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Archive 2021 · Cobalt Profiles

  
 
Ulysseita
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p.9 #1 · Cobalt Profiles


Mitch Alland wrote:
I admire what Ulysseita is doing with the Cobalt-Image profiles and presets, as it seems one can go nuts trying to get the color look one wants. Below is an M9 photo, about which someone on LUF wrote the following: I don’t know how to put it into words but I find this a very typical example of the M9 with the Summicron 35 iv. It will be my memory of this camera/lens combination. Probably the neutral if not slightly cool/blueish cast. Some people talk about the Kodachrome25 character of the M9 images, which you can see here also.

As
...Show more

Hi Mitch,

below are the samples, on left your picture on Adobe Standard, on the right the same file with Cobalt M9 DNG.
As you can see we are there, but, the Cobalt M9 DNG color is possible with ANY camera supported by Adobe BASIC DNG.
So if you have either a Leica M10 or a Canon 80d or a Nikon d750 ... that will be the color signature with our profile.

https://i.imgur.com/k8s2Y9i.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GxDdhPv.jpg

also, with FUJI pro 800
https://i.imgur.com/PhW5gAB.jpg

with Kodachrome Last Roll dark
https://i.imgur.com/2VzW8EH.jpg

with Kodachrome 4x5 dark
https://i.imgur.com/mxVoE1O.jpg

with FUJI Superia 1600
https://i.imgur.com/kCAC2mi.jpg

with (coming soon!) Portra 800
https://i.imgur.com/If674nk.jpg



Jun 02, 2021 at 12:22 PM
Mitch Alland
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p.9 #2 · Cobalt Profiles


Ulysseita wrote:
Hi Mitch,
below are the samples...As you can see we are there, but, the Cobalt M9 DNG color is possible with ANY camera supported by Adobe BASIC DNG.
So if you have either a Leica M10 or a Canon 80d or a Nikon d750 ... that will be the color signature with our profile...


Ulysseita - Wow that was fast, thanks! Most interesting, the ability to get a close match for the M9 from an M10 camera. I am almost finished sitting on the fence, and will have to figure out which preset package to get after getting the Adobe DNG Basic Pack.

For the presets, I'll wait to see your forthcoming Kodak Pack, because for real film, I like Portra 800 a lot; but it may be hard to resist the CCD Fever (for the M9 simulation) and the Kodachrome.
____________________
Frog Leaping photobook: https://www.frogleaping.org



Jun 02, 2021 at 12:52 PM
Woody84
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p.9 #3 · Cobalt Profiles


Ulysseita wrote:
with (coming soon!) Portra 800
https://i.imgur.com/If674nk.jpg


Would you mind to tell us more about upcoming emulations? Makes it easier to save some money now if something „better“ is in the pipeline 😉



Jun 02, 2021 at 01:13 PM
Ulysseita
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p.9 #4 · Cobalt Profiles


Woody84 wrote:
Would you mind to tell us more about upcoming emulations? Makes it easier to save some money now if something „better“ is in the pipeline 😉




Just a Kodak Film with:

Portra 160
Portra 400
Portra 800
E100G
Ektar
Gold




Jun 02, 2021 at 01:24 PM
cwnchkn
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p.9 #5 · Cobalt Profiles


@Ulysseita, will there be discounts for repeat customers?


Jun 02, 2021 at 01:51 PM
Woody84
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p.9 #6 · Cobalt Profiles


Ulysseita wrote:


Just a Kodak Film with:

Portra 160
Portra 400
Portra 800
E100G
Ektar
Gold



Finished by today or tomorrow? 🤓

Edited on Jun 02, 2021 at 01:59 PM · View previous versions



Jun 02, 2021 at 01:58 PM
Woody84
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p.9 #7 · Cobalt Profiles


cwnchkn wrote:
@Ulysseita@@, will there be discounts for repeat customers?


Or at least a mass discount?



