This topic is in the 2021 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2021Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
p.5 #1Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
abadger wrote:
I'll move over to yours!
It seems that these filters do smooth bokeh and OOF areas, so if anyone's is interested in more discussion you can pop over to the other discussion.
Someone mentioned do the filters work at higher studies, which is a good point. I'll look into this and post there.
Thanks!
The OOF areas/bokeh of the 35mm GM in some circumstances can be not as smooth as that seen with the Sigma 1.2, for example, not surprisingly as the Sigma is faster, though also, IMHO, the Sony has been engineered for sharpness and quite a bit of contrast.
Has anyone experimented with Black pro mist filters for this purpose?
These filters, and similar ones by competitors, are often used by videographers to soften the "digital" look from digital video cameras.
Here's the schpiel from the producer:
"-Contrast is lowered, but with less lightening of shadows for a more delicate effect
-Creates a soft light "pastel" effect
-Delicate effect with contained highlight flare
"... unique layering of contrast combined with a gauzy paint like halation, function as a twist on the stand of the pro halation spill effect. Even at its lowest density, it delivers an effective and increase in the halation which adds a pleasing depth of warmth, but is not transported to the skin tone values. "
https://tiffen.com/products/black-pro-mist-filter
I have nothing to do with this company. Some people prefer other similar filters. They're not cheap. Saw Lindsay Adler using one in a video.
The Black pro mist 1/8 has a weak effect, the 1/4 more (often used for portraits) and the 1/2 even more. If you use higher strengths then the chances of light "blooming" increases, so you have to watch out for that. Some people use higher strengths for higher FL I believe (or vice versa, I can't remember!).
They say that it reduces contrast and doesn't effect sharpness or skin tones (good for portraits! Don't think such an effect can exactly be accomplished in post processing as the random tiny specks of matter in the filter disperse light slightly, producing different effects according to the subject/light etc)
Anyway, I decided to do a few test shots with an A7RII and the Sony 35mm GM.
These photos were taken with EFCS off and manual focused to around a few feet, I think it was, to isolate not such smooth OOF areas.
No filter:
https://i.imgur.com/7l3cz1X.jpg
Black pro mist 1/2:
https://i.imgur.com/8Bo1rvg.jpg
No filter:
https://i.imgur.com/2RjbDMZ.jpg
Black pro mist 1/2:
https://i.imgur.com/4t8L1oM.jpg
No filter:
https://i.imgur.com/eXPouuH.jpg
Black pro mist 1/4:
https://i.imgur.com/xpxsUAC.jpg
At first glance you may not notice much of an effect (especially with the 1/4 strength), though to my eye I can see reduced contrast and softer rendering.
If anyone is interested I can do more experiments (the effect should be more pronounced with back light as there would be more blooming), and your own experiments would be useful if you have such a filter.
I use them when doing portraits, and when I can't be bothered to work on background OOF areas to smooth them more (which I've never done anyway though haven't used such a crazy sharp contrasty lens like the 35mm GM before), so it might save you some post processing of the background if you feel the effect is OK for you.
ThanksThere is already a thread started for this exact thing here recently! This thread covers BPM mist among others at different FL's and such:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1695216/0
It would be great if you posted your examples and thoughts in that so we don't have multiple threads covering the same thing--it's a much more valuable/helpful source for the FM community when info/testing/discussion is centralized.+1 to seeing more shots with the black pro mist 1/4 on the GM35. I have been looking at this exact combination and would be interested to know the results with a person as a subject and varying levels of background foliage. Bonus if the background foliage is just a little bright, because the GM renders OOF highlights a bit brighter than other lenses. But whatever subjects you have available to you is fine, anything really is appreciated. I will look for them in the other thread!I've just bought one. Nice it will work with the FE 35mm f/1.4 GM and Sigma 65mm f/2 DG DN. lenses.Ah great! Looking forward to your thoughts on it.
I've been using the Tiffen "software" version and will compare it to the real filter.
Fred Miranda wrote
abadger wrote
rainio wrote
Oh, wow! This looks like it's turning into the internet's definitive diffusion filter discussion!I'll move over to yours!
