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Archive 2021 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events

  
 
Milan Hutera
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p.1 #1 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


Hello everybody.

I rarely start a topic, so here goes . The title pretty much says it all, but I owe you some explanation of why I'm starting this and what situation I'm in.

Although I'm pretty much convinced that my career of shooting sports is pretty much over, there are parts of me that still keep hanging in there and hoping for better times. The cold hard truth is, the *virus that shall not be named* pretty much destroyed everything that has to do with sports, especially in my country. The money will be in short supply for the next few years for sure, there are some sporting events that have been cancelled two years in a row now. Even before the pandemic, the situation was terrible. Despite rising costs of everything, the service fees for photographers were getting lower and lower. The magazine I worked for pretty much stopped using any freelance service and just before Christmas it officially disbanded. The other magazine I did some materials for in the past (including writing) paid so little money it was laughable for anyone who actually had to go to the event and not write about it from the comfort of his/her home. Essentially, this was pretty much a side gig for writing journalists, who looked for a way to earn some more money. If you actually had to go somewhere (usually on a weekend and by car), then the transportation costs alone would be essentially as high as the money you would receive for your piece. Anyway...

Almost two years ago, when it wast time to replace my aging 1D Mark IV, I got 5D Mark IV. "Nah, it will be fine," I said. I don't mind 7 fps. They say the AF is as good as 1 series camera, so that's what matters.... It's no secret here that I absolutely LOATHE the AF of 5DIV. It's jumpy, unreliable and the layout of the array is simply horrific. There were countless times when I simply had to take 5-6 photos instead of 1-2 because the AF wouldn't simply lock where I wanted it to. I would guestimate, that over 1.5 years, I put about 7-8000 additional shots on my shutter because of this. The group shots are for some reason a nightmare to take with this camera. One shot AF or AI Servo - doesn't matter. I take 6 shots, refocus between each shutter press and 4 of them are slightly out of focus that sharpening won't save. My 16-35L IS and 70-200 L IS II were reduced to coke bottles because of AF inconsistency. Last week I was shooting some "Earth day" stuff - some trash cleaning and the AF once again gave me a headache with 70-200 L IS II. The AFMA values, that have been working for me simply didn't. I had to go +20(!) on Tele end to get it working. When I got home, I did some testing and settled on +2... on the same freaking day and in the same freaking light!!! "Well, why didn't you have it serviced then," you might ask. Last year I did send it to CPS after disasterous tennis session in broad daylight (which would be a walk in the park for 1D IV, we are talking ISO 100 - 200 and 1/2000sec. SS). It came back a week later with "The AF behavior cannot be changed at service center" message.

So with two and two together, this cannot continue. I have lost almost all the joy from shooting "moving stuff" with this camera, because I know how much missed shots I will have to go through once I get home. I do like the files it produces and when it hits the files are great. To be fair, it still hits quite a lot of times, but there were quite a lot of times when I missed the good shots because it was OOF and a lot of time strangely unresponsive. This leaves me two choices - R5 or R6. With everything I've written here, R5 is out of the question, price wise. So I'm looking to get an R6 with the intention of keeping 5DIV as a "tripod" camera when I'll be needing bigger files or find myself in less demanding situations.

Here are my thoughts and "concerns" with R6:
- the file size - yes, 20mpix is significantly less than 30mpix, but since I'll get the freedom to put my AF point basically anywhere in the frame and the AF will work great (I'm hoping), I will have to crop a lot less with this camera. When I deliver my files, I usually deliver 16mpix anyway so they are all the same size.
- the mechanical shutter limit - my main telephoto is 300mm f2.8 L IS, which is supposed to go 7-8fps in mechanical shutter mode. Although I think this is nothing but a kick in the balls from Canon, since the same lens happily fires away at 10-12 or even higher FPS on a DSLR, this doesn't concern me that much. I like to be more deliberate and as long as the AF will deliver it's OK.
- the AF, from what I understand, is superb and on the level of 1Dx/1DxII.
- the shutter life is 300 000 actuations, which is great for "body economy/depreciation" of the camera. On 5DIV it's half that and given the cost of a new one, the cost per 1000 frames is abysmal, when I want it to be paid after certain number of shots.
- the 20fps electronic shutter/rolling shutter - I don't know how big of a problem it is. Since my main telephoto is crippled and would go faster only in electronic shutter mode, I'd like to know more.
- the reduced bit depth and dynamic range in electronic shutter mode concerns me a bit, but in high ISO scenarios, this is less apparent in high ISO scenarios.
- I've noticed that several people on this board mentioned that they "don't like shooting motorsports" with R5/6. Why?
- how is the weather sealing on the camera? I hear it's not as good as R5, which should be a little bit better than 5DIV, but still decent.
- how is the size/grip of R6? For my height (5"11 or ~180cm) I have pretty big hands and the grips of both 1DIV and 5DIV are fine, but could be a bit bigger...
- I will be doing a DNG conversion of the files for the forseeable future in case anybody wanted to know.