Jun 02, 2021 at 01:59 PM
iso.light
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p.9 #8 · Cobalt Profiles


@Ulysseita: Can you please share the idea / concept behind the repro profile and comparison to the Cobalt Standard profile?

I really like what it does to colors, contrast, shadows, etc... but the only downside is that you need to boost the image exposure one full stop to get similar result compared to other profiles (so increase the noise floor). Thanks.

A quick comparison between four profiles, where I tried to produce similar results:



Ulysseita wrote:
Thank you!

We updated the database by adding the SL2s camera support.






Jun 03, 2021 at 05:27 AM
Ulysseita
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p.9 #9 · Cobalt Profiles


iso.light wrote:
@Ulysseita@: Can you please share the idea / concept behind the repro profile and comparison to the Cobalt Standard profile?

I really like what it does to colors, contrast, shadows, etc... but the only downside is that you need to boost the image exposure one full stop to get a similar result compared to other profiles (so increase the noise floor). Thanks.

A quick comparison between four profiles, where I tried to produce similar results:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51223121030_83c8923a3d_k.jpg



Think about >
Neutral is the standard without any color correction; Repro is a Neutral without hue shift compensation and contrast curve.
Compared to the "normal linear" profile the huge difference is the complete flatness of Repro; in "linear" profiles you still have part of the contrast curve inside the profile itself.

That's why you see a different exposure level needed to give the same histogram; This sample is a M9 DNG just captured...

https://i.imgur.com/5GXtwFH.jpg

and this is the light captured using the Adobe Color std when imported on LR.
https://i.imgur.com/bdYfZZS.jpg


using the REPRO
https://i.imgur.com/BmnlZHE.jpg

you have that
https://i.imgur.com/KE7P0gO.jpg

and starting with almost every information of the image needed (not having parts lost NOT for the camera itself but for the profile with an excessive contrast curve made by default for the scene) you can edit the picture for a perfect post-processing and you can give YOUR curve made fro the specific image.
Do not forget, that profile is USEFUL for hard colors or hard light environments..
https://i.imgur.com/3ayNJnJ.jpg

above a M9 under the sunlight... adobe color vs repro.
Yes, A color is punchy, pleasing on his red, but part of this red is gone.
Repro gives you all the information and the ideal starting point.

three days ago, my friend Mount Etna gave me this ...
Left Adobe Color, right REPRO
https://i.imgur.com/J7IlwUu.jpg

same as the flower, punchy colors on A color but a small margin for the editing with a very compressed red area.










Jun 03, 2021 at 06:35 AM
iso.light
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p.9 #10 · Cobalt Profiles


Thanks a lot for this detailed answer, I appreciate !


Jun 03, 2021 at 07:37 AM
Mitch Alland
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p.9 #11 · Cobalt Profiles


genji wrote:
No doubt impossible but the film emulation I’d most want is Three-strip Technicolor.


Ulysseita wrote:
...Think about >
Neutral is the standard without any color correction; Repro is a Neutral without hue shift compensation and contrast curve.
Compared to the "normal linear" profile the huge difference is the complete flatness of Repro; in "linear" profiles you still have part of the contrast curve inside the profile itself.

That's why you see a different exposure level needed to give the same histogram..


@genji
@Ulysseita

genji-sama's question about Three-strip Technicolor made me look at an old shareware raw developer by Andrey Tverdokhleb, called Raw Photo Processor 64, that I haven't used for a long time: it includes a Three-strip Technicolor simulation, under the name of "TC4" and "TC4v2". The latest version of RPP (v4.8.0) runs on my Mac under Mojave. Instead of sliders like LR it has keyboard controls.

When you open an image in RPP it's very dark: the manual explains that raw files opened in RPP look underexposed (dark, gray veiled) compared to other converters "because they really are underexposed. By default RPP shows images as they were captured by your camera in Raw with only essential tonal range adjustments. They may therefore look darker than you expect. Usually this happens because your camera’s light meter is calibrated to some low gray point value by the camera vendor. Most (if not all) modern DSLR cameras do this to preserve more highlights, and most other converters quietly apply compensation to your image to correct that."