It seems that these filters do smooth bokeh and OOF areas, so if anyone's is interested in more discussion you can pop over to the other discussion.
Someone mentioned do the filters work at higher studies, which is a good point. I'll look into this and post there.
Thanks!
nehemiahphoto wrote
rainio wrote
Hello,The OOF areas/bokeh of the 35mm GM in some circumstances can be not as smooth as that seen with the Sigma 1.2, for example, not surprisingly as the Sigma is faster, though also, IMHO, the Sony has been engineered for sharpness and quite a bit of contrast.
Has anyone experimented with Black pro mist filters for this purpose?
These filters, and similar ones by competitors, are often used by videographers to soften the "digital" look from digital video cameras.
Here's the schpiel from the producer:
"-Contrast is lowered, but with less lightening of shadows for a more delicate effect
-Creates a soft light "pastel" effect
-Delicate effect with contained highlight flare
"... unique layering of contrast combined with a gauzy paint like halation, function as a twist on the stand of the pro halation spill effect. Even at its lowest density, it delivers an effective and increase in the halation which adds a pleasing depth of warmth, but is not transported to the skin tone values. "
https://tiffen.com/products/black-pro-mist-filter
I have nothing to do with this company. Some people prefer other similar filters. They're not cheap. Saw Lindsay Adler using one in a video.
The Black pro mist 1/8 has a weak effect, the 1/4 more (often used for portraits) and the 1/2 even more. If you use higher strengths then the chances of light "blooming" increases, so you have to watch out for that. Some people use higher strengths for higher FL I believe (or vice versa, I can't remember!).
They say that it reduces contrast and doesn't effect sharpness or skin tones (good for portraits! Don't think such an effect can exactly be accomplished in post processing as the random tiny specks of matter in the filter disperse light slightly, producing different effects according to the subject/light etc)
Anyway, I decided to do a few test shots with an A7RII and the Sony 35mm GM.
These photos were taken with EFCS off and manual focused to around a few feet, I think it was, to isolate not such smooth OOF areas.
No filter:
https://i.imgur.com/7l3cz1X.jpg
Black pro mist 1/2:
https://i.imgur.com/8Bo1rvg.jpg
No filter:
https://i.imgur.com/2RjbDMZ.jpg
Black pro mist 1/2:
https://i.imgur.com/4t8L1oM.jpg
No filter:
https://i.imgur.com/eXPouuH.jpg
Black pro mist 1/4:
https://i.imgur.com/xpxsUAC.jpg
At first glance you may not notice much of an effect (especially with the 1/4 strength), though to my eye I can see reduced contrast and softer rendering.
If anyone is interested I can do more experiments (the effect should be more pronounced with back light as there would be more blooming), and your own experiments would be useful if you have such a filter.
I use them when doing portraits, and when I can't be bothered to work on background OOF areas to smooth them more (which I've never done anyway though haven't used such a crazy sharp contrasty lens like the 35mm GM before), so it might save you some post processing of the background if you feel the effect is OK for you.
Thanks
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1695216/0
It would be great if you posted your examples and thoughts in that so we don't have multiple threads covering the same thing--it's a much more valuable/helpful source for the FM community when info/testing/discussion is centralized.
I've been using the Tiffen "software" version and will compare it to the real filter.
May 01, 2021 at 12:33 PM
p.5 #2Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Fred Miranda wrote:
I'll move over to yours!
It seems that these filters do smooth bokeh and OOF areas, so if anyone's is interested in more discussion you can pop over to the other discussion.
Someone mentioned do the filters work at higher studies, which is a good point. I'll look into this and post there.
Thanks!
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1695216/0
It would be great if you posted your examples and thoughts in that so we don't have multiple threads covering the same thing--it's a much more valuable/helpful source for the FM community when info/testing/discussion is centralized.+1 to seeing more shots with the black pro mist 1/4 on the GM35. I have been looking at this exact combination and would be interested to know the results with a person as a subject and varying levels of background foliage. Bonus if the background foliage is just a little bright, because the GM renders OOF highlights a bit brighter than other lenses. But whatever subjects you have available to you is fine, anything really is appreciated. I will look for them in the other thread!I've just bought one. Nice it will work with the FE 35mm f/1.4 GM and Sigma 65mm f/2 DG DN. lenses.Ah great! Looking forward to your thoughts on it.I've been using the Tiffen "software" version and will compare it to the real filter.
