They've already discontinued so many kit lens type lenses that the writing is on the wall. The moment they discontinue one of the pro grade 2.8 lenses that mount is done in my opinion. There just feels like some weird double standard where Canon was able to kill of EF mount with a lot less backlash from their customers whereas here, people seem to expect the smaller company to potentially sink because they think Nikon is obligated to cater to them. Nikon has big decisions to make and I'd rather they do what they need to do to continue making products. Outside of the rather experimental sports zooms and the 500PF the Z mount stuff is better any way...unless you really like the rendering of the old glass. blackadde wrote:
I agree. Nikon is not a big enough company to float two (four if you differentiate between FX/DX) different platforms when they're already losing so much market share. F-Mount had an incredible run, but it's time to focus on the future and drop the millstone around their neck. Frankly, despite not communicating it openly I think they've functionally done it already anyways.
JadedWriter wrote:
They've already discontinued so many kit lens type lenses that the writing is on the wall. The moment they discontinue one of the pro grade 2.8 lenses that mount is done in my opinion. There just feels like some weird double standard where Canon was able to kill of EF mount with a lot less backlash from their customers whereas here, people seem to expect the smaller company to potentially sink because they think Nikon is obligated to cater to them. Nikon has big decisions to make and I'd rather they do what they need to do to continue making products. Outside of the rather experimental sports zooms and the 500PF the Z mount stuff is better any way...unless you really like the rendering of the old glass.
A friend of mine has been trying to get a Nikon 1.4TCIII for 4+ months. He asked Nikon Canada directly and they had no estimated date to get one. Basically they didn't know if they would ever have them again. I let him have my 1.4TCIII for the foreseeable future.
I think Nikon has discontinued F glass production but without making an official announcement about it. I also don't recall Canon making any official announcement about totally stopping EF production. They did announce they wouldn't be developing any new EF lenses for a couple years (which probably means forever) but not that they weren't going to keep producing existing EF glass.
I think it is pretty clear that Nikon won't be developing any new F-mount glass either. I'm sure they are still producing some F-mount stuff but they must have had to stop/slow some lines to make the Z stuff. I don't think we will see a new D850 replacement anymore.
I could believe that. I think once they saw the numbers they probably just stopped whatever the D880 was mid production, not to mention sales numbers from the D780 probably played into that. arbitrage wrote:
A friend of mine has been trying to get a Nikon 1.4TCIII for 4+ months. He asked Nikon Canada directly and they had no estimated date to get one. Basically they didn't know if they would ever have them again. I let him have my 1.4TCIII for the foreseeable future.
I think Nikon has discontinued F glass production but without making an official announcement about it. I also don't recall Canon making any official announcement about totally stopping EF production. They did announce they wouldn't be developing any new EF lenses for a couple years (which probably means forever) but not that they weren't going to keep producing existing EF glass.
I think it is pretty clear that Nikon won't be developing any new F-mount glass either. I'm sure they are still producing some F-mount stuff but they must have had to stop/slow some lines to make the Z stuff. I don't think we will see a new D850 replacement anymore. ...Show more →
Four months is a pretty normal lead time now, as employees haven't been able to work in factories due to COVID. I ordered a new set of golf irons last week and the delivery time is in January earliest. I checked out some driver online and its projected delivery was estimated for May 2023. The manufacturing world seems to be a mess right now.
Nikon closed two out of three factories that made lenses in Japan; they must have some additional challenges due to consolidation of the work into one factory. Some products might experience delays due to that. As far as I know, of the Z lenses, only the Noct is made in Japan. The majority seems to be made in Thailand and some in China.
TCs don't work well on F-mount and generally degrade image quality and AF performance. I always wondered why they make them at all. More nuisance than benefit was always my view of the topic. While the focusing with TCs is better on Z mount cameras the image quality still isn't as crisp or clean as with a primary lens without TC. It wouldn't surprise me if a company trying to make their reputation on image quality would not consider TCs a priority in a time of crisis.
This is not true. They have discontinued some. Which is to be expected. Canon has also discontinued a ton of stuff. But Nikon is still making long glass and teleconverters etc.
It’s the supply chain. You can’t get anything out of Asia right now. It’s what I do for a living. It’s effecting everything. And Nikon moved plants right in the middle of it.
arbitrage wrote:
A friend of mine has been trying to get a Nikon 1.4TCIII for 4+ months. He asked Nikon Canada directly and they had no estimated date to get one. Basically they didn't know if they would ever have them again. I let him have my 1.4TCIII for the foreseeable future.
I think Nikon has discontinued F glass production but without making an official announcement about it. I also don't recall Canon making any official announcement about totally stopping EF production. They did announce they wouldn't be developing any new EF lenses for a couple years (which probably means forever) but not that they weren't going to keep producing existing EF glass.
