Pixel Perfect wrote:
The R3 weighs 1015g including battery, so if Z9 is 1180g with battery that's only 165g heavier not 300g. But I find it hard to believe Z9 is only 90g lighter than the D6 given it has no huge pentaprism, mirror box or mechanical shutter and body is smaller volume. I can believe 1020g including battery so a solid 250g weight savings over D6. R3 is over 400g lighter than 1DXIII.
D6 = 1450gms fully loaded - battery and two cards
D6 = 1270gms body only
Rumored Z9 = 1020gms body only
Rumored Z9 = 1200gms fully loaded - battery and two cards.
R3 = 822gms body only
R3 = 1015gms fully loded - battery and cards.
Differences:
D6 is 250gms heavier than the Z9 whether loaded or unloaded - they use the similar/same battery and cards
Rumored Z9 is ~200gms heavier than R3 body only.
Rumored Z9 is ~185gms heavier than R3 fully loaded.
Assuming the EN-EL18x battery is still 160gms.
The lower weight of the Z9 compared to the D6 or D850 with battery grip makes me more happy to get this camera.
I have no proof that Sony did not build or design the Z9's sensor. But I am confident that Sony did not build the Z9 sensor. We will soon see. That would be great news for Nikon.
If Nikon intends to take the lead in the mirrorless world (and they do ), it seems that Nikon would build their own sensor or have someone other than Sony build their sensors. Isn't that logical?
I think most believe Tower Semiconductor built the Z9 sensor.
Only a few days until we find out but if they can put a competitive sensor of their own behind the Z mount, their future is looking as good as anyone's.
cvrle59 wrote:
Let's call Z9 Shutterless camera, Mirrorless term is outdated by now...so, welcome to the shutterless photography world...
I guess the progression will soon become:
DSLR
Mirrorless. A camera with a mirrorless sensor that has a sensor scan speed that in most cases is not fast enough to work without a mechanical shutter.
Mirrorless, shutter optional. A camera shot without a shutter the great majority of the time. A shutter is available in those rare instances involving special lighting problems where the shutter can solve the problem. This is how the a1 works. My camera's shutter count is still zero.
Mirrorless Shutter less. A camera that has no option for a shutter when it is the best solution.
Global Shutter. A camera that has a sensor that scans the whole sensor at the speed of light. No shutter needed ever.
Until I know the details of each system, I am not sure which format I prefer for how/what I like to shoot.
The Nikon Z9 shutter will close when the camera is off to protect the sensor
45 MP stacked sensor
20 fps (could be also 30fps as initially reported)
120 fps in DX mode with reduced resolution (11MP)
New AF tracking (humans, animals, birds eye AF + cars, motorcycles, and planes AF tracking)
No rolling shutter (better than Sony A1 and Canon R3)
Black-out free viewfinder in all situations (around 5MP)
No pixelshift feature (it could be implemented later with a firmware update)
There will be an 8K 60p video option with 1 hr time limit
Big improvements in the color balance
The Z9 price is expected to be less than the Nikon D6 camera that currently sells for $6,500.
So many more specs. Who knows what the actual list is. The camera sounds like a great one. Clearly not just trying to catch up and copy existing specs in other lines. Nikon is innovating and doing things with a unique Nikon flavor. That is a great thing for sure.
I remain a bit concerned that Nikon may still be going to list specs that are not functional at the time of release. I have been mentioning this for some time now. A couple of these are big ones as of the last firmware. Note that Nikon Rumors also has now heard this and posted this footnote in this latest rumor posting.
"Please note that some of the Z7 features may come later with a firmware update and will not be available at launch."
I left it unedited for accuracy of quote, but clearly they meant z9 not Z7. A simple typo.
The Nikon Z9 shutter will close when the camera is off to protect the sensor
45 MP stacked sensor
20 fps (could be also 30fps as initially reported)
120 fps in DX mode with reduced resolution (11MP)
New AF tracking (humans, animals, birds eye AF + cars, motorcycles, and planes AF tracking)
No rolling shutter (better than Sony A1 and Canon R3)
Black-out free viewfinder in all situations (around 5MP)
No pixelshift feature (it could be implemented later with a firmware update)
There will be an 8K 60p video option with 1 hr time limit
Big improvements in the color balance
The Z9 price is expected to be less than the Nikon D6 camera that currently sells for $6,500.