Curiosity always prevails
abadger wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
abadger wrote
rainio wrote
Oh, wow! This looks like it's turning into the internet's definitive diffusion filter discussion!I'll move over to yours!
It seems that these filters do smooth bokeh and OOF areas, so if anyone's is interested in more discussion you can pop over to the other discussion.
Someone mentioned do the filters work at higher studies, which is a good point. I'll look into this and post there.
Thanks!
nehemiahphoto wrote
There is already a thread started for this exact thing here recently! This thread covers BPM mist among others at different FL's and such:https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1695216/0
It would be great if you posted your examples and thoughts in that so we don't have multiple threads covering the same thing--it's a much more valuable/helpful source for the FM community when info/testing/discussion is centralized.
Curiosity always prevails
May 01, 2021 at 01:10 PM
p.5 #3Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
I'll post some images with the black pro must 1/4 and 1/2 with portraits with the 35GM and OOF backgrounds, though have to say I do like the effect of these filters for portraits - I believe that the way light reflects off skin (small points of reflected light off pores/skin texture - more so without makeup, I guess) means that the filters selectively reduce the skin texture a bit, whilst giving the skin a slight glow (as the skin texture reflects light with micro-halatians, possibly?) and softening the background whilst reducing contrast a bit And keeping detail ie. all good effects for portraits (or other stylised images ie. creating "character", atmosphere of a "filmic" look), and can make an otherwise very sharp lens (eg 35GM) into a "portrait rendering" lens.
Can such a filter turn the 35GM into a sigma 1.2? (I ask, tongue in cheek). Let's see if we can find out.
Can such a filter turn the 35GM into a sigma 1.2? (I ask, tongue in cheek). Let's see if we can find out.
May 01, 2021 at 01:24 PM
p.5 #4Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Excited more people are trying these, and some lovely examples so far. Here are some examples. I like subtle affect with the 1/8 on the 35i as is shifts the palate to cooler, which does well for the 35i yellow caste.
35i w/ BPM 1/8
35i w/ BPM 1/8
35i w/ BPM 1/8
35i w/ BPM 1/8
I was hoping to be able to stack or get images with this look of the 35 lux pre-asph, but I haven't found the right combo. Not sure if my testing on the last page was helpful for others who might be looking to replicate a certain lens look, rather than just take off the edge/alter the native rendering/IQ.
35 Lux Pre-Asph
35i w/ BPM 1/8
35i w/ BPM 1/8
35i w/ BPM 1/8
35i w/ BPM 1/8
I was hoping to be able to stack or get images with this look of the 35 lux pre-asph, but I haven't found the right combo. Not sure if my testing on the last page was helpful for others who might be looking to replicate a certain lens look, rather than just take off the edge/alter the native rendering/IQ.
35 Lux Pre-Asph
May 01, 2021 at 01:51 PM
p.5 #5Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Just thought I’d make a thread and centralized zone/FM resource for diffusion (or really any special effect) with some samples. The CV 75/1.5 thread has been high jacked a bit (or maybe more of plot twist if we are being optimistic!), but here are a couple links and test photos, and I’ll post more below:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1608503/23
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1608503/26#15556673
For those that don’t know, there are several companies that make diffusion filters. I went with Tiffen which is a reputable brand. The filters seem to be geared towardscinematographers historically and even now more than still shooters. However, while I like lots of modern...Show more →
I'm playing the the Tiffen black Mist diffuser software and it matches the look of your images with the variety of filter strengths but can't replicate the halation on the light pole image. However they offer another called just 'mist' which does create halation. Perhaps a combination of the two will get something similar to a real filter. When I get my 1/4, I will test it out.
