Milan Hutera wrote:
Just a quick update - after a bit of hesitation, I just ordered the R6. Should be available tomorrow afternoon for pickup. Sadly it won't arrive in time for a soccer match that I will most likely shoot. I will see how today's large event will go with 5DIV, but after last week's two events and more frustration with its AF (one sitting and barely moving tubist casually playing the tuba - 4 shots in a row OOF, 5th was razor sharp), I'm ready to be blown away with AF accuracy and consitency again. Hopefully that will be the case with R6... ...Show more →
There's definitely a learning curve with the R6 AF, so don't write it off if your keeper rate isn't super high on your first outing, especially at a soccer match.
Mike_5D wrote:
There's definitely a learning curve with the R6 AF, so don't write it off if your keeper rate isn't super high on your first outing, especially at a soccer match.
I agree. It will take a while to get everything figured out and set up the way you want it on the R6.
Mike_5D wrote:
There's definitely a learning curve with the R6 AF, so don't write it off if your keeper rate isn't super high on your first outing, especially at a soccer match.
I did not take it to today's match, even though I was able to pick it up earlier than was originally scheduled. I only did some test shots around the house. I popped on 16-35 L IS, set it to f4 and 16mm, snapped a photo of a person inside the house at ISO 1000 and BANG - razor sharp photo. This would've been impossible with my 5DIV. For the past two years, 16-35 was a Coke bottle on that. For "still life", unless I made a mistake (like coming in too close ), it was impossible NOT to produce a sharp photo. Funnily enough, once I switched to face detect, I got some not so great photos, but again, that was inside, without flash and rather slow shutter speed.
Milan Hutera wrote:
I did not take it to today's match, even though I was able to pick it up earlier than was originally scheduled. I only did some test shots around the house. I popped on 16-35 L IS, set it to f4 and 16mm, snapped a photo of a person inside the house at ISO 1000 and BANG - razor sharp photo. This would've been impossible with my 5DIV. For the past two years, 16-35 was a Coke bottle on that. For "still life", unless I made a mistake (like coming in too close ), it was impossible NOT to produce a sharp photo. Funnily enough, once I switched to face detect, I got some not so great photos, but again, that was inside, without flash and rather slow shutter speed. ...Show more →
I never experienced the AF issues with my 5D3 that you had with the 5D4, but the R6 was definitely a big improvement in accuracy and resulting sharpness, easily negating the loss of 2 MP. I have found that servo AF basically sees what you see through the EVF. If exposure preview is enabled and you are underexposed, it will struggle. Disabling exposure preview or using single shot AF (where it temporarily boosts the exposure during AF) eliminates this issue. With the right settings, this camera can AF in conditions you'd struggle to even see in.
Milan Hutera wrote:
I did not take it to today's match, even though I was able to pick it up earlier than was originally scheduled. I only did some test shots around the house. I popped on 16-35 L IS, set it to f4 and 16mm, snapped a photo of a person inside the house at ISO 1000 and BANG - razor sharp photo. This would've been impossible with my 5DIV. For the past two years, 16-35 was a Coke bottle on that. For "still life", unless I made a mistake (like coming in too close ), it was impossible NOT to produce a sharp photo. Funnily enough, once I switched to face detect, I got some not so great photos, but again, that was inside, without flash and rather slow shutter speed. ...Show more →
Congrat's Milan, looking forward to hear your feedback once you start using it for your sport/action shooting !!!
IndyFab wrote:
Congrat's Milan, looking forward to hear your feedback once you start using it for your sport/action shooting !!!
Thanks. Sadly nothing glorious on the horizon. There is a boat trip for local kids and parents on tuesday so this should be a nice opportunity to test it in real world scenario. Then I'm definitely taking it to a local soccer match. The controls are quite different, but I'm slowly figuring the stuff out. I just wish I could turn off the constant liveview on the screen - but I hear there is a firmware update for that.
I have the EVF set up as the primary display but if I hit the DOF preview, it switches to rear lcd. I also have eco mode on that shuts things down in about a minute of no use or so.
First notes from using R6 on a not-so-demanding boat trip today:
- I have to re-learn and shoot less. I took about 250 photos, I could've taken about a 100 less, because it just nails focus. I used spot focus point AF almost exclusively. I don't dare to use Face Detect/Tracking with multiple people in the shot just yet.
- The photos that didn't turn out great were mostly my fault - like using too slow a shutter speed with 24-70 L II. I'm wondering where is the IBIS toggle. I should probably read the manual...
- Going back from 30mpix files is tough, just as I expected. But that has to do with me not utilizing the capabilities of the camera and being stuck in "AF Array limitation" in my brain.
- I noticed on quite a lot of photos, that I was about 1 stop underexposed.... I was using mechanical shutter and no H+ drive mode, so I didn't notice anything ugly when pushing the exposure by 1+ stop.
- Ok, I was shooting in really awful conditions - really ugly and strong sunlight, colored tarps overhead that affect everything and I know I'm using now long unsupported software, but MAN, Adobe Standard color profile is UGLY AS F... I hear this is a problem on Creative Clown as well, since they haven't figured out how to extract Canon profiles yet.
