But really having eye-af for BIF is not that important except for the larger birds that are close where AF may pick up near wing."
Good description. I am glad it does take some user skill.
What about say.... a flock of pigeons flying closely overhead? This happens a lot at this co-op place.
Would you please explain what it is like to acquire the flying pigeons in this situation ?
If the shooter can effectively pan and create a static bird...bla, bla, bla (without explaining further.)
I think I understand now. One must focus attention on one of the flying pigeons and pan with it. Right?
Lance B wrote:
D6 = 1450gms fully loaded - battery and two cards
D6 = 1270gms body only
Rumored Z9 = 1020gms body only
Rumored Z9 = 1200gms fully loaded - battery and two cards.
R3 = 822gms body only
R3 = 1015gms fully loded - battery and cards.
Differences:
D6 is 250gms heavier than the Z9 whether loaded or unloaded - they use the similar/same battery and cards
Rumored Z9 is ~200gms heavier than R3 body only.
Rumored Z9 is ~185gms heavier than R3 fully loaded.
Assuming the EN-EL18x battery is still 160gms.
The lower weight of the Z9 compared to the D6 or D850 with battery grip makes me more happy to get this camera. ...Show more →
dpreview lists D6 as 1270g with battery, so that's what threw me, 1450g makes more sense
Interesting. Looking at the teasers (with iso 100 which I thought would be the base ISO) I thought nikon wouldve optimized this camera for a better performance at mid/ high iso considering this is a sports/action camera which will most likely be used at higher than the base iso. Considering they already have the Z7 series for the ultimate low iso/ DR.
1bwana1 wrote:
My a1 has 30 fps capability. But my setup has 20 fps as maximum. That is also enough for me most times. Like you, my primary goal is to have a flexible, agile, all around camera.
I believe Nikon will prioritize the sensor for very high DR at ISO 64. This should be industry leading at that ISO. This has been a trademark signature over the last few years. It also makes great headline material.
However, this requires compromises in other ISO ranges. Combined with the larger sensor, I expect the Z9 will be a bit behind some other sensors at mid and high ISO. In reality, it won't make much of a difference in actual IQ at either the low or high end. DR and Noise will be competitive with other high resolution stacked BSI CMOS sensor on the market.
Latest update from NR says the EVF is 3.6M...i think that's what the Z7II also has? I was thinking they'll go for at least 5M dots.
From NR
Update #3:
Only 20 fps with electronic shutter
The viewfinder resolution is 3.69MP
New fold-out and swivel LCD screen (we have seen that already in one of the teasers)
Newly designed menu system
Shipping is expected to start in December
8K 60 fps, N-RAW, and maybe other features will be added later with a free firmware update. The firmware update is also expected to be announced on October 28
gannis wrote:
Latest update from NR says the EVF is 3.6M...i think that's what the Z7II also has? I was thinking they'll go for at least 5M dots.
From NR
Update #3:
Only 20 fps with electronic shutter
The viewfinder resolution is 3.69MP
New fold-out and swivel LCD screen (we have seen that already in one of the teasers)
Newly designed menu system
Shipping is expected to start in December
8K 60 fps, N-RAW, and maybe other features will be added later with a free firmware update. The firmware update is also expected to be announced on October 28
To be quite honest, there is nothing wrong with the VF resolution of the Z7II if that is what it is.
That's right. As long as the EVF is optimized for moving subjects I'm fine. This topic on EVF resolution and refresh rate seems to be a bit complex than what's on the spec sheets. Even cameras with higher EVF dots and refresh rates seem to drop down when photographing fast moving subjects.
Lance B wrote:
To be quite honest, there is nothing wrong with the VF resolution of the Z7II if that is what it is.
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