I think it is pretty clear that Nikon won't be developing any new F-mount glass either. I'm sure they are still producing some F-mount stuff but they must have had to stop/slow some lines to make the Z stuff. I don't think we will see a new D850 replacement anymore. ...Show more →
Of course the mount will be dead eventually. But your F mount lenses aren’t going to suddenly stop working. There’s millions in the market. Same with F mount bodies.
I still running all F mount until the body technology catches up. And I won’t give up my 500mm pf until there’s a good replacement.
JadedWriter wrote:
They've already discontinued so many kit lens type lenses that the writing is on the wall. The moment they discontinue one of the pro grade 2.8 lenses that mount is done in my opinion. There just feels like some weird double standard where Canon was able to kill of EF mount with a lot less backlash from their customers whereas here, people seem to expect the smaller company to potentially sink because they think Nikon is obligated to cater to them. Nikon has big decisions to make and I'd rather they do what they need to do to continue making products. Outside of the rather experimental sports zooms and the 500PF the Z mount stuff is better any way...unless you really like the rendering of the old glass.
there is also the movement from Japan to Thailand (yes i know they are already there making other things. you still need to ramp up) and getting things going while unpleasant things rage on.
JadedWriter wrote:
I honestly think what Nikon has to do is do what Canon did and just kill off the DSLR mount (It's time to rip this band aid off already) and just dedicate all of their resources into mirrorless and be done with it. Sony killed A mount, Canon killed EF mount and Nikon needs to lower the casket on F mount already. The EF userbase knows this already and I'm not sure how vocal the cries for this were, but Canon seems to be doing just fine in my opinion.
Producing something with known technology for a known user base is not much of an effort (strategic decisionmaking, developing, sourcing of parts, producing, advertising). Mercedes-Benz still produces new spare parts for vehicles that are 20 years old. And if you have a set of telephoto lenses and a D850, and your camera breaks down, it's no different from a spare part. I obviously don't know what Nikon will do, but combining the D850 with a Z7 sensor in a D780 like package looks like a low-effort, limited-risk proposition.
AcuteShadows wrote:
Producing something with known technology for a known user base is not much of an effort (strategic decisionmaking, developing, sourcing of parts, producing, advertising). Mercedes-Benz still produces new spare parts for vehicles that are 20 years old. And if you have a set of telephoto lenses and a D850, and your camera breaks down, it's no different from a spare part. I obviously don't know what Nikon will do, but combining the D850 with a Z7 sensor in a D780 like package looks like a low-effort, limited-risk proposition.
I pressed “Like” because your last sentence mirrors the thoughts I have had about what a D850 upgrade might be.
Nikon has made it clear that they will focus entirely on developing the mirrorless line for now.
However, we also know that they sometimes (at later dates) surprise us with “upgrades” of older Nikon cameras.
Back when folks were wanting a D300S upgrade I did not lose hope. I knew they would eventually upgrade it.
But this mirrorless thing is much different. Transitioning to mirrorless is like the transition to digital from film. For years I shot Kodachrome and Velvia only (no Echtachrome for me ). Today, I have zero interest in Kodachrome or Velvia. When scanned with my Coolscan V ED, these slides are not nearly the quality of digital files.
I may not buy the Z9 right when it comes out, but Steve Perry and Hudson Henry sold me on mirrorless. I will likely transition to mirrorless.
Not long ago I really wanted a D850 upgrade. That’s changed too. If it happens ok. But I’ll be happy with my old D850 and D500 and see what Nikon has to show with mirrorless.
bs kite wrote:
I pressed “Like” because your last sentence mirrors the thoughts I have had about what a D850 upgrade might be.
Nikon has made it clear that they will focus entirely on developing the mirrorless line for now.
However, we also know that they sometimes (at later dates) surprise us with “upgrades” of older Nikon cameras.
Back when folks were wanting a D300S upgrade I did not lose hope. I knew they would eventually upgrade it.
But this mirrorless thing is much different. Transitioning to mirrorless is like the transition to digital from film. For years I shot Kodachrome and Velvia only (no Echtachrome for me ). Today, I have zero interest in Kodachrome or Velvia. When scanned with my Coolscan V ED, these slides are not nearly the quality of digital files.
I may not buy the Z9 right when it comes out, but Steve Perry and Hudson Henry sold me on mirrorless. I will likely transition to mirrorless.
Not long ago I really wanted a D850 upgrade. That’s changed too. If it happens ok. But I’ll be happy with my old D850 and D500 and see what Nikon has to show with mirrorless.
Your situation is probably similar to many photographers.
However, what if your D850 simply breaks down and you don't want to go through the hassle of buying used items? What if you simply don't plan to upgrade your gear in the future because you are a hobbyist and want to spend your money elsewhere?
