LarsHP wrote: Anyone's point of view is per definition subjective. Why do you need to point that out? It only emphasizes that you disagree, while trying to make your point of view more correct.
The illumination will be better in an M camera than my Z6UT because there is less pixel vignetting, and from that point of view I understand your stance. However, optical vignetting will be the same, as seen in the side by side tests from Benj Haisch, Fred Miranda and me. These tests show obviously oval shaped bokeh balls already within the mid-frame (less than 10mm from the center) where the Summicron balls still look circular. That is making my point well and needs no further support. Different people will value that truncation differently.
We have made our stances clear repeatedly, so I don't see any reason to continue.
I don't see any reason to continue either, but please understand that I am not saying my point of view is more correct and I don't think it even make sense to talk about correct when we are talking about subjective judgments. Our subjective judgments are different and merely that. I am explicitly not saying one is more correct than the other and I am saying both are valid. That is the point of saying, YMMV, which I have said at least a half dozen times in our exchanges.
Photo cross posted in the Sony FE Image Thread and taken at 12:50 PM.
Looking down a hallway/entry way into a building (home?) through plexiglass with camera lens lens hood pushed against the plexiglass, Pompeii archaeological site.
Hand Held relying on Camera IBIS, A7rII Kolari Vision UT Sensor modified camera and Voigtlander 28mm f2 Ultron II VM lens; silent shutter.
ISO 200, F8?, 1/8 Second.
oberheimx wrote:
To get sharp corners and low distortion in 28mm with sony A7R4 we have the option of the Batis 18 in APSC mode or Loxia 25 (26mm) cropping a bit
I always thought that the loxia 25 had low distortion too but this past weekend I rented one from Lensrentals and was shooting some gallery install shots and found that having a strip of floor on the bottom revealed some uncorrectable mustache distortion.
The only widish lens I've used on my stock sony to not have an issue with that was the summicron 35v4. (though it did have rather nasty midzone focus dip at middle apertures and the far corners were always a little mush.)
Photo cross posted in the Sony FE Image Thread and taken at 5:59 PM.
Looking at farmers fields near the intersection of Loch Valley Road and Stony Ridge Road. Some of the fields have yet to be planted.
Tripod mounted A7rII Kolari Vision UT sensor modified camera and Voigtlander 28mm f2 Ultron II Asph VM lens with Moose (Peterson) Warm Polarizing Filter; silent shutter.
ISO 100, f8, 1/50 second.
Exposure Corrected +0.18 Stops.
June 6, 2022
Along Loch Valley Road, New Tripoli, PA.
I was out shooting late this afternoon with my Kolari Vision UT sensor modified A7rII and my CV 28mm f2 Ultoon II Asph VM lens and I was shocked to find that focus is way way off. The lens is unable to focus to anything like the hard stop. It is the lens and not the lens adapters nor the camera (I could check and remove the B+W MC filter I doubt that is the issue as the same filters are on the other lenses). I tested the focus of the lens with both TTartisan Leica M to NEX 6 bit adapters and had the same results with the lens reading about 7 feet with a subject at least 50 to 100 feet away and approaching infinity for the lens. I then tried my CV 90mm f2 Apo Skopar lens on both adapters and in each case the lens was approaching infinity for focus, though I did not look at the scale. Finally, I used my Leica M WATE mounted on my Phigment adapter with the camera and it too read close to the same distance as the CV 90mm Apo Skopar.
Suggestions as how to correct the focus of the CV 28mm f2 Ultron II focus being off so much? At this point, I am unable to rely on the lens scale at all for DOF or Hyperfocal. I can live with the issue for now. Otherwise, the lens is a super performer. I will be posting an image from todays shoot tomorrow.
1bwana1 wrote:
Strange Rich. You have posted so many nice images from this lens.
Is this a new thing or have you just noticed it.
I will try my copy on both my M10-P, and my A1 and post my results.
Is there a specific aperture you think I should try? I was thinking of using something like 2.8 and also 8 to see if the matters.
Hi Steve,
The photos are fine as far as what is recorded and they are quite sharp. I just noticed it today because I was trying to set the lens as closely as I could to maintain DOF. The lens is focusing fine with my Kolari Vision UT Sensor modified camera. The distance is just way off according to the lens distance markings and the hard stop for the lens. Somehow, I suspect that the lens needs to have the distance adjustment made. I am just not sure how to make such an adjustment or if I have the tools. Right now, I don't really want to send the lens out to one of the Leica Specialists. Maybe I need to call Stephen Ganby at Cameraquest. I guess that I can try the lens without the B+W MC UV filter, but I just can't believe that it could cause this amount of error.