Yes, i heard some of these specs as well.8k 60p make me think that more than 20 fps raw should be possible but this might not be available at launch. Faster readout speed than A1 2nd to a nifty feature that I am not familiar with by Tower sensor also but bI have not heard any specific number so I will believe it when Nikon disclose the real information. Price around $6000.
Next week should be interesting. I will preorder mine
I did not know about shutterless but geez if the sound we heard on video clip is simulated shuttersound, I wish Nikon would
Pick something better. 1Dx iii shuttersound is so easy on the ear and not as obnoxious as D6 or this Z9 sound
I guess the sound is highly subjective. But I am quite sure that if the camera indeed had no mechanical shutter, Nikon would demonstrate silent shooting in their teasers rather than synthetized shutter sound from a speaker. So this "rumor" is likely made up, as many of them often are.
I have a lot of questions regarding the shutter rumors. I will wait until release to discuss. No need to speculate on possible ramifications until we know if it is true and the details.
There is the Nikon patent for a complex stacked sensor with dual rolling and global shutter technology, which interface with the action of the on-sensor Autofocus...
....submitted to the Japanese patent office a few months ago. And Nikon has submitted several patents recently pertaining to their R&D in advanced sensor technology
Steve Spencer wrote:
Yeah, these two rumors certainly seem to be contradictory. I am betting it has a mechanical shutter, but it won't need to used hardly ever.
For what little I know of technology, I hope it has a mechanical shutter too.
Steve Spencer wrote:
Yeah, these two rumors certainly seem to be contradictory. I am betting it has a mechanical shutter, but it won't need to used hardly ever.
That is how the competition does it. In practice the a1 is basically shutterless.
I guess a simple slow blade cover system that only serves to protect the sensor when the camera is turned off might still be called a shutter. Especially in translations. Not really a contradiction.
1bwana1 wrote:
That is how the competition does it. In practice the a1 is basically shutterless.
I guess a simple slow blade cover system that only serves to protect the sensor when the camera is turned off might still be called a shutter. Especially in translations. Not really a contradiction.
Wait a minute, are you not trying to steal the show now...
One thing is mechanical shutter that you use to take still images, the other one is to protect the sensor.
Both functions may be assigned to the same device, and that's how A1 is designed and built, some other cameras like R5, too.
A1 uses mechanical shutter, it can go up to 10fps in continues mode, according what I read from the specs.
There is a reason why it's there, even some people never use it, but there are different applications as well.
So, the rumors for Z9 are contradictory indead, but if rumor is true, that mechanical shutter is missing, that's not what A1 is about, as far as I'm concerned.
Nikon might've designed something similar to protect the sensor, but it won't be a sophisticated mechanical device, which would keep up with 14-20fps.
It could be some simple device which opens and closes on power cycling.
We don't know yet, we'll learn soon.
cvrle59 wrote:
Wait a minute, are you not trying to still the show now...
I think you mean "steal the show"?
No, I am trying to put the seemly contradictory statements about shutter in context. I am simply using a similar existing technology as an example. I implied no superiority of any system.
cvrle59 wrote:
One thing is mechanical shutter that you use to take still images, the other one is to protect the sensor.
Both functions may be assigned to the same device, and that's how A1 is designed and built, some other cameras like R5, too.
Exactly as I said. See you use other systems as examples too.
cvrle59 wrote:
A1 uses mechanical shutter, it can go up to 10fps in continues mode, according what I read from the specs.
There is a reason why it's there, even some people never use it, but there are different applications as well.
Yes, no issue there. But in practical terms it is almost never used. Only rarely to solve unusual lighting conditions or in methods like High Speed Sync. The point being that it is entirely reasonable for a camera with super fast scan speeds to not have a mechanical shutter as is now a rumor about the Z9.
Once again you also use another system as an example.
cvrle59 wrote:
So, the rumors for Z9 are contradictory indead, but if rumor is true, that mechanical shutter is missing, that's not what A1 is about, as far as I'm concerned.
Nikon might've designed something similar to protect the sensor, but it won't be a sophisticated mechanical device, which would keep up with 14-20fps.