Just thought I’d make a thread and centralized zone/FM resource for diffusion (or really any special effect) with some samples. The CV 75/1.5 thread has been high jacked a bit (or maybe more of plot twist if we are being optimistic!), but here are a couple links and test photos, and I’ll post more below:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1608503/23
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1608503/26#15556673
For those that don’t know, there are several companies that make diffusion filters. I went with Tiffen which is a reputable brand. The filters seem to be geared towardscinematographers historically and even now more than still shooters. However, while I like lots of modern...Show more →
I'm playing the the Tiffen black Mist diffuser software and it matches the look of your images with the variety of filter strengths but can't replicate the halation on the light pole image. However they offer another called just 'mist' which does create halation. Perhaps a combination of the two will get something similar to a real filter. When I get my 1/4, I will test it out.
May 01, 2021 at 08:55 PM
p.5 #6Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Fred Miranda wrote:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1608503/23
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1608503/26#15556673
For those that don’t know, there are several companies that make diffusion filters. I went with Tiffen which is a reputable brand. The filters seem to be geared towardscinematographers historically and even now more than still shooters. However, while I like lots of modern glass, sometimes the images are simply too clinical, contrasty or not to my liking while I the AF, small, size, weather sealing, flare resistance, ability to be serviced etc. desirable. Or I might want an affect that a filter offers for a particular shooting context or subject. These filters offer the best way I have found to get a different look, often softer or more vintage, or just tone down the IQ in a transparent not gimmicky way.
I know there are various virtual filters and post processing to manipulate images in about every way, I have not had the kind of success or ease that I have with diffusion filters so far in post. But, please do drop links, thoughts or your own tests and images to enrich the thread—it’s for all of use to learn. I know @HelenaH, @bjhurley@@@ and @highdesertmesa@@ and @Fred Miranda@ have been actively discussing and can contribute helpful info/experience.
Lastly, I have made 2 raw files available for anyone who wants to try and share virtual filters so we all have a shared reference point
Please manipulate away and tell use what you did. Also, I have 3 other types of filters coming I will use on a Tamron 70-180 and Samyang 75/1.8.
Some notes:
- The BlackPro Mist, which is common, has several side affects: lessening contrast by lifting shadows, halation of point light sources (see test photo of light pole), smoother tonal transitions in the light and highlights and a “pastel” affect on images, which I have found to be a slight but noticeable shift in the color palate that is cooler and gives a bit of a fine matt-type texture. One other nice affect I had no read or considered but have observed is axial CA is diminished as filter strength goes up--which makes sense as tonal shift are less distinct and contrast is lowered. Bokeh is also softened as contrast again is lowered and you’re affecting adding SA.
You will find, you need to change your processing when dealing with filtered files, and your files will look different. With the Black ProMist, I really like how the filter soften clouds with light and highlight tonal transitions like the high contrast b/w posted below. In my experience, the filter allows for a high contrast push of the files that does not feel crisp or uber modern in a good way (road photo). On finely detailed or textured subjects, the filter can have a very softening and flattering affects (Yuri photo) while still retaining rendering and tonal richness.
- the strength is rated as 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1, 2, 3 with 1/8 being the weakest and the 3 the most pronounced. That metric system seems to be common across manufactures, though I have read the strength of a filter, say 1/8, from each maker will vary. Longer FL’s generally need a stronger filter to get the same affect. For instance, I have found a 35mm will take a 1/8 to equal my 75mm getting a 1/4. Roughly, the 1/2 on my 35mm’s equals the 1 on my 75mm.
- the filters range in their affect. Some reduce resolution and micro-contrasts for a more flattering look but don’t change the feel of the image and are described as transparent. Others, like the test shots might add any color shifts, blooming, halation, modulate contrast conspicuously, change color temp, fog, tobacco filters, creates halos etc.
- Some filters add speckling in the bokeh due to the way the filter glass is engineered as @bjhurley@@@@@ kindly pointed out. This seems to be filter based, and only at some focusing distances with some lenses—please feel to share more if you know more here.