- The body actually feels good in my large hands, which is really surprising. I was thinking about buying a grip eventually, but they ask crazy money for it...
Milan Hutera wrote:
I used spot focus point AF almost exclusively. I don't dare to use Face Detect/Tracking with multiple people in the shot just yet.
Once you get familiar with its behavior and learn to trust it a bit, the tracking is great. Put the initial point on your subject, human or not, engage AF, and recompose while it holds focus on the subject. Most of the time, this is quicker than trying to move a single AF point around for best composition. The only time I let the camera pick the subject to track is when I know there will only one subject in frame, such as portraits or a singe athlete. In that case, it's easier to just let the camera find the face regardless of where it is while I concentrate on other things. I have several pages of custom menus configured because I find myself changing various things to suit the situation much more than I did with the 5D3.
Mike_5D wrote:
For lenses without optical IS, the camera's red SHOOT7 menu page has an item for controlling IBIS.
For lenses with optical IS, the lens's switch will control both optical and IBIS.
Thanks, found it. I was using mostly 70-200 L IS II and 16-35 L IS for which there is only "Digital IS" option in Shoot 7. 24-70 L II is my only non-IS lens, so that had some more options.
I also hear you about creating Custom Menus. I had that on all my cameras that supported this feature and I usuallz put 5-6 settings that I use on regular basis. But with this camera I feel I will have to put in a lot more stuff to be able to switch quickly. Or maybe not, I just have to get used to the different button layout.
I tried to shoot some RAW+Jpeg photos today, becaue a thing might be coming up, where I will have to use Jpegs and I was blown away how much better they got. Sharpening is still a bit gritty (will have to lower it a bit), but they seem to be fine. Jpeg at ISO 3200 was perfectly usable.
Yes, I have found sharpening to be a bit strong-handed, I guess for a lack of another term. JPG files look a bit "artificial" or over processed if you do anything with increasing sharpness settings in the picture styles.
I also have my eye/ITR tracking set up to start at an initial point for AF ON, and then spot AF for *. No issues at all with focus grabbing the wrong face in the crowd, etc with this, and if focus cannot be attained on what I want, I try to use * to use spot AF.
Ok, so today I went to a local soccer match like I said about two weeks ago. Unfortunately, it was scheduled to 10:30AM, which meant I had a decent light for one half and absoultely horrific light for the other half. I much prefer afternoon matches, because that way I get great light for one half and good light for the other. I used my 300 f2,8 L IS exclusively to see how artificially crippled it actually is.
I used Case 4 AF with dialed down Tracking sensitivity to "Locked On". And I did it "oldschool" by using a spot AF point. Overally I was impressed with quite a few shots, even though I had misfocused shots. I tried the 120Hz setting on the viewfinder and while the smooth videofeed was nice, I didn't really find it to be a "must have" feature. The electronic shutter mode is brutal. So is the rolling shutter. I have one photo where the player was throwing the ball from the sideline and it looks like we were playing rugby or american football . Can't imagine the havoc it will do on a tennis match. On most shots it's somewhat under control, but I did notice the leaning verticals too... I'll be going to a couple more games, I'm not sure if I should post anything from today's game, since there isn't anything there that I *really liked*.
Please post some shots. Were you on a full sized pitch? There was another user recently debating between the R6 and R5 for soccer and was concerned he'd not have enough reach at 400-500 mm with the R6.
Mike_5D wrote:
Please post some shots. Were you on a full sized pitch? There was another user recently debating between the R6 and R5 for soccer and was concerned he'd not have enough reach at 400-500 mm with the R6.
I was on a full size pitch, since this was "men's 7th league" match. These are guys with regular jobs, who find the time and energy to play this competition on Sundays, so you can't expect too much "pro moves and appearance" from them. Heck, we're glad they found the willpower and energy to even commit themselves to playing this year. These local teams come and go. We haven't had a men's squad for a long time. For the past two-three years, we had U15 kids squad, but unfortunately not this year.
I've seen that thread and my take on the reach is this: unfortunately soccer is a sport where you can't expect to capture *everything*. You have 20 players running around and you can have a perfect tackle between two players in the ideal distance from you and.... just as the perfect moment is about to happen, someone just wanders in front of it. This gets worse as the distance (and focal length) increases. Another problem is, that the photographer's position is usually locked for the duration of the half. At this level I can put myself pretty much anywhere I want, but I can't possibly be running around the sidelines the entire time. I'd miss so much of the action that actually happens during these matches I wouldn't capture anything at all. So the best thing is to stop worrying about the fact I won't be able to capture a situation 80 meters from my position (which would most probably not end up being a "pretty photo" anyway) and just pick a position and focus on the action within reasonable distance. On a pitch this size, it is physically impossible to cover everything yourself. You'd have to split yourself into two or three persons...