It could be some simple device which opens and closes on power cycling.
We don't know yet, we'll learn soon.
Exactly my point again. The mechanical protective cover may not be functional for image taking, but might still be properly called a shutter mechanism because of the way it works. That would explain the apparent contradiction that people were discussing. Too different devices, with different capabilities, both still being properly called a shutter.
I don't understand your attack.
We agree on the shutter issue.
We both use other systems as an example to explain what we are saying.
No, I am trying to put the seemly contradictory statements about shutter in context. I am simply using a similar existing technology as an example. I implied no superiority of any system.
Exactly as I said. See you use other systems as examples too.
Yes, no issue there. But in practical terms it is almost never used. Only rarely to solve unusual lighting conditions or in methods like High Speed Sync. The point being that it is entirely reasonable for a camera with super fast scan speeds to not have a mechanical shutter as is now a rumor about the Z9.
Once again you also use another system as an example.
Exactly my point again. The mechanical protective cover may not be functional for image taking, but might still be properly called a shutter mechanism because of the way it works. That would explain the apparent contradiction that people were discussing. Too different devices, with different capabilities, both still being properly called a shutter.
I don't understand your attack.
We agree on the shutter issue.
We both use other systems as an example to explain what we are saying.
First of all thanks on catching on my misspelled words, you enjoy that part, I noticed it.
We're not all born with English as the first language, but polite people brush off of it, rather than highlighting that section, as you always do, to put people down.
The message is clear what I wanted to say.
Second of all, I really didn't want to attack you in my previous post, it might've sounded like that because me being writing using my second language, it was more about joke.
And third of all, A1 is not Shutterless by any means, as I jokingly pointed to Z9 rumors calling Z9 Shutterless camera, rather than mirrorless camera.
If the rumor is true, Z9 will be pure Shutterless camera, A1 is not, sorry, so let's put that aside.
Forth of all, I was joking about stealing show, I really did, but not any more.
cvrle59 wrote:
First of all thanks on catching on my misspelled words, you enjoy that part, I noticed it.
We're not all born with English as fist language, but polite people brush off of it, rather than highlighting that section, as you always do, to put people down.
The message is clear what I wanted to say.
Second of all, I really didn't want to attack you in my first email, it might've sounded like that because me being writing using my second language, it was more about joke.
And third of all, A1 is not Shutterless by any means, as I jokingly pointed to Z9 rumors calling Z9 Shutterless camera, rather than mirrorless camera.
If the rumor is true, Z9 will be pure Shutterless camera, A1 is not, sorry.
Forth of all, I was joking about stealing show, I really did, but not any more.
I was being polite. I just wanted to also be clear. There is no malice in my post. You know the use of the word "still" in your sentence could be read as I was attempting to remove the controversy in the thread. Which in fact I was. However, that would not have been a consistent reading in the context of the entirety of your post. My clarifying was in no way impolite. Like most, I make plenty of spelling and grammatical errors in my posts as well. It is not a big deal.
Maybe it is a matter of language. Because as I have said, we are in complete agreement on the issues. I have been nothing but supportive about the Z9 in regard to the shutter discussion. And I have been very respectful and polite in all my comments to you about it.
I never said or implied that the a1 was shutterless. I said that it is most times used shutterless. I said that this validates the choice that Nikon has possibly made to actually release the Z9 as the first shutterless camera in its class.
I don't get why you want to create conflict where none actually exists. The only way I can understand that is it must be language as you suggest.
It's silly to get into discussion like this, about gear anyway.
I could be edgy at some moments, I'm sorry, I still didn't recover from the problem I'm dealing with, I'm getting very nervues about it by now.
Yes, it's all good we have enough options to pick from, it's more about preferences, and the budget, these days.
cvrle59 wrote:
It's silly to get into discussion like this, about gear anyway.
I could be edgy at some moments, I'm sorry, I still didn't recover from the problem I'm dealing with, I'm getting very nervues about it by now.
Yes, it's all good we have enough options to pick from, it's more about preferences, and the budget, these days.
Perfect. Misunderstandings between friends are easy to solve.
I wish you luck with whatever you are dealing with.
), it seems that Nikon would build their own sensor or have someone other than Sony build their sensors. Isn't that logical?