aboutthelight wrote:
Have you tried the A1 wide area with tracking or without to know if you would or would not get better results by using one of the other 12 configurations that are possible?
As an aside in order to get 30FPS you need to use Wide AF with no tracking so maybe that is why you are seeing that.
Also in my experience the wide with tracking works extremely well at finding the bird and locking on the the eye in a split second. In instances where you may have multiple birds or need to be more precise as has been explained, you can use small, medium or large spot focus and the joystick to point where you want the camera to focus. I have my shutter set up with large spot focus with bird eye tracking so I can point it at my birds eye. Once it locks on it will follow the bird anywhere in the frame. I have the AF/ON button set to wide with tracking. Both work extremely well. I also have the AEL button set to center zone with tracking. So depending on the situation I have any 3 modes I want in an instant. As all buttons are customizable you can set it up to turn tracking on and off, to pull up image quality settings so can in 2 seconds without having to look at the menu change from 20 to 30 fps and so on. The automation that you are speaking of is a fantastic tool that can in certain instances get you shots that with any other camera and system would be significantly more difficult. Of course you can eventually get any shot with any camera but with the A1 you don't just get any shot, you get to pick which of the 200 that you got is the absolute best of the best.
I still have lots of friends that are heavily invested in Nikon. People I shoot with all the time. I sincerely hope that the Z9 is all that everyone hopes it will be and more. Competition is great for the market. But it really has a ton of ground to make up. A ton. EVF with zero lag, insane autofocus, fully customizable buttons, 1/400 flash sync speed with the electronic shutter, 20 fps with full raw and up to 30 fps with a compressed raw. The features go on and on. Throw in the Sony 600 f4 and Nikon is left in the dust. But hopefully the Z9 catapults them right back to the front of the pack where they have been for many years with DSLRs. And hopefully they will continue to innovate and come up with products that no one has like the 400 2.8 with built in 1.4x....Show more →
This isn't a thread about Sony cameras. Please let's not turn it into that.The point that Thom Hogan was making is that the Z9 might not have many or as many automated modes like wide area AF for Sony cameras. What I said is that I personally would not miss those modes as I find them over automated, but that lots of people like them so I worry it may hurt Z9 sales not to have them.
I am not going to comment on a yet to be announced Nikon camera versus Sony's cameras. We might not have to wait more that a few hours (but it might be another month or even two) to know more about the Nikon specs. The Sony A1 is a great camera. I think the Nikon Z9 will be too. Comparisons, however, at this point are pretty non-sensical.
Chill, shops over here in Europe use the same tactics, a ridiculous high price but with an option to make a reservation for the camera.
This line is key: Preis kann sich nach offizieller Ankündigung noch verändern
Well... things are progressing Thank you for sharing the link.
I'm excited to see what Nikon has to offer... I'm going to make the leap to mirrorless this year...it's either the Z9 or the A1. Of course...will Nikon be able to meet demand is a big question?
Steve Spencer wrote:
This isn't a thread about Sony cameras. Please let's not turn it into that.The point that Thom Hogan was making is that the Z9 might not have many or as many automated modes like wide area AF for Sony cameras. What I said is that I personally would not miss those modes as I find them over automated, but that lots of people like them so I worry it may hurt Z9 sales not to have them.
I am not going to comment on a yet to be announced Nikon camera versus Sony's cameras. We might not have to wait more that a few hours (but it might be another month or even two) to know more about the Nikon specs. The Sony A1 is a great camera. I think the Nikon Z9 will be too. Comparisons, however, at this point are pretty non-sensical....Show more →
Coincidentally, Nikon revealed a little bit on the automation in the Z9 in their first teaser video yesterday. Interestingly it is focused on exactly the situation that Steve Spencer and I were discussing in our look at levels of automation.
In the last couple of seconds of the video it was noticed that there were Eye AF being drawn around both eyes of the model. One of these eye boxes still having the arrow drawn as well. I have been told that this is the result of a new Eye AF feature in the Z9.
When in Wide Area AF (exactly Steve Spencer's example) the Z9 can draw up to 6 boxes around eyes that are in the frame. The photographer can then toggle to any one of these boxes. That box (eye) will become the point of focus for the camera. It seems to me that this level of automation is a mix of what we have in the Sony/Canon Eye AF, and the greater user control advocated by Steve Spencer. This expands choosing which eye left/right the user can pick to which person the user wants to focus on in the frame. Both more automation, and more user control encapsulated in the same new feature.
I am very interested in seeing this in action when the Z9 is released. If this is an indication of the type of thinking that Nikon has done in regard to AI and AF features in the Z9, I am very encouraged.
I wonder if this will also be possible in other subject AF such as Animal, birds. I think BIF may be moving much too fast in many cases for a user to keep up and makes these choices.
Riding the joystick to shuffle eye boxes around the frame is not something I’m at all interested in. I switched to Canon to get away from that sort of cumbersome interface. With the R5/6 I just point the center focus point at the eye I want to track, hold down the AF-On button, recompose the shot while the camera tracks the eye, and shoot away. It’s much faster than it was trying to switch eyes/subjects with the joystick on the Z6ii.
