Steve Spencer wrote:
Interesting. The price of the 75 cron APO for me meant that I could get the 50 lux Asph or the the 75 cron APO, but not both. I think I will be happy with the 75 f/2.4 summarit. I like its size and all I have seen about its performance. What didn't you like about the 75 summarit or is it just there is more to like about the 75 cron APO?
The Summarit 75 is an excellent lens. The only thing I didn’t like about the f/2.5 version was its 0.9m minimum focusing distance, which doesn’t of course apply to your f/2.4 lens. The Nokton 75/1.5 was the problem. I despise the kitsch retro styling of the Voigtlander Classic Line and the awkward, inconsistent haptics that are a consequence of that ugly, self-indulgent design language, the Nokton 75 being a particularly egregious example. Compared to the Summarit, the Nokton looks and feels—to me—cheap and nasty. Optically, the Nokton is fine but if one hates looking at a lens, let alone touching it, then it’s not going to get much use. It occurred to me that if I was willing to pay the penalties (f/2 instead of f/1.5 plus an additional payment) I could replace the Summarit and the Nokton with a lens that would complement my 35 and 50 APO-Lanthars. I found a mint APO-Summicron 75 at an acceptable price and it’s turned out to be everything I’d hoped for.
genji wrote:
The Summarit 75 is an excellent lens. The only thing I didn’t like about the f/2.5 version was its 0.9m minimum focusing distance, which doesn’t of course apply to your f/2.4 lens. The Nokton 75/1.5 was the problem. I despise the kitsch retro styling of the Voigtlander Classic Line and the awkward, inconsistent haptics that are a consequence of that ugly, self-indulgent design language, the Nokton 75 being a particularly egregious example. Compared to the Summarit, the Nokton looks and feels—to me—cheap and nasty. Optically, the Nokton is fine but if one hates looking at a lens, let alone touching it, then it’s not going to get much use. It occurred to me that if I was willing to pay the penalties (f/2 instead of f/1.5 plus an additional payment) I could replace the Summarit and the Nokton with a lens that would complement my 35 and 50 APO-Lanthars. I found a mint APO-Summicron 75 at an acceptable price and it’s turned out to be everything I’d hoped for....Show more →
I always appreciate your candid posts but I full-hearted disagree with your description of the Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5 Nokton's style and build. I do understand this is entirely subjective though.
Optically, I find it to be one of the best fast 75mm lenses on the market. Well-built and super compact for a f/1.5 telephoto lens. I find it to have the perfect balance between resolution, contrast and spherical aberration. It's also sharp at mid-distance from wide open around the center area while competing with our best lenses like the CV 65/2 APO after f/4. I wish Voigtlander would produce more lenses like this using the same concept and design. The Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 II offers a similar look but I was hoping for a CV 125 Nokton in this vein.
I agree with Genji about build and look of VC75mm. At the same time, I also fully agree with Fred about performance of this lens.
For one stop faster than Leica equivalent, with less weight and size, this lens earn a spot in my M lenses setup. I choose it over 75cron for one stop faster and choose it over 90APO with size and speed though I would prefer a 90mm for a 28/50/90 setup.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I always appreciate your candid posts but I full-hearted disagree with your description of the Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5 Nokton's style and build. I do understand this is entirely subjective though.
Optically, I find it to be one of the best fast 75mm lenses on the market. Well-built and super compact for a f/1.5 telephoto lens. I find it to have the perfect balance between resolution, contrast and spherical aberration. It's also sharp at mid-distance from wide open around the center area while competing with our best lenses like the CV 65/2 APO after f/4. I wish Voigtlander would produce more lenses like this using the same concept and design. The Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 II offers a similar look but I was hoping for a CV 125 Nokton in this vein....Show more →
The world would be a strange place if we all agreed on all matters. Of the Voigtlanders it's my favourite lens to use, and I hope they make more in this vein. And a little controversy is no bad thing, as MF lenses age very slowly - it's why Zeiss still has a reputation.
They got the balance just right in this one. But I speak as a Sony user, the M ecosystem is half a world away. That's where I'd like to be right now - half a world away.
1. The fire hydrant - there's that 'liquid paint look' the CV APOs do so well.
2. It doesn't often get mentioned but the front DOF envelope is very neatly done on the 35/2, and it matters (to me) in isolating the focal plane with still some detail. We tend to inspect rear bokeh with the intense gaze of a cardiac surgeon, but front is (very) important in some compositions.