That sounds like what Ulysseita is saying about Cobalt Repro — and I just tried RPP on an old M9 file that I've always (inexplicably) found difficult to process, and found I got better results, with a good amount of effort, than I had had with LR — although, subsequently, I was able to come close to those results in LR, using what I had done in LR as guide. Seems to me that the Cobalt Repro profile would make all this easier...
____________________
Frog Leaping photobook: https://www.frogleaping.org



Jun 03, 2021 at 07:59 AM
robert614
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p.9 #12 · Cobalt Profiles


I haven’t read the whole thread. Just curious if anyone has tried the basic profiles for the A1?

Lightroom profiles aren’t the best. Just wondering how the Cobalt profiles are?

And before someone suggests Capture One. I have it already. But I don’t really like the UI. Plus I’ve been using Lightroom so long. I have a hard time using any other program.

Anyways, any info will be much appreciated.

Robert



Jun 03, 2021 at 10:46 AM
Ulysseita
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p.9 #13 · Cobalt Profiles


robert614 wrote:
I haven’t read the whole thread. Just curious if anyone has tried the basic profiles for the A1?

Lightroom profiles aren’t the best. Just wondering how the Cobalt profiles are?

And before someone suggests Capture One. I have it already. But I don’t really like the UI. Plus I’ve been using Lightroom so long. I have a hard time using any other program.

Anyways, any info will be much appreciated.

Robert


On A1

Adobe
https://i.imgur.com/20DMmTK.jpg

Cobalt
https://i.imgur.com/xMJHvZS.jpg

Adobe
https://i.imgur.com/IjQ6Gt0.jpg

Cobalt
https://i.imgur.com/M35wnig.jpg

Adobe
https://i.imgur.com/ICvHkup.jpg

Cobalt
https://i.imgur.com/dr47OIA.jpg







Jun 03, 2021 at 02:15 PM
robert614
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p.9 #14 · Cobalt Profiles




Ulysseita wrote:
On A1

Adobe
https://i.imgur.com/20DMmTK.jpg

Cobalt
https://i.imgur.com/xMJHvZS.jpg

Adobe
https://i.imgur.com/IjQ6Gt0.jpg

Cobalt
https://i.imgur.com/M35wnig.jpg

Adobe
https://i.imgur.com/ICvHkup.jpg

Cobalt
https://i.imgur.com/dr47OIA.jpg





Wow! Thanks for taking the time to post these!

I’m always up for supporting small businesses. I think I will definitely give your profiles a try.

Thanks again! And best of luck with your business!

Robert



Jun 03, 2021 at 02:35 PM
Hodie
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p.9 #15 · Cobalt Profiles


Ulysseita wrote:
Think about >
Neutral is the standard without any color correction; Repro is a Neutral without hue shift compensation and contrast curve.
Compared to the "normal linear" profile the huge difference is the complete flatness of Repro; in "linear" profiles you still have part of the contrast curve inside the profile itself.

That's why you see a different exposure level needed to give the same histogram; This sample is a M9 DNG just captured...

https://i.imgur.com/5GXtwFH.jpg

and this is the light captured using the Adobe Color std when imported on LR.
https://i.imgur.com/bdYfZZS.jpg

using the REPRO
https://i.imgur.com/BmnlZHE.jpg

you have that
https://i.imgur.com/KE7P0gO.jpg

and starting with almost every information of the image needed (not having
...Show more

This is very useful to know. Thanks!



Jun 03, 2021 at 03:40 PM
ChrisMak
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p.9 #16 · Cobalt Profiles


Ulysseita wrote:
Think about >
Neutral is the standard without any color correction; Repro is a Neutral without hue shift compensation and contrast curve.
Compared to the "normal linear" profile the huge difference is the complete flatness of Repro; in "linear" profiles you still have part of the contrast curve inside the profile itself.



