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Archive 2021 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021

  
 
arbitrage
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p.18 #1 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


What I'm worried about with the Z9....

1) Has Nikon stuck it out with the same selection of AF modes as seen in the current Z cameras? I really don't like the selection they are using. I much preferred the DSLR selection and lust even more after what the D6 has with customizable AF Groups (same thing the Canon R3 has now brought to it's system).

I really hope Nikon has done a total overhaul with the AF modes, bringing them more in line with the D6 but hopefully even more customizable....I can't see any reason they couldn't give a Group type mode that can be made into any shape you want (Canon R3 now does this).

2) Is Nikon still going to be stingy with what functions can go on each button? I hate arbitrary limitations seen on current Nikon cameras. Just let me put what I want, where I want...jeez....

3) Can I customize which exposure variables go on each dial? Can I make the ISO button be an aperture button instead (something I rarely change) and have direct access to ISO without a button push on the rear control wheel? Somehow I doubt it but the lack of a third control wheel (which the competitors have) limits the customization of the camera for me and my use case.

4) AF-ON + Area Mode....come on now...if that doesn't make a return Nikon has lost it....



Oct 08, 2021 at 08:08 AM
1bwana1
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p.18 #2 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


JadedWriter wrote:
I kind of figure Z9 will be the closest I'm ever going to get to my desired wish of D810 in a D4 body so I'm paying close attention to that progress.



If the Z9 is even close to the performance of a D810 in focus and other areas it will be an absolute terrible failure. Pray that is not anywhere close to what Nikon has come up with. I owned and shot the D810 for many years. I really liked the camera. But the new performance standards have left it way behind. The D810 had almost no configurability. It was a big heavy brick of a camera. It has a whole different design, handling, and performance esthetic. It is not a contemporary competitive camera.

No, I think with the Z9 you are going to get a thoroughly modern camera with all the benefits that mirrorless offers. You will also get a D6 like body. The Z9 promises to put Nikon back in the game. I am very optimistic about it.




Oct 08, 2021 at 09:12 AM
JadedWriter
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p.18 #3 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


For D810 I meant in terms of image quality not in regards to AF specs. I have and still occasionally shoot the D810 it's not a bad camera and I'm well aware of the fact that it's been surpassed many times over. You people really need to stop using the focus box as the only way to judge a camera.
1bwana1 wrote:
If the Z9 is even close to the performance of a D810 in focus and other areas it will be an absolute terrible failure. Pray that is not anywhere close to what Nikon has come up with. I owned and shot the D810 for many years. I really liked the camera. But the new performance standards have left it way behind. The D810 had almost no configurability. It was a big heavy brick of a camera. It has a whole different design, handling, and performance esthetic. It is not a contemporary competitive camera.

No, I think with the Z9 you are
...Show more




Oct 08, 2021 at 09:53 AM
1bwana1
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p.18 #4 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


JadedWriter wrote:
For D810 I meant in terms of image quality not in regards to AF specs. I have and still occasionally shoot the D810 it's not a bad camera and I'm well aware of the fact that it's been surpassed many times over. You people really need to stop using the focus box as the only way to judge a camera.



Hmm, you never mentioned "image quality" in your post so how would anyone respond to that?

I distinctly posted saying many areas of performance, size, weight, configurability, design, handling, and performance esthetic. That doesn't seem like "using the focus box as the only way to judge a camera".

Maybe it is you that is hung up on the focus box issue. Not me, if I am included in the "you people" you reference.



Oct 08, 2021 at 10:22 AM
Eric214
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p.18 #5 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


JadedWriter wrote:
For D810 I meant in terms of image quality not in regards to AF specs. I have and still occasionally shoot the D810 it's not a bad camera and I'm well aware of the fact that it's been surpassed many times over. You people really need to stop using the focus box as the only way to judge a camera.



Jason, i don't think that is his point. Both versions of the Z6 and Z7 are incredible for everything BUT AF for fast moving subjects like sports, wildlife and BIF.

The point being made here is that the Z9 is supposed to be better than the D500, D5 and D6 for fast action AF. I think what he is saying is the AF needs to be as good as the A1 and R3 out if not VERY comparable for this type of photography.

Edited on Oct 08, 2021 at 04:39 PM · View previous versions



Oct 08, 2021 at 10:23 AM
1bwana1
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p.18 #6 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


Eric214 wrote:
Jason, i don't think that is his point. Both versions of the Z6 and Z7 are incredible for everything BUT AF for fast moving subjects like sports, wildlife and BIF.

The point being made here is that the Z9 is supposed to be better than the D500, D5 and D6 for fast action AF. I think what he is saying is the AF needs to be as good as the A1 and R3 out of not VERY compostable for this type of photography.