Tim has a good example (flowers) at p.10 #20. A secret 3D tip! On that subject, I can't recall seeing a better image depth rendition in a 35mm - quite extraordinary in fact, and not down just to microcontrast and strong plane. I'm so looking forward to the opportunity of using it, next foray. My first 35mm ever, what a slacker. (non RX1 anyway, which in some ways does not count)
Fred Miranda wrote:
If there is enough interest, I may pick up a Leica 35mm f/2 APO to compared to the Voigtlander...What say you?
OMG, yes please!
Yeah, I doubt I'll get the 35 Cron APO in this lifetime, but from samples I've seen on the LUF board, It looks to have a great balance of sheer performance and desirable rendering (if you like smooth modern). It's the latter I'm most interested in seeing compared with the CV 35 APO: 2-3m subject distance with not too distant background.
I'm going to guess that the CV hangs in there with it, or even betters it in technical aspects. It'll once again boil down to more subjective considerations.
Be careful Fred, you might like it enough to keep, haha. Slippery slope.
genji wrote:
The Summarit 75 is an excellent lens. The only thing I didn’t like about the f/2.5 version was its 0.9m minimum focusing distance, which doesn’t of course apply to your f/2.4 lens. The Nokton 75/1.5 was the problem. I despise the kitsch retro styling of the Voigtlander Classic Line and the awkward, inconsistent haptics that are a consequence of that ugly, self-indulgent design language, the Nokton 75 being a particularly egregious example. Compared to the Summarit, the Nokton looks and feels—to me—cheap and nasty. Optically, the Nokton is fine but if one hates looking at a lens, let alone touching it, then it’s not going to get much use. It occurred to me that if I was willing to pay the penalties (f/2 instead of f/1.5 plus an additional payment) I could replace the Summarit and the Nokton with a lens that would complement my 35 and 50 APO-Lanthars. I found a mint APO-Summicron 75 at an acceptable price and it’s turned out to be everything I’d hoped for. ...Show more →
Fred Miranda wrote:
I always appreciate your candid posts but I full-hearted disagree with your description of the Voigtlander 75mm f/1.5 Nokton's style and build. I do understand this is entirely subjective though.
Optically, I find it to be one of the best fast 75mm lenses on the market. Well-built and super compact for a f/1.5 telephoto lens. I find it to have the perfect balance between resolution, contrast and spherical aberration. It's also sharp at mid-distance from wide open around the center area while competing with our best lenses like the CV 65/2 APO after f/4. I wish Voigtlander would produce more lenses like this using the same concept and design. The Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 II offers a similar look but I was hoping for a CV 125/1.5 Nokton. ...Show more →
I have no qualms with what Cosina is releasing optically, but I agree that their multiple design styles are annoying in use when you're coming from a set of lenses that all have a unified design. Whether Leica M or Zeiss ZM. With VM it's a mixed bag. One of my biggest peeves is their omission of the little red hump to line up the lens with the lens mount. Because it's not possible to find that point by feel, I have to look for it every time I swap to that lens (in my case the VM 35/1.7), which slows me down. I change lenses a lot and sometimes even out doing landscapes in the woods, there might be a brief moment of ideal light and I want to compose the scene with various lenses. I love the newer Leica wides with the screw-in rectangular metal hoods. I can put them back into the bag in one motion, and when going back to one, will already know the orientation of the lens relative to the mount by the feel of the hood. IMO this is an example of getting what you pay for. It's a very small detail in some ways, but at least to me, it makes a big difference when handling multiple lenses during an outing. Just more harmonious. I wish Cosina would do a complete ergonomic redesign and unify on one modern design. The vintage styling has a certain nostalgic appeal, but I don't buy their lenses to look at them on the shelf. My 2¢
Yeah, I doubt I'll get the 35 Cron APO in this lifetime, but from samples I've seen on the LUF board, It looks to have a great balance of sheer performance and desirable rendering (if you like smooth modern). It's the latter I'm most interested in seeing compared with the CV 35 APO: 2-3m subject distance with not too distant background.
I'm going to guess that the CV hangs in there with it, or even betters it in technical aspects. It'll once again boil down to more subjective considerations.
Be careful Fred, you might like it enough to keep, haha. Slippery slope.