I bought the (Capture One) base profile set for both my cameras: Sony A7RII and Nikon D500. A few questions:

-Capture One uses single illuminant .icc profiles and you include two daylight profiles (apart from the "repro"): standard daylight and neutral daylight. As I understand the "neutral daylight" profile gives you the true to life colors, but you feel that a correction is needed, and so you make the "standard daylight" profile. How is this correction established and what is it that you feel needs to be corrected? Is it simply to make the images look more pleasing, or is there a more fundamental need for a color correction?

-Also: at what white balance range would you say that the single illuminant daylight profiles are truly accurate in CO1? Is that range narrow and do incorrect individual colors occur outside that narrow range, or does a color cast occur?

-I first bought the Nikon D500 profile, and noticed one peculiarity: pure yellow seems to be very strong", meaning that a pure yellow color tends to have a high saturation level and also high illumination intensity. This leads to colors around the yellow range, going into orange, not being faithfull or correct, but suffering from a shift towards yellow. I tested this on multiple yellow object in outside light, and also orange objects. It also leads to green colors looking slighly yellowish: e.g. grass in the sun having a too high level of yellow saturation.
I thought at first that the D500 profile could be slightly off, but after I got the Sony A7RII profile, I noticed the same, so my compliments for your profiles being very consistent. Is this emphasis on yellow illumination and saturation in pure yellow or adjacent colors part of a look that you strive for?

That was my critique on the profiles, but let me say that they are a must for Capture One users. To begin with, all Capture One profiles suffer from a default contrast level being far too high and blocking up the blacks and pushing the whites. You can use the "linear" base profile and tweak the contrast sure, but a realistic base profile has always been missing.
Moreover, Capture One profiles are very inconsistent across different cameras and have strange ways in which they oversaturate. For example, Capture One seems to love the blue channel and pushes blue saturation in skies in a way that is hard to correct and very far off a realistic baseline. The new ProStandard profiles push the blue channel saturation in ways that have you constantly battle clipping and skies consistently have a strange blueish cast.

There is a lot more to say about how Capture One makes your eyes get used to wrong color and contrast habits, but that would lead to far.
The Cobalt profiles help a lot to get closer to better habits regarding color and contrast. I use a calibrated Eizo CS2740 display b.t.w. just to make clear I that I what I am seeing is how it is meant to be.




Jun 03, 2021 at 04:03 PM
Ulysseita
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p.9 #17 · Cobalt Profiles


ChrisMak wrote:
I bought the (Capture One) base profile set for both my cameras: Sony A7RII and Nikon D500. A few questions:

-Capture One uses single illuminant .icc profiles and you include two daylight profiles (apart from the "repro"): standard daylight and neutral daylight. As I understand the "neutral daylight" profile gives you the true to life colors, but you feel that a correction is needed, and so you make the "standard daylight" profile. How is this correction established and what is it that you feel needs to be corrected? Is it simply to make the images look more pleasing, or is
...Show more

When you see different color "feelings" like the yellow or the green , compared o the Generic by C1 remember two things:
1- the habit of our eyes, for someone working 10 ours (at least) at day since 2010 in front on a calibrated monitor is normal but sometimes need to be recalled. Your eyes are addicted to color reproduction and if you put on the same image the HUE at -10 and you work for one hour on that, finally you'd swear when that is the correct one comparing it to the same with correct Hue on 0. The same happens on color signature on C1.. not constant and perhaps reddish-orange.

2- Our profiles are calibrated and you can see on our website (and on this topic as well) many comparison, data and details about how superior (for accuracy) are compared to the Adobe std and C1 generic and PRO.

so, answering..
1-standard profile is built with a correction for skin tone, let's say for more pleasing skin tones
neutral is more accurate for landscapes, Macro, commercial...etc.