Correct.

In fact, I really don't have much concern about the AI, AF, and tracking capabilities of the Z9. From what I have heard from some with hands on, Nikon has done a great job with that. Further, I expect that in the near future much of this will be included in the Real Time Tracking update that is coming to the Z6II/Z7II. Then we can basically put that issue behind us. To a large extent it is already mostly just reputational legacy of the AF problems the Z6/Z7 had at release. The latest version are orders of magnitude better as Jason has correctly pointed out. In each category of cameras, from all three of the major companies, parity in AF will exist for the most part. Won't that be great!

I think what Arbitrage, and probably Thom Hogan, are talking about is the workflow design that Nikon implements. Historically it seems to me that Nikon has relied on more work, knowledge, and input from its users. For some like Steve Spencer this is seen as a plus. Thom Hogan seems to be concerned that the new standard that users expect requires less of this. So possibly the market will punish Nikon for this esthetic. It is my hope that Nikon has provided for work flows that embody both approaches. The user can decide. That should be a plus in everyone's book. This will likely take a couple of firmware tweaks once things are learned in broader customer usage after release.

All three manufacturers will have slightly different build, form factor, haptics, ergonomic, and workflow, esthetics. That is a good thing. That gives as all the ability to choose a system that appeals/works best for us.

It will also provide topics for great and entertaining forum discussions. That is also a good thing.

The Z9 issues regarding performance that I am most concerned about are not related to AF at all. As of the last firmware I have insight to, there were a couple of benchmarks that are objective, not subjective, that were not reached yet. There is great pressure to release at Nikon. The hardware is locked in and capable of supporting these benchmarks. It is thought that they can all be achieved in firmware refinements. Some also with a new ATZ adapter. There was talk of releasing with the plan of addressing some of these in updates early next year. I think for some of these issues that would be OK. But for others it would be a perception disaster. Not so much for the Nikon faithful, but for the press and photographic community at large. As we saw with the Z6/Z7 that is a damaging and hard thing to overcome once established. Rather than defending some soon to be fixed shortcomings, I would prefer to see Nikon users proud and bragging about the Z9 from day 1.

It seems that at this point both firmware and hardware are basically locked in for release. I have much less insight into the current firmware status than the one of a few of weeks ago. It is my hope that the major issues in performance benchmarks have all now been sorted out so they will be there at release. If not, I would prefer for Nikon to delay release.

So Jason as you can see I am very bullish on the Z9, and Nikon mirrorless in general. Including the AF issues. I think you will be very happy with the Z9, proud of Nikon, and pleased with the choice in brand you have made.



Oct 08, 2021 at 11:50 AM
jwolfe
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p.18 #7 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


Gotta love the internet. The camera hasn't even been announced yet and everyone is complaining about it.

This camera will be a milestone for Nikon much like the F5 and the D1.

Stop complaining and enjoy the anticipation. And maybe when it's announced, give it some time and focus on the positives instead of instantly bashing it.



Oct 08, 2021 at 12:02 PM
saaketham
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p.18 #8 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


jwolfe wrote:
Gotta love the internet. The camera hasn't even been announced yet and everyone is complaining about it.





Oct 08, 2021 at 12:10 PM
sjms
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p.18 #9 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


i was just about to say this is the standard "much ado about nothing" churning event brought about by "the usual suspects". me, i have all the the time in the world. my gear works fine and i know how to use it. i will assume, now that i am aging into mediocrity, that having all the support of highest technology will prop me up.

addendum: i said it before if it fits my needs i'll get it. got to get rid of that pocket change somehow. gotta keep up with those well heeled enthusiasts



Oct 08, 2021 at 12:14 PM
AcuteShadows
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p.18 #10 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


saaketham wrote:


Complaing before a camera is lauched has a BIG advantage: Nobody will ask you if you have ever actually worked with that camera. That's BIG as in BIG!!




Oct 08, 2021 at 12:32 PM
saaketham
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p.18 #11 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


I like the z9 so far, but it's the z10 that I just can't stand - it still doesn't have support for Mosquito Eye AF


Oct 08, 2021 at 12:35 PM
gannis
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p.18 #12 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


The performance benchmarks comment of yours sounds pretty much like what thom also seems to have mentioned in his article where he says Nikon is probably rushing a bit to risk ending up with a buggy tour de force. Hopefully it's not a deal breaker. Fingers crossed.

https://www.zsystemuser.com/nikon-z-system-news-and/fasten-your-seatbelts-turbu.html

1bwana1 wrote:
Correct.