I've done some quick math and R6 + EF/RF adapter, a spare battery and two decent SD cards are expensive, but doable - especially considering that there is a Canon cashback available until August. Regular posters here will know what I'm about and what "quality" I'm looking for. So please, share your opinions about the concerns I've raised about R6 or any other positive/or negative! experiences with the camera and most importantly pictures of *moving things*.

Thanks!

Edit: Of course, I took a look at "Post your R6 photos" thread, but there aren't that many photos there to begin with and only some of them were sports shots.



May 03, 2021 at 09:30 AM
Jman13
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p.1 #2 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


Milan Hutera wrote:
Edit: Of course, I took a look at "Post your R6 photos" thread, but there aren't that many photos there to begin with and only some of them were sports shots.


A lot more people on this forum went for the R5 rather than the R6. I have both, and they are both outstanding cameras. I think you've laid out the pros/cons well, so I think it's all up to whether you feel the benefits are worth the cost. I think the R6 has plenty of resolution for most uses, and I use it for a lot of my casual shooting and family photography, as well as a backup to my R5, but I've used it for other things as well with great success, and I don't think the difference from 30MP is a particularly big deal.

The AF on the R6 (and R5, since it's the same), is outstanding, and the EyeAF works brilliantly. Makes composition so much easier and nicer to use. AF tracking is outstanding as well.



May 03, 2021 at 09:54 AM
JimmyJames
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p.1 #3 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


I own two R6 bodies and bought them for action photography - marching band, color guard, indoor winds, indoor percussion, and dance. They have performed very well with both adapted EF glass and native RF glass. I also shoot some sports and have done features and covers for a local magazine. The R6 performed very well.

When shooting action, I am in a volume situation where we shoot it "right in the camera" and don't crop or post-process. (A small amount of post-processing is done once purchased and the customer and do a crop as well.) The R6 handled things great when filling the frame. Eye focus even with masks was pretty amazing. It didn't like a mask plus raccoon makeup on performers' eyes. I used the RF 70-200 f2.8 or a 400 f4 DO II,

I began to love the ability to do a 1.6 crop in camera for additional reach. A few weeks ago, I switched to dance and it became necessary with the 70-200 going between groups, trios, duets, and soloists. Sadly the only option was to save the same settings twice to C1 and C2 with one being crop and one being full frame. Moving the dial at speed was a pain for 12 hour plus days.

I picked up an R5 last week (Allen's Camera - highly recommended) since it allowed me to do the same but assign it to the M Fn button. Super sweet.

That said, the R6 never once overheated, This weekend I was 12 hours into a 14 hour day and had 6500 photos under my belt when the R5 displayed the white temperature warning icon. I panicked. I did continue and never shut down but I did notice autofocus performance was not as solid. I didn't think the camera would overheat in photo mode but later learned higher ISO can cause overheating.

That said, both the R5 and R6 are amazing action cameras.



May 03, 2021 at 09:55 AM
CelesteForza
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p.1 #4 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


Just picked up a pair of R6's to replace my 5D4's. The difference in AF is night and day. It's actually more like deep inside a dark cave on a moonless night with dark sunglasses vs midday sun on the beach. While I loved the 5D4's file, build quality, viewfinder, it absolutely sucked shooting backlit, moving subject, and the whole focus/recompose shooting wide open with fast lenses. My EF L glass adapted to the R6 look like they were modified by Leica
The other day I shot nearly 1000 images wide open with my 50 1.2L and 135 2L and nearly all (maybe 4-5 OOF) were tack sharp on the eye ball.
While I don't shoot sports anymore, I have plenty of experience shooting hundreds of NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, Soccer, including World Cup final. Trust me when I tell you that you will drop kick your 5D4 after the first use on an R5/R6.