I just readjusted the diopter for the EVF for my Kolari Vision UT sensor modified A7rII for working with my distance glasses and focused both the CV 28mm f2 Ultron II Asph VM lens and my CV 90mm f2.8 Apo-Skopar VM lens on the clock of my Microwave Oven in our Kitchen. For the CV 28mm f2 Ultron II both with and without the B+W UV MC and mounted to both TTartisan Leica M to Sony FE 6 bit Adapters the distance scale for the lens read about 5 feet. With the CV Apo Skopar lens mounted to either TTartisan Leica M to Sony FE 6 bit Adapter the distance scale for the lens read approximately14 feet which is approximately the distance from the chair where I was sitting and the Microwave oven. So I am pretty darn sure that though the lens focuses fine, the lens is not adjusted to any degree of accuracy for the lens distance scale.
naturephoto1 wrote:
I just readjusted the diopter for the EVF for my Kolari Vision UT sensor modified A7rII for working with my distance glasses and focused both the CV 28mm f2 Ultron II Asph VM lens and my CV 90mm f2.8 Apo-Skopar VM lens on the clock of my Microwave Oven in our Kitchen. For the CV 28mm f2 Ultron II both with and without the B+W UV MC and mounted to both TTartisan Leica M to Sony FE 6 bit Adapters the distance scale for the lens read about 5 feet. With the CV Apo Skopar lens mounted to either TTartisan Leica M to Sony FE 6 bit Adapter the distance scale for the lens read approximately14 feet which is approximately the distance from the chair where I was sitting and the Microwave oven. So I am pretty darn sure that though the lens focuses fine, the lens is not adjusted to any degree of accuracy for the lens distance scale.
The TTartisan 6-bit adapter is the thinnest adapter I have used (noticeably thinner than my spec-accurate Rayqual, and also thinner than my CV adapters), so I think it's not a good adapter for testing focus scale accuracy of lenses, but of course if you use the same adapter with multiple lenses and the results are very different, then there must be variance on the lens side.
Anyhow, most lenses will reach optimal infinity noticeably earlier than hard infinity stop when used with the TTartisan adapter, whereas hard infinity could be accurate on Rayqual adapter with many of the same lenses.
My own copy of CV 28/2 Ultron II has always had optimal infinity a bit before hard infinity with my Rayqual adapter but it hasn't changed its behavior over time. My 90/2.8 Apo-Skopar has optimal infinity pretty much at the middle of the infinity-symbol when used with the Rayqual adapter.
Juha Kannisto wrote:
The TTartisan 6-bit adapter is the thinnest adapter I have used (noticeably thinner than my spec-accurate Rayqual, and also thinner than my CV adapters), so I think it's not a good adapter for testing focus scale accuracy of lenses, but of course if you use the same adapter with multiple lenses and the results are very different, then there must be variance on the lens side.
Anyhow, most lenses will reach optimal infinity noticeably earlier than hard infinity stop when used with the TTartisan adapter, whereas hard infinity could be accurate on Rayqual adapter with many of the same lenses.
My own copy of CV 28/2 Ultron II has always had optimal infinity a bit before hard infinity with my Rayqual adapter but it hasn't changed its behavior over time. My 90/2.8 Apo-Skopar has optimal infinity pretty much at the middle of the infinity-symbol when used with the Rayqual adapter.
I have a few Rayqual and Novoflex adapters. The Rayqual seem to have no wiggle room, lenses just (sometimes barely) reach infinity at the hard stop. Novoflex has some buffer where hard stop may be slightly past. But it acts similarly to other native MF lenses I’ve used. It’s worth a try.
tsdevine wrote:
I have a few Rayqual and Novoflex adapters. The Rayqual seem to have no wiggle room, lenses just (sometimes barely) reach infinity at the hard stop. Novoflex has some buffer where hard stop may be slightly past. But it acts similarly to other native MF lenses I’ve used. It’s worth a try.
Hi Tim,
Thank you. Again, I will check the lens with one or both of my Novoflex adapters. I would think that a wide angle lens may be affected more than a telephoto lens with the noted issue. But if the lens focuses at or near the hard stop, I will be happy and not worry about fixing the issue.
In any case, below is an image taken with the lens yesterday.
Photo cross posted in the Sony FE Image Thread and taken yesterday at 5:18 PM.
Looking at farmers fields near the intersection of Loch Valley Road and Stony Ridge Road.
Tripod mounted A7rII Kolari Vision UT sensor modified camera and Voigtlander 28mm f2 Ultron II Asph VM; silent shutter.
ISO 100, f8, 1/250 second.
Exposure Corrected +0.26 Stops.
October 6, 2022
Along Loch Valley Road, New Tripoli, PA.
naturephoto1 wrote:
I was out shooting late this afternoon with my Kolari Vision UT sensor modified A7rII and my CV 28mm f2 Ultoon II Asph VM lens and I was shocked to find that focus is way way off. The lens is unable to focus to anything like the hard stop. It is the lens and not the lens adapters nor the camera (I could check and remove the B+W MC filter I doubt that is the issue as the same filters are on the other lenses). I tested the focus of the lens with both TTartisan Leica M to NEX 6 bit adapters and had the same results with the lens reading about 7 feet with a subject at least 50 to 100 feet away and approaching infinity for the lens. I then tried my CV 90mm f2 Apo Skopar lens on both adapters and in each case the lens was approaching infinity for focus, though I did not look at the scale. Finally, I used my Leica M WATE mounted on my Phigment adapter with the camera and it too read close to the same distance as the CV 90mm Apo Skopar.