I have no qualms with what Cosina is releasing optically, but I agree that their multiple design styles are annoying in use when you're coming from a set of lenses that all have a unified design. Whether Leica M or Zeiss ZM. With VM it's a mixed bag. One of my biggest peeves is their omission of the little red hump to line up the lens with the lens mount. Because it's not possible to find that point by feel, I have to look for it every time I swap to that lens (in my case the VM 35/1.7), which slows me down. I change lenses a lot and sometimes even out doing landscapes in the woods, there might be a brief moment of ideal light and I want to compose the scene with various lenses. I love the newer Leica wides with the screw-in rectangular metal hoods. I can put them back into the bag in one motion, and when going back to one, will already know the orientation of the lens relative to the mount by the feel of the hood. IMO this is an example of getting what you pay for. It's a very small detail in some ways, but at least to me, it makes a big difference when handling multiple lenses during an outing. Just more harmonious. I wish Cosina would do a complete ergonomic redesign and unify on one modern design. The vintage styling has a certain nostalgic appeal, but I don't buy their lenses to look at them on the shelf. My 2¢...Show more →
I will compare them and update the review whenever I upgrade to the Leica M10-R. It may take a while.
The Leica APO is not even available in my partner stores.
tsdevine wrote:
I agree, I actually had been using Photo Ninja when doing comparisons just so I could avoid that uncontrolled variable. The CV is pretty amazing for LaCA in a 35mm lens. Honestly, some of the newer lenses I've picked up over the past year or two have started making my "great" lenses look just "very good."
I will ask Cosina why the Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-E-mount does not have an automated Lightroom profile. Personally, I prefer this way have asked Adoble to stop with the forced correction for all lenses. I'm curious why Cosina make this decision since t he Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO and the APO macro lenses have automated correction in LR.
Kildras wrote:
While I am loving the 50APO, the rendering is so clinical that it makes it quite a specialized lens imo.
It looks like the 35mm is no different.
Voigtlander APO lenses may be lacking in "character" but this is actually a design goal. When testing lenses, we rate them according to how well they control color aberration, spherical aberration, coma, distortion, etc...
Whenever a lens approaches perfection, they start lacking flaws and I think that's what you are referring to.
In my option, highly corrected lenses do have a unique character though. Call it a well-corrected look, clinical or whatever adjective out there but in many ways this look might be preferable depending on the application.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Voigtlander APO lenses may be lacking in "character" but this is actually a design goal. When testing lenses, we rate them according to how well they control color aberration, spherical aberration, coma, distortion, etc...
However when a lens approaches perfection, they start lacking something and I think that's what you are refering to.
In my option, highly corrected lenses do have a unique character though. Call it a well-corrected look, clinical or whatever adjective out there but in many ways this look might be preferable depending on the application.
I agree on the look of well corrected lenses. They defiantly have character and are quite beautiful (from corner to corner!) I feel it is a falsehood when everyone seems to accept that they are characterless. Thanks for saying otherwise!
is surely on the creative side. The lens definitely has character.
And more....
I love the look they can give when everything is sharp, it's like looking into a crystal clear pool of water. Hyper real.
I have also found that it deals with light to shadow beautifully. I think it will perform in the haze of summer and well as fog. It can handle dreamy - in a perfectly correct manner!
On an A7R4 they can also give a kind of medium format look due to their incredible resolution. I bet they do the same for any sensor they are on - just to a lesser degree.
They have so many endearing qualities.
I am getting to know the 50 better after using the 35. In the 50 fov I have options but in 35mm fov I dont really see many good lenses so I've used this 35mm in many different ways and it just performs. I guess like any lens the key is using it in the correct situations and so far these apo's perform beautifully in a wide range of conditions so are very useful.
I love the look they can give when everything is sharp, it's like looking into a crystal clear pool of water. Hyper real.
I have also found that it deals with light to shadow beautifully. I think it will perform in the haze of summer and well as fog. It can handle dreamy - in a perfectly correct manner!
On an A7R4 they can also give a kind of medium format look due to their incredible resolution. I bet they do the same for any sensor they are on - just to a lesser degree.
They have so many endearing qualities.
I am getting to know the 50 better after using the 35. In the 50 fov I have options but in 35mm fov I dont really see many good lenses so I've used this 35mm in many different ways and it just performs. I guess like any lens the key is using it in the correct situations and so far these apo's perform beautifully in a wide range of conditions so are very useful.
A fair amount of the character many are looking for is the almost unique cross frame look that places all objects right where they should be in image space, all registered with the same level of accuracy and resolution, and excellent colour.
The effect is so strong that it's a signature look. I see a lot of the better Contax Yashica lenses in this series, updated with more micro-contrast and lower aberration loads. Luckily it also does very acceptably what might be called 'informed bokeh'.
There are very few users or industry people who know the CV lenses better than the readers of FM. Because of manual focus and the fact that they fall between the commercial world of photography and the Leica M ecosystem, the CV lenses will remain 'fringe'. You get the feeling the Cosina people smile when they reflect on this situation.