May 03, 2021 at 11:02 AM
leewoolery
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p.1 #5 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


Milo:

Two words "get It."

I also posted these in the sports forum.

I am old school so examples are what I look at...not so much words.



© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021




May 03, 2021 at 12:03 PM
Milan Hutera
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p.1 #6 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


leewoolery wrote:
Milo:

Two words "get It."

I also posted these in the sports forum.

I am old school so examples are what I look at...not so much words.


Awesome examples, thanks! I see you have a tennis shot there and also some baseball shots. Since your EXIF shows that you're shooting with OG 400 f2.8 L IS, which is the same vintage as my 300 f2.8 L IS, I'm assuming you shot those with electronic shutter? If so the warping is negligible or non existing.



May 03, 2021 at 01:32 PM
Milan Hutera
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p.1 #7 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


Thanks to everybody who responded so far, your experiences are very helpful.

CelesteForza wrote:
Just picked up a pair of R6's to replace my 5D4's. The difference in AF is night and day. It's actually more like deep inside a dark cave on a moonless night with dark sunglasses vs midday sun on the beach. While I loved the 5D4's file, build quality, viewfinder, it absolutely sucked shooting backlit, moving subject, and the whole focus/recompose shooting wide open with fast lenses. My EF L glass adapted to the R6 look like they were modified by Leica
The other day I shot nearly 1000 images wide open with my 50 1.2L and 135 2L and
...Show more

Haha, true, there have been numerous times when I wanted to drop kick it, although I always used our term throw it to the ground...



May 03, 2021 at 01:37 PM
leewoolery
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p.1 #8 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events




Milan Hutera wrote:
Awesome examples, thanks! I see you have a tennis shot there and also some baseball shots. Since your EXIF shows that you're shooting with OG 400 f2.8 L IS, which is the same vintage as my 300 f2.8 L IS, I'm assuming you shot those with electronic shutter? If so the warping is negligible or non existing.


Milan:

Mechanical shutter for baseball, softball, tennis shot and discus but track and field...full 20 frames per second electronic shutter.

1st generation 400 f/2.8 works, almost, flawlessly on R5/R6 with electronic shutter.

Biggest problem is how to edit 60 razor-sharp images from a 3 second action sequence.

The battery pack, with 2 fully charged batteries, has allowed me to shoot over 6000 stills and still leave over 50% charge left.



May 03, 2021 at 01:47 PM
johnbro27
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p.1 #9 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


Have a 5DIV and a 1DIV both of which I love but the AF performance on each of them can be hit or miss. Was super skeptical about mirrorless as opposed to DSLRs but decided to give the R6 a try out--rented for a week. Holy cow! What a camera. So many positives and so few negatives (battery life of course being probably #1). Wound up buying the rental unit, no regrets. I think if you get one you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.


May 03, 2021 at 02:19 PM
drimer
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p.1 #10 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


R5, 1Dx (I), and former 5D4 user here. I had a 1D4 as well that I sold a year ago.

You’ve pretty much nailed the situation in your description. I’ve shot the R5 with 200mm, 300mm, and 400mm older gen lenses. I find the 7FPS mode to be a little jumpy in the EVF for my liking, so I shoot the older lenses almost entirely in Eshutter. I notice distortion in about 10-15% of shots—think skewed backgrounds (rolling shutter) with a fast pan, distorted soccer balls (slight ovals), slightly backwards-bent baseball bats, slight pixelation and distortion on the edge of a spiked volleyball, etc. Running, diving, jumping, or other human motion is generally fine.

The AF tracking with anything EF blows the 5D4 out of the water. Exceeds the 1Dx substantially as well. Don’t miss my old 1D4 AF because the new tracking is so much better.

Distortion may be a big issue. If the R3 corrects this issue fully I will give it a long look.



May 03, 2021 at 04:16 PM
artsupreme
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p.1 #11 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


The R6 works great for sports but you won't like the stuttering EVF. I've gotten used to it and it's something that will get better with future generations of Canon MILC.

I shot the motocross shots posted in the R6 thread and I've shot many more since I posted those. I shoot with the mechanical shutter and you will be happy with the results. Biggest negative is the EVF and the battery life, so just bring extra batteries. Other than that it's a good little camera and if you get two large SD cards you won't have to bring extra cards or card readers with you anymore while traveling.