I own five F mount Zeiss Milvus lenses. I use them for landscape and architecture. Mirrorless or not is not important for these use cases. But with an F mount camera, I can avoid the rather ugly FTZ, and I have a well-balanced setup without the need for a grip. I have a D780, and I may buy a used D850 in the future. But I have a camera shop 80 meters away from my home which also sells used gear. And I have the D780 for action, so I personally do not need the D850 successor. But if I wouldn't have the D780, I'd strongly consider the D850 successor.
AcuteShadows wrote:
Producing something with known technology for a known user base is not much of an effort (strategic decisionmaking, developing, sourcing of parts, producing, advertising). Mercedes-Benz still produces new spare parts for vehicles that are 20 years old. And if you have a set of telephoto lenses and a D850, and your camera breaks down, it's no different from a spare part. I obviously don't know what Nikon will do, but combining the D850 with a Z7 sensor in a D780 like package looks like a low-effort, limited-risk proposition.
I think you are right about the effort not being all that much required, but I don't think it is the effort that is holding Nikon back. At this point in time it is the perception of the company that they want to project that I think is holding them back from making this camera. They already have the problem of being perceived as being behind the competition in mirrorless. if they make a new DSLR the better that camera is the worse their perception of being behind in mirrorless will be. They don't want to be branded as a behind the times DSLR company at this point. In a couple of years if they establish themselves in mirrorless then they might be able to build this camera, but I am sure they will check if the market is still there for it. If it is they may build it, but I don't think from a strategic reputation of the company point of view they can make such a camera until they are firmly established as being a strong player in the new mirrorless market.
I am looking forward to field tests and reviews of the Z9 written by pro sports photographers...not Nikon ambassadors...with adapted F mount and Z lenses, high ISO performance and how well the facial recognition/eye focus and tracking works vs. the D6 and other cameras.
Other than that, I am quite content the D6 will get me through the winter since I have no choice until the Z9 specs and full tests are available.
I've spent the past few weeks looking at what it would cost/take to switch over to the Sony (A1)/system or Canon (R5) and I think I'm going to exercise some restraint and hold out for the Z9.
I have my fingers crossed this camera will better than the R5 and at least on par with the A1. I'm shooting the D850+500pf combo a lot these days and more FPS would be welcomed. Not to mention IBIS and possibly cleaner files at the higher ISOs.
I'm not a pro shooter and if Nikon decided to come out with something similar to the R5, in another body other than the Z9, odds are I would jump on it before making the huge leap to the Z9.
It would also be great if they put out some more info about their 200-600 and what that will look like in the near future.
So...we wait...and we hope this beast lives up to the hype.
hatch1921 wrote:
I've spent the past few weeks looking at what it would cost/take to switch over to the Sony (A1)/system or Canon (R5) and I think I'm going to exercise some restraint and hold out for the Z9.
I have my fingers crossed this camera will better than the R5 and at least on par with the A1. I'm shooting the D850+500pf combo a lot these days and more FPS would be welcomed. Not to mention IBIS and possibly cleaner files at the higher ISOs.
I'm not a pro shooter and if Nikon decided to come out with something similar to the R5, in another body other than the Z9, odds are I would jump on it before making the huge leap to the Z9.
It would also be great if they put out some more info about their 200-600 and what that will look like in the near future.
So...we wait...and we hope this beast lives up to the hype.
I will not hesitate to make an alternative equipment decision if the Z9 is not a world-beater...it is a little frustrating that there are no test previews/reviews out yet for the camera.
leewoolery wrote:
I will not hesitate to make an alternative equipment decision if the Z9 is not a world-beater...it is a little frustrating that there are no test previews/reviews out yet for the camera.
Plus their recent delivery woes with existing product (much pre-pandemic) doesn't inspire confidence.
leewoolery wrote:
I will not hesitate to make an alternative equipment decision if the Z9 is not a world-beater...it is a little frustrating that there are no test previews/reviews out yet for the camera.
I don't expect any real review anytime soon. There are plenty of testing done but as far as I know with preproduction firmware and Nikon is still getting it ready. However, next month, we should hear some official words about it.
I would assume that in comparison to A1, there will be something that Nikon does better and something that A1 does better.
Also most likely that you may not get the full capability with F mount lens.
It is unclear at the moment but I am not sure that F mount lens, even the E version can keep up with 30 FPS.
You might be stuck at 20 FPS but Z mount lens, especially the upcoming supertele should be able to take the full advantage.
Also it will be Tower sensor and not Sony so sensor performance will certainly be different from A1. Let see if Nikon or Tower has some trick up its sleeve.
Videographer may be very happy, I heard Nikon really went all out with Z9.
One on there now.