In fact, I really don't have much concern about the AI, AF, and tracking capabilities of the Z9. From what I have heard from some with hands on, Nikon has done a great job with that. Further, I expect that in the near future much of this will be included in the Real Time Tracking update that is coming to the Z6II/Z7II. Then we can basically put that issue behind us. To a large extent it is already mostly just reputational legacy of the AF problems the Z6/Z7 had at release. The latest version are orders of magnitude better
...Show more



Oct 08, 2021 at 12:47 PM
AcuteShadows
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p.18 #13 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


saaketham wrote:
I like the z9 so far, but it's the z10 that I just can't stand - it still doesn't have support for Mosquito Eye AF


And why a car autofocus and no bike autofocus? This camera will destroy the planet!




Oct 08, 2021 at 03:44 PM
AcuteShadows
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p.18 #14 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


Thom's post is written as if the Canon R3 were already available. It will be released in November, as far as I know. Then, Nikon is certainly not the only camera maker that has used firmware updates to improve a camera or fix certain issues. With all experiences across all camera makers combined, it does not appear wise to bet on professionally using a camera in the first 3-6 months after the initial release if you don't have a fallback option. (So don't sell your F mount superteles yet.)


Oct 08, 2021 at 03:54 PM
1bwana1
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p.18 #15 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


I actually view firmware updates that are not bug fixes but add features or great enhance existing ones as a benefit. So much so that I would pay a subscription fee for them. Much more effecient than having to wait for or buy a new body to get them.

That is a very different thing than I was referring to in my previous post.



Oct 08, 2021 at 04:28 PM
1bwana1
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p.18 #16 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021




jwolfe wrote:
Gotta love the internet. The camera hasn't even been announced yet and everyone is complaining about it.

This camera will be a milestone for Nikon much like the F5 and the D1.

Stop complaining and enjoy the anticipation. And maybe when it's announced, give it some time and focus on the positives instead of instantly bashing it.


I don't see much complaining here in this thread. I see discussions and optimism for the most part.



Oct 08, 2021 at 04:29 PM
AcuteShadows
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p.18 #17 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


1bwana1 wrote:
I actually view firmware updates that are not bug fixes but add features or great enhance existing ones as a benefit. So much so that I would pay a subscription fee for them. Much more effecient than having to wait for or buy a new body to get them.

That is a very different thing than I was referring to in my previous post.


What Nikon should certainly avoid is having options that are not fully supported by the software. So if, for example, the software has issues with 30 fps with some lenses, then the option should just be disabled, at least for those lenses, so that you can, say, use 20 fps reliably. Thus, a bug is turned into a missing feature, which seems to be the better option.




Oct 08, 2021 at 04:39 PM
Eric214
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p.18 #18 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


AcuteShadows wrote:
Thom's post is written as if the Canon R3 were already available. It will be released in November, as far as I know. Then, Nikon is certainly not the only camera maker that has used firmware updates to improve a camera or fix certain issues. With all experiences across all camera makers combined, it does not appear wise to bet on professionally using a camera in the first 3-6 months after the initial release if you don't have a fallback option. (So don't sell your F mount superteles yet.)


Ha! I'll keep one D500 and my 500pf will be for the Z9 if i get one. I'd honestly prefer a Z900 like when the D5 and D500 was released. Save the money and keep the reach I'm used to with the D500. But if not, Z9 here i come, i think 😁



Oct 08, 2021 at 04:48 PM
1bwana1
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p.18 #19 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


AcuteShadows wrote:
What Nikon should certainly avoid is having options that are not fully supported by the software. So if, for example, the software has issues with 30 fps with some lenses, then the option should just be disabled, at least for those lenses, so that you can, say, use 20 fps reliably. Thus, a bug is turned into a missing feature, which seems to be the better option.



I don't see something like 20fps with full AF and AE using F Mount lenses as any kind of problem. That would mean that the F mount lenses are getting a higher frame rate on the Z9 than they did on any DSLR. That is still a big step up for the Z9.

I am actually expecting that in real World use the FPS actually achieved will vary somewhat whether its an F mount or native Z mount. This seem reasonable, and the way it is with the other systems. Not a bug in my view.



Oct 08, 2021 at 06:21 PM
1bwana1
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p.18 #20 · New Z9 Specs (NR) Aug 10th, 2021


Eric214 wrote:
Ha! I'll keep one D500 and my 500pf will be for the Z9 if i get one. I'd honestly prefer a Z900 like when the D5 and D500 was released. Save the money and keep the reach I'm used to with the D500. But if not, Z9 here i come, i think 😁


But at 45mpx the Z9 shot in APS-C mode will still deliver the same reach and close to the same resolution as the D500. So you functionally have close to both cameras in one.




Oct 08, 2021 at 06:26 PM
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