2-daylight is for ... day... flash.. outside light until the night... and night without any artificial light.
tungsten is made for any artificial light.(warm mainly)

3- I think I answered in my prologue

Thank you for your honest review, and yes, even before our project I always complained about the capture one base profile... easy to understand why the level of NON-p1 profiles are so inconsistent... they started their interest in other customers (other than P1) in last two years and they assume you make your own profiles for pro works.


TIPS.
On c1 always LOWER structure and Clarity to -15 (both) and the sharpness almost at minimum, with low radious whit NR at maximum 10 .
After that, you can emphasize the area of interest with a mask and your favorite settings, by default they always put too much clarity and structure.and sometimes people confuse that with a better raw engine.

Again, thanks, we appreciated your feedback.



Jun 03, 2021 at 04:35 PM
genji
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p.9 #18 · Cobalt Profiles


Mitch Alland wrote:
genji-sama's question about Three-strip Technicolor made me look at an old shareware raw developer by Andrey Tverdokhleb, called Raw Photo Processor 64, that I haven't used for a long time: it includes a Three-strip Technicolor simulation, under the name of "TC4" and "TC4v2". The latest version of RPP (v4.8.0) runs on my Mac under Mojave. Instead of sliders like LR it has keyboard controls.

When you open an image in RPP it's very dark: the manual explains that raw files opened in RPP look underexposed (dark, gray veiled) compared to other converters "because they really are underexposed. By default"

That sounds like what Ulysseita is saying about Cobalt Repro — and I just tried RPP on an old M9 file that I've always (inexplicably) found difficult to process, and found I got better results, with a good amount of effort, than I had had with LR — although, subsequently, I was able to come close to those results in LR, using what I had done in LR as guide. Seems to me that the Cobalt Repro profile would make all this easier...
____________________
Frog Leaping photobook:
https://www.frogleaping.org
...Show more

Thanks, Mitch! I did actually use Raw Photo Processor years ago. Since I didn't want to pay USD96 or 192 for 1 or 2 of the RNI Technicolor presets, I went looking for other Technicolor simulations and found Raztrend Technicolor Profiles - Version 2 for USD15. Only 2 out of 50 were even vaguely useful to me, the rest resembling sample images from a LOMO or KONO film catalogue. I guess that the target audience is the Instagram filter crowd. But the RPP Technicolor simulations are great, so much so that I made a donation to support the developer and unlock the extra features.

That said, the Cobalt profiles, digital camera emulations, and film emulations—whilst not inexpensive—are superior to anything else on offer and IMO the developer's ability to respond promptly to issues and requests raised in this thread validates the technical approach they've taken. I also agree with your observations concerning the Repro profile and wonder if its usefulness is underappreciated.


Jun 03, 2021 at 05:39 PM
robert614
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p.9 #19 · Cobalt Profiles


Just wanted to say that I purchased the Basic Pack for the Sony A1.

I applied them to some recent family photos and compared them to the Adobe profiles. I must say, I’m impressed with the Cobalt profiles.

The colors are definitely more accurate with the Cobalt profiles. Particularly reds and pinks. Which tend to be too hot when using the Adobe profiles. And lack subtle gradations in color. But when I applied the Cobalt profiles, all those subtle gradations in red come back.

I am also liking the subtle pinkish hue added to the skin tones in the Cobalt Standard profile.

Overall, I am very pleased with the purchase.

Also a big thanks to Cobalt and Fred for the discount code!



Jun 04, 2021 at 12:44 AM
gchappel
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p.9 #20 · Cobalt Profiles


I primarily use dxo for my color work.
Could someone describe what the workflow would be in dxo?
Do the film simulations also work in dxo, or only the basic camera pack.
I do not see the dxo workflow described on the website- and with no trial software available, just want to be sure what I am getting into.
Thanks for any info.
gary



Jun 04, 2021 at 04:58 AM
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