Original:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099685809_df45c75733_k.jpg
Pentax 31 ltd crops:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099700377_03c53a68b1_k.jpg
Original:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51100159048_0cf31bf385_k.jpg
CV 75/1.5 WO Crops:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099686004_0ec9c65e4d_k.jpg
Original:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099618326_8d1d7657c3_k.jpg
35i crops:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099606236_56acd0b90c_k.jpg
Original:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099698854_0791fd4171_k.jpg
CV 75/1.5 crops:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099713867_89f07c1538_k.jpg
Real Photo RAW Export with CV 75/1.5 @f1.5 w/BPM 1:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099623836_4ff2396441_k.jpg
Real Photo with CV 75/1.5 edited to taste:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51100429390_c2e4e2b2b0_k.jpg
31 Pentax @1.8 A7c:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51100411205_c5abd2d1b3_k.jpg
31 Pentax @1.8 A7c with BPM 1/8:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099685849_e311c82cb9_k.jpg
And below are more real world images using the filters:I'm playing the the Tiffen black Mist diffuser software and it matches the look of your images with the variety of filter strengths but can't replicate the halation on the light pole image. However they offer another called just 'mist' which does create halation. Perhaps a combination of the two will get something similar to a real filter. When I get my 1/4, I will test it out.
I'll be watching. I have also noticed when putting on BPM that I loose about a quarter to a third stop of light. It would be interesting to know how much light we are loosing with a specific filter
nehemiahphoto wrote
Just thought I’d make a thread and centralized zone/FM resource for diffusion (or really any special effect) with some samples. The CV 75/1.5 thread has been high jacked a bit (or maybe more of plot twist if we are being optimistic!), but here are a couple links and test photos, and I’ll post more below:https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1608503/23
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1608503/26#15556673
For those that don’t know, there are several companies that make diffusion filters. I went with Tiffen which is a reputable brand. The filters seem to be geared towardscinematographers historically and even now more than still shooters. However, while I like lots of modern glass, sometimes the images are simply too clinical, contrasty or not to my liking while I the AF, small, size, weather sealing, flare resistance, ability to be serviced etc. desirable. Or I might want an affect that a filter offers for a particular shooting context or subject. These filters offer the best way I have found to get a different look, often softer or more vintage, or just tone down the IQ in a transparent not gimmicky way.
I know there are various virtual filters and post processing to manipulate images in about every way, I have not had the kind of success or ease that I have with diffusion filters so far in post. But, please do drop links, thoughts or your own tests and images to enrich the thread—it’s for all of use to learn. I know @HelenaH, @bjhurley@@@ and @highdesertmesa@@ and @Fred Miranda@ have been actively discussing and can contribute helpful info/experience.
Lastly, I have made 2 raw files available for anyone who wants to try and share virtual filters so we all have a shared reference point
Please manipulate away and tell use what you did. Also, I have 3 other types of filters coming I will use on a Tamron 70-180 and Samyang 75/1.8.Some notes:
- The BlackPro Mist, which is common, has several side affects: lessening contrast by lifting shadows, halation of point light sources (see test photo of light pole), smoother tonal transitions in the light and highlights and a “pastel” affect on images, which I have found to be a slight but noticeable shift in the color palate that is cooler and gives a bit of a fine matt-type texture. One other nice affect I had no read or considered but have observed is axial CA is diminished as filter strength goes up--which makes sense as tonal shift are less distinct and contrast is lowered. Bokeh is also softened as contrast again is lowered and you’re affecting adding SA.
You will find, you need to change your processing when dealing with filtered files, and your files will look different. With the Black ProMist, I really like how the filter soften clouds with light and highlight tonal transitions like the high contrast b/w posted below. In my experience, the filter allows for a high contrast push of the files that does not feel crisp or uber modern in a good way (road photo). On finely detailed or textured subjects, the filter can have a very softening and flattering affects (Yuri photo) while still retaining rendering and tonal richness.
- the strength is rated as 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1, 2, 3 with 1/8 being the weakest and the 3 the most pronounced. That metric system seems to be common across manufactures, though I have read the strength of a filter, say 1/8, from each maker will vary. Longer FL’s generally need a stronger filter to get the same affect. For instance, I have found a 35mm will take a 1/8 to equal my 75mm getting a 1/4. Roughly, the 1/2 on my 35mm’s equals the 1 on my 75mm.
- the filters range in their affect. Some reduce resolution and micro-contrasts for a more flattering look but don’t change the feel of the image and are described as transparent. Others, like the test shots might add any color shifts, blooming, halation, modulate contrast conspicuously, change color temp, fog, tobacco filters, creates halos etc.