Suggestions as how to correct the focus of the CV 28mm f2 Ultron II focus being off so much? At this point, I am unable to rely on the lens scale at all for DOF or Hyperfocal. I can live with the issue for now. Otherwise, the lens is a super performer. I will be posting an image from todays shoot tomorrow.
1bwana1 wrote:
Strange Rich. You have posted so many nice images from this lens.
Is this a new thing or have you just noticed it.
I will try my copy on both my M10-P, and my A1 and post my results.
Is there a specific aperture you think I should try? I was thinking of using something like 2.8 and also 8 to see if the matters.
Once you introduce the adapter 'variable', the focusing distance markings on the lens may no longer be accurate. The distance markings on M lenses were meant to be used on a M body for accuracy. Usually Voigtlander M lenses are precise enough on a Leica M body while Leica M lenses have even tighter tolerance.
As promised, I did some testing this morning. I only have the Metabones Leica M to E mount T adapter.
I set up some targets using a tape measure so exact distance from subject to the plane of the sensor was known. I used measured distances that had actual marks on the lens so no guessing was involved. I shot at a variety of apertures. It should be noted that my A1 has the original sensor glass.
On my M10-P the markings on the lens are spot on. Remarkably so. True at all distances, and all apertures. Infinity however is not exactly at the hard stop. But it is in the center of the "Infinity" symbol, which I suppose is probably intentional. Great job both Leica, and Cosina Voigtlander.
On my A1 the story is very different. Nothing is as marked on the lens. as an example the 5 foot target actually shows as about 4.33 feet on the lens markings. Infinity is to the left of the Infinity mark. In fact the actual focusing is to the left of the markings across the whole range. This is probably due to the thickness of the adapter.
It is not that big a deal for me as I use my M lenses on my Leica primarily. On the occasions where I do use my M lenses on the A1 I am relying on focus peaking and not zone focusing so the lens markings don't usually come into play.
Now that my curiosity has been tweaked I will test a couple of my CV e-mount lenses to see how close their markings are. I expect much better results.
Ok I just tested my 3 E-Mount Cosina Voigtlander lenses.
They are:
15mm Super Wide Heliar III ASPH
21mm Color Skopar ASPH
40mm f/1.2 Nokton ASPH
In each case the numbers matched up very well with the measured distance. Not quite as perfect as the M mounts do on a Leica M body, but so close that it is perfectly usable for Zone Focus applications. the largest miss was still inside the diameter of the round dot on the lens.
Also in each case infinity was perfect at the hard stop, which also was the very center of the "Infinity" Symbol.
These results are in stark contrast to how far off the adapted M mount lenses performed on the A1 body. It appears that the CV E-mount lenses are very well calibrated to the Sony bodies.
It seems that Cosina Voigtlander is very good at calibrating M mount lenses to M mount bodies, and E-Mount lenses to E-Mount bodies. The wild card is looking to be the adapters from various manufacturers for using M-Mount lenses on E-Mount bodies. Since CV has demonstrated very high competence in both of these lens/mount types, I would try out a Voigtlander M- E adapter. Order one from a company like B & H that has very good return privileges. Test it out. If it solves the issue, keep it. Otherwise return it. No risk.
You may also want to call Stephen at Camera Quest and ask about whether he is aware of the issue, and whether the CV adapter is designed to deal with it.
I did a quick test with my A7C and 28/2 Ultron II to compare the focusing scale position on the lens with 3 different adapters at the point where optimal infinity is reached in central area of the frame at f5.6 (targeting some buildings that are far away).
Rayqual reaches optimal infinity just a hair before hard infinity, and hard infinity still works fine as well (hard to tell any difference).
CV VM-E close focus adapter II (at infinity lock position) reaches optimal infinity at focus point between 5m and infinity marks on the lens, closer to 5m.
TTartisan 6-bit adapter reaches optimal infinity just before 3m mark on the lens.
Sadly wide angle lenses, are quite sensitive on differences on flange distance, 70cm to infinite are 1,2mm less than 1/16in.
My best adapter, with most correct flange distance, on e-mount was a Kipon that matched always my m mount cameras.
Now on SL2S M adapter L, is an hair shorter so on wide angles you can go a little more past infinity on hard stop. TT artisan M-L adapter i bought before was longer with infinity at hard stop, but i suspect it have more tolerance in machining than the Leica made one.
A nice solution, if your adapter have the right design, is add a shim inside the adapter, to get the right distance, do it when you have warm temperatures.