The Canon cameras basically allow for a combined subject tracking/eye detection mode which gives WAY more control to the user and produces much more reliable results than using subject tracking or eye detection (separate modes) on the current Nikon cameras. On top of that I can program two or even three AF-On buttons which allow me to instantly override the tracking mode if it’s not doing what I intended.
This greater level of control is one of the primary reasons I switched so I can’t help but laugh seeing Thom Hogan and others sneer at people who supposedly hate Nikon and love other brands because they’re idiots who want the camera to do everything for them.
I’m guessing the Z9 will be able to do this stuff as well but it’s too little, too late for me. Also too expensive at probably close to double the price of the R5 which already does pretty much everything I actually need it to do. Not to mention the R6 which is much cheaper (I’ve just been spoiled by the extra resolution).
Tim Kamppinen wrote:
I’m guessing the Z9 will be able to do this stuff as well but it’s too little, too late for me.
I am expecting (and hoping) that Nikon has this and a number of other ways to use Eye AF.
If you have been following this thread you will already know that you and I see the AI and automation issues the same way. I think there are many Nikon shooters who have not used the advanced features on the latest mirrorless cameras from Sony and Nikon and don't fully understand the power and flexibility they offer. Hopefully Nikon has move in that direction now also.
I'd be fully game to buy an A1 if it was built like a flagship and if I didn't love Z rendering. I'd buy Canon if I actually liked the company. I'm waiting for 2 grand A9II's. I'm pretty sure you're not referring to me with that comment though. 1bwana1 wrote:
I am expecting (and hoping) that Nikon has this and a number of other ways to use Eye AF.
If you have been following this thread you will already know that you and I see the AI and automation issues the same way. I think there are many Nikon shooters who have not used the advanced features on the latest mirrorless cameras from Sony and Nikon and don't fully understand the power and flexibility they offer. Hopefully Nikon has move in that direction now also.
JadedWriter wrote:
I'd be fully game to buy an A1 if it was built like a flagship and if I didn't love Z rendering. I'd buy Canon if I actually liked the company. I'm waiting for 2 grand A9II's. I'm pretty sure you're not referring to me with that comment though.
The a1 is built very robustly. I have no worries about durability or weather sealing. You should handle one and look at the construction. Even Roger at LensRentals says the build is as good as any other manufacturer these days. No issues.
On the other hand, if you are talking about the larger form factor when saying "flagship" like the Z9, and won't accept an added grip then you only choice may be the Z9.
No my post was not directed at you, I was responding to the post by Tim which I quoted.
I'm assuming build quality wise it's similar to the RIV. Most of my Sony build quality complaints are directed at overall size, grips, button spacing and such. I don't hate them, but if I'm going to pay $6500 for a camera I better love having it in my hands and not pay for an additional grip. I could get an A1 and honestly be fine, but I like to be "different" these days and I do like what Nikon's been doing lately AF system wobbles aside. I like choice and not having a specific brand crammed down my throat (even if I own said brand). It would take Nikon going legit belly up to get me into the Canon system, which is a brand I honestly have no real reason getting into. Also by "referring to me" I was looking at your "Nikon user comment not knowing anything about the most recent Sony cameras" mention. I try to be decently in the know. I just really do not care about raw numbers with this stuff. 1bwana1 wrote:
The a1 is built very robustly. I have no worries about durability or weather sealing. You should handle one and look at the construction. Even Roger at LensRentals says the build is as good as any other manufacturer these days. No issues.
On the other hand, if you are talking about the larger form factor when saying "flagship" like the Z9, and won't accept an added grip then you only choice may be the Z9.
No my post was not directed at you, I was responding to the post by Tim which I quoted.
JadedWriter wrote:
I'm assuming build quality wise it's similar to the RIV.
It is a step up from that in a number of ways.
JadedWriter wrote:
Most of my Sony build quality complaints are directed at overall size, grips, button spacing and such.
Since those are things that are about personal preference is might be better to refer to them that way. Build quality is more a reference to manufacturing and design robustness issues. Design choices may be a better term for thes items.
JadedWriter wrote:
I could get an A1 and honestly be fine, but I like to be "different" these days and I do like what Nikon's been doing lately AF system wobbles aside.
Once again personal preference and not objective subjects. I do encourage you to choose whichever system you feel fits you the best. Life is too short to do otherwise.
JadedWriter wrote:
I like choice and not having a specific brand crammed down my throat (even if I own said brand).
How could a brand be crammed down your throat? It is a free country and cameras are a discretionary. Do what you please. No one objects.
JadedWriter wrote:
It would take Nikon going legit belly up to get me into the Canon system, which is a brand I honestly have no real reason getting into.
OK
JadedWriter wrote:
Also by "referring to me" I was looking at your "Nikon user comment not knowing anything about the most recent Sony cameras" mention. I try to be decently in the know. I just really do not care about raw numbers with this stuff.
I spoke generally. If the description doesn't fit you then I wasn't referring to you. You decide.
I don't understand the raw numbers comment. Sorry.
Let's get back to the exciting development with the Z9. It sounds like it may be a very good choice for you.