May 03, 2021 at 06:37 PM
leewoolery
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p.1 #12 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


Milan:

If budget allows, get the R5 with battery grip..

From my experience AF is the same but you can use the CFExpress card and I like controls better but 45 megapixels allows for some serious cropping.

Play around with the mechanical vs. electronic shutters to find what works best for you with different sports.

I found the RF lenses are incredibly sharp and AF is noticeably quicker and more accurate than adapted EF lenses.

Some of the following were taken with the RF100-500. Fantastic lens for daytime sports.





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021





© Lee Woolery Speedshot Photo 2021




May 03, 2021 at 07:14 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #13 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


Strange, my 5d4 does sports very well and the R6 handles sports well too, unless there is no face or eyes seen. That is where my 5d4 does better and spot AF works better as well.

It is all about configuration, both cameras will need different setups to get the most from sports.



May 03, 2021 at 10:11 PM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #14 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events




Milan Hutera wrote:
Hello everybody.

I rarely start a topic, so here goes . The title pretty much says it all, but I owe you some explanation of why I'm starting this and what situation I'm in.

Although I'm pretty much convinced that my career of shooting sports is pretty much over, there are parts of me that still keep hanging in there and hoping for better times. The cold hard truth is, the *virus that shall not be named* pretty much destroyed everything that has to do with sports, especially in my country. The money will be in short supply for the
...Show more

I'd sure put more effort into trying to figure out the 5D4 issues if it was me. Otherwise it's rather a waste to have it just sitting around. Maybe ask about af settings here or try a different repair center if available?



May 03, 2021 at 11:56 PM
Uarctos
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p.1 #15 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


From my experience the 5D4 AF is perfectly fine for sports. The subject is large in the frame, with great contrast and moving at relatively slow speed or on a predictive path. I would not upgrade to a R6 for some reasons: low resolution, EVF, battery life and because my 5D4 gets the job done so no need to spend more for that. R5 may be a different story at some point.


May 04, 2021 at 02:54 AM
leewoolery
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p.1 #16 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events




Uarctos wrote:
From my experience the 5D4 AF is perfectly fine for sports. The subject is large in the frame, with great contrast and moving at relatively slow speed or on a predictive path. I would not upgrade to a R6 for some reasons: low resolution, EVF, battery life and because my 5D4 gets the job done so no need to spend more for that. R5 may be a different story at some point.


With all due respect, I purchased the 5D Mark IV for the studio a couple of years ago to be used on team photo days, senior and studio portraits and stills at weddings but not for action photography.

The R6 is an action camera, plain and simple, and for the money, one of the best available and the AF on that camera cannot be compared to the AF on the 5D Mark IV.

The eye/ face tracking feature alone sets it apart as a camera to be used for action photography.

The 1Dx is an action camera but the R6 is ahead of it as far as AF acquisition and tracking and the the R6 is even better than the 1Dx Mark III in focusing.

The 5D Mark IV is an excellent general purpose camera but it would not be one I would recommend to anyone for action photography.







May 04, 2021 at 06:30 AM
artsupreme
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p.1 #17 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


5DIV is not in the same league as the R6 for sports, not even close. As for R5 vs R6 for sports, go with the R6 all day long. If you want your sports images to look professional then you should be shooting tight with minimal cropping and 20MP is plenty.


May 04, 2021 at 10:30 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #18 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


I've seen some nice sports photos posted on here from 5D4, so I'm having a hard time buying the af is bad. I know mirrorless is the hot new thing, but the op said his paid sports gigs have dried up, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to me recommend a $2500 camera.

The op kinda has to figure out the 5D4 issues regardless. It might be hard to get the best price in a sale, or it might sit there gathering dust if he doesn't. Kind of like fixing a car before you sell it, either way you have to take care of the issues unfortunately




May 04, 2021 at 11:58 AM
Davidof
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p.1 #19 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


An example - a serie of photos by R6 + 85/1,2 @ 1.2, face detect

https://ibb.co/album/HtDF63

I have never seen such CAF.



May 04, 2021 at 12:38 PM
Davidof
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p.1 #20 · Convince me to buy R6 for sports/events


and rack zomm, a former weak point of MILC

https://ibb.co/album/3RfsHT



May 04, 2021 at 12:43 PM
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