A bit of experimenting with the away goalie and the corner flag. There is some funky stuff going on in there, but the flag was perforated so there were some blue posts visible there. This was in mechanical shutter mode so... https://milanhutera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/IMG_0894.jpg
Glad it's working out for you. I agree somewhat about the reach question. Sure, there are times when there might be journalistic value to something that happened on the other side of the field, but it's usually not an attractive looking image because the action is too close to the background, etc. In other words, if you're trying to make good looking images, closer action will usually be preferred.
That said, if you're seeing R6 rolling shutter effects, apparently that is a benefit of the R5, if not filling the frame. If the subject is small in the frame, it takes less time to scan that smaller portion of the frame, resulting in less rolling shutter effect.
rscheffler wrote:
Glad it's working out for you. I agree somewhat about the reach question. Sure, there are times when there might be journalistic value to something that happened on the other side of the field, but it's usually not an attractive looking image because the action is too close to the background, etc. In other words, if you're trying to make good looking images, closer action will usually be preferred.
That said, if you're seeing R6 rolling shutter effects, apparently that is a benefit of the R5, if not filling the frame. If the subject is small in the frame, it takes less time to scan that smaller portion of the frame, resulting in less rolling shutter effect....Show more →
Yes, this was a throw from the sideline, fairly close and right across the frame. I'm thinkng this was the worse case scenario, although I've seen some funky looking photos from tennis. The ball is smaller but it travels much faster compared to a soccer ball. I'll see. Maybe I'll ask for credentials in September if I feel like it and if I won't have other paid shoots. I believe R5 has a faster scan rate than R6, which should be 1/50 sec. But like I said earlier, R5 just wasn't in the cards this time.
Mike_5D wrote:
Please post some shots. Were you on a full sized pitch? There was another user recently debating between the R6 and R5 for soccer and was concerned he'd not have enough reach at 400-500 mm with the R6.
That was me. Thanks for thinking of my post!
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Milan Hutera wrote:
I was on a full size pitch, since this was "men's 7th league" match. These are guys with regular jobs, who find the time and energy to play this competition on Sundays, so you can't expect too much "pro moves and appearance" from them. Heck, we're glad they found the willpower and energy to even commit themselves to playing this year. These local teams come and go. We haven't had a men's squad for a long time. For the past two-three years, we had U15 kids squad, but unfortunately not this year.
I've seen that thread and my take on the reach is this: unfortunately soccer is a sport where you can't expect to capture *everything*. You have 20 players running around and you can have a perfect tackle between two players in the ideal distance from you and.... just as the perfect moment is about to happen, someone just wanders in front of it. This gets worse as the distance (and focal length) increases. Another problem is, that the photographer's position is usually locked for the duration of the half. At this level I can put myself pretty much anywhere I want, but I can't possibly be running around the sidelines the entire time. I'd miss so much of the action that actually happens during these matches I wouldn't capture anything at all. So the best thing is to stop worrying about the fact I won't be able to capture a situation 80 meters from my position (which would most probably not end up being a "pretty photo" anyway) and just pick a position and focus on the action within reasonable distance. On a pitch this size, it is physically impossible to cover everything yourself. You'd have to split yourself into two or three persons...
A bit of experimenting with the away goalie and the corner flag. There is some funky stuff going on in there, but the flag was perforated so there were some blue posts visible there. This was in mechanical shutter mode so... https://milanhutera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/IMG_0894.jpg
Again, nothing spectacular here. Had it been an afternoon match I would have had much nicer light for both halves. ...Show more →
Big thing for me is trying to get isolated pictures of the players for their parents (U12 league). I can't ever go on the far side of the field, and sometimes the coach keeps some of the kids on his side of the field both halves (presumably to issue instructions). I need to talk to him about that, lol. But i'm just not sure I want to invest in the R5, it being so much more and requiring a further investment in expensive memory cards. I ran the R6 for one weekend on the smaller field last year (they switch to the larger field at U12, U11s still play on a smaller one). The speed and AF was GREAT, as you have seen and shown in your photos. I just need to get over the MP thing. Or wait until the R6 II, but that is years away at least. I could have a lot of fun with the R6 in the meantime!
As you can see from the examples above, there are keepers (bokeh/Isolation) and then there are the crops (throwaways IMO). The crops look like snapshots taken with any rebel camera in P mode with a kit lens or worse yet any smart phone. If the crops are your style then get an R5 and crop away...otherwise, use a fast piece of glass and shoot within your focal range and get professional looking images like his non crops above.
As you can see from the examples above, there are keepers (bokeh/Isolation) and then there are the crops (throwaways IMO). The crops look like snapshots taken with any rebel camera in P mode with a kit lens or worse yet any smart phone. If the crops are your style then get an R5 and crop away...otherwise, use a fast piece of glass and shoot within your focal range and get professional looking images like his non crops above....Show more →
I have one photo where the player was throwing the ball from the sideline and it looks like we were playing rugby or american football 
. Can't imagine the havoc it will do on a tennis match. On most shots it's somewhat under control, but I did notice the leaning verticals too... I'll be going to a couple more games, I'm not sure if I should post anything from today's game, since there isn't anything there that I *really liked*.