I'll answer two things. One. You claim it's hard for a brand to be crammed down a persons throat, yet you act like you don't read this forum with how Sony biased it tends to be like 98% of the time so it's very hard to believe you've never noticed this. Two regarding the raw numbers comment it's in reference to Arbitrage's comment telling me about how many calculations said camera's do, which was the last thing I A) care about and B) asked for. I'm basically a visual learner so raw numbers really don't get me excited when it comes to stuff like that. I basically shoot what I see and feel and gauge it that way. It's not science, but it's how I shoot. Also yes I think I prefer the way Nikon designs a camera over Sony. I can use both, but have my preferences. 1bwana1 wrote:
It is a step up from that in a number of ways.
Since those are things that are about personal preference is might be better to refer to them that way. Build quality is more a reference to manufacturing and design robustness issues. Design choices may be a better term for thes items.
Once again personal preference and not objective subjects. I do encourage you to choose whichever system you feel fits you the best. Life is too short to do otherwise.
How could a brand be crammed down your throat? It is a free country and cameras are a discretionary. Do what you please. No one objects.
OK
I spoke generally. If the description doesn't fit you then I wasn't referring to you. You decide.
I don't understand the raw numbers comment. Sorry.
Let's get back to the exciting development with the Z9. It sounds like it may be a very good choice for you.
As far as I am concerned the Z9 is a total no brainer.
The Z6II/Z7II is already much better AF wise than it's given credit for and there is little doubt to me that the Z9 will most probably be the best focusing camera on the market. But even if that may seem over optimistic to some, it being in the same ballpark as the a1 or R3 is a certainty.
The usability of the Z9 with the 2 axis screen seems just better thought out than the Canon and Sony versions.
The key value of the Z9 is going to be the combination of outstanding capabilities and the lenses though:
- the 120-300mm f2.8 alone is a breakthrough lens
- so is the 500mm f5.6 PF
- the rumored 400mm f2.8 with built-in TC is going to redefine the game for some sports like soccer
- the quality of the Z glass is just overall one notch above. Even when Sony releases a magical lens like the 50mm f1.2 it is only just as good as the equivalent Nikon
- the ability to adapt any Sony FE lens on the Nikon bodies is the final decider for me. Why would I want to lock myself in Canon or Sony mount on which no other mirrorless lens can be mounted?
JadedWriter wrote:
Two regarding the raw numbers comment it's in reference to Arbitrage's comment telling me about how many calculations said camera's do, which was the last thing I A) care about and B) asked for. I'm basically a visual learner so raw numbers really don't get me excited when it comes to stuff like that.
Okay...but that comment wasn't even in this thread
I obviously misunderstood your question/statement about wanting to see what the A9/A1 are doing. Sorry about providing such useless information that you neither care or asked for.
What you will "see" them doing is sticking on the subject you start tracking much more consistently than the other cameras. The reason for this is what I posted in regards to calculations...the more calculations the better chance things stay with what you want.
If more calculations equals less random then that is fine by me. This is why I still operate these things like DSLR's. I like eye AF, just don't like random behavior which I do sometimes see. They should probably stop gimping the processors in the more affordable cameras then. arbitrage wrote:
Okay...but that comment wasn't even in this thread
I obviously misunderstood your question/statement about wanting to see what the A9/A1 are doing. Sorry about providing such useless information that you neither care or asked for.
What you will "see" them doing is sticking on the subject you start tracking much more consistently than the other cameras. The reason for this is what I posted in regards to calculations...the more calculations the better chance things stay with what you want.
JadedWriter wrote:
If more calculations equals less random then that is fine by me. This is why I still operate these things like DSLR's. I like eye AF, just don't like random behavior which I do sometimes see. They should probably stop gimping the processors in the more affordable cameras then.
One example I can give is if I used Tracking AF on a BIF with the A7RIV it would constantly go back and forth between the Tracking icon (square with vertical line on L and R) and the dancing squares. With the A9 it does that less often and with the A1 less often still. Back on the computer it translates to way longer strings of shots in a row that are in focus even now shooting at 30FPS v 10FPS on an RIV. I don't have experience with any of the non-R 7 series or RIII so not sure where they stand against RIV.
But I'll get off the Sony discussion now and back to the Z9....
Never tried to bird with the RIII, RIV is at least better than that for that purpose. Never wanted an A9 because I wanted to straight escape the RII shutter and also wanted to escape that body. I kind of figure Z9 will be the closest I'm ever going to get to my desired wish of D810 in a D4 body so I'm paying close attention to that progress. arbitrage wrote:
One example I can give is if I used Tracking AF on a BIF with the A7RIV it would constantly go back and forth between the Tracking icon (square with vertical line on L and R) and the dancing squares. With the A9 it does that less often and with the A1 less often still. Back on the computer it translates to way longer strings of shots in a row that are in focus even now shooting at 30FPS v 10FPS on an RIV. I don't have experience with any of the non-R 7 series or RIII so not sure where they stand against RIV.
But I'll get off the Sony discussion now and back to the Z9.......Show more →
Thank you for sharing the link.