- Some filters add speckling in the bokeh due to the way the filter glass is engineered as @bjhurley@@@@@ kindly pointed out. This seems to be filter based, and only at some focusing distances with some lenses—please feel to share more if you know more here.
Original:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099685809_df45c75733_k.jpg
Pentax 31 ltd crops:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099700377_03c53a68b1_k.jpg
Original:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51100159048_0cf31bf385_k.jpg
CV 75/1.5 WO Crops:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099686004_0ec9c65e4d_k.jpg
Original:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099618326_8d1d7657c3_k.jpg
35i crops:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099606236_56acd0b90c_k.jpg
Original:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099698854_0791fd4171_k.jpg
CV 75/1.5 crops:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099713867_89f07c1538_k.jpg
Real Photo RAW Export with CV 75/1.5 @f1.5 w/BPM 1:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099623836_4ff2396441_k.jpg
Real Photo with CV 75/1.5 edited to taste:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51100429390_c2e4e2b2b0_k.jpg
31 Pentax @1.8 A7c:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51100411205_c5abd2d1b3_k.jpg
31 Pentax @1.8 A7c with BPM 1/8:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099685849_e311c82cb9_k.jpg
And below are more real world images using the filters:
I'll be watching. I have also noticed when putting on BPM that I loose about a quarter to a third stop of light. It would be interesting to know how much light we are loosing with a specific filter
May 01, 2021 at 09:16 PM
p.5 #7Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
abadger wrote:
And I really enjoyed Helena’s use of the filter as well, in those golden hour shots. This plus softening contrast for portraits would be the main use case for me. Wondering if I should get two strengths. Then can stack as needed.I think getting two strengths is a good call if you don’t mind the cost and schlepping them around, plus you can stack as you mentioned to build up to a higher strength. I think a 1/8 and 1/4 combo would be pretty flexible for you since I know you are mostly a 35/50/85 guy for portraits like I am. The 1/8 will give you a nice bit of halation for night shots without looking too much like an obvious effect, especially at 35mm, and you could switch to 1/4 for 85mm and maintain a reasonably consistent look in a set of images. I would probably use the Dream Filter and 1/4 for that application since I don’t have a 1/8 as I think the halation is likely pretty similar, but it may not have as big an impact on contrast. It’s also much cheaper than a BPM of the same size.
On top of that, the lighting conditions really make a huge difference in the effect so you may want to use a different strength depending on the situation. Obviously light has to hit the filter in order for it be diffused and the more light that hits it directly, the stronger the effect will be. You may find yourself going for a lower strength in a backlit scene and the higher strength in shade, for example. You’ll have to play around and see what works best for you.This is good to know about the effects at different focal lengths, thank you. The other debate I’m having is whether to buy the larger filter and step up rings because the Samyang 85 is 77mm vs the 67mm GM and the 72mm 50 f1.4 ZA. I guess the real question is: do I need the hood? Should I remove the hood on purpose for effect? I don’t suppose the hood will fit with step up rings attached.
I found this on the Q and A section of the Tiffen filter site for BPM filters specifically:
"Stronger filters are needed for longer focal lengths as the diffusion effect decreases with longer focal lengths, however there are no established guidelines."
https://tiffen.com/products/black-pro-mist-filter
My rough rule, is there's a one "stop" difference at least from 35 to 75mm. The filters double (a "stop") in strength from 1/8 to 1/4 to 1/2 to 1 and so on.
The way I think about it 35 + 1/2 BPM = 75 + 1 BPM in terms of affect if that makes sense. I have tried some of the other Tiffen filters at 24 - 180mm, now, but have no rough equivalency like above.
fuzzykeys wrote
abadger wrote
I think I saw some of these in that lens thread and it is what prompted me to look into the pro mist filter. I am a fan of the look it gives at night, sort of a pseudo cinestill effect with the light blooms.And I really enjoyed Helena’s use of the filter as well, in those golden hour shots. This plus softening contrast for portraits would be the main use case for me. Wondering if I should get two strengths. Then can stack as needed.
On top of that, the lighting conditions really make a huge difference in the effect so you may want to use a different strength depending on the situation. Obviously light has to hit the filter in order for it be diffused and the more light that hits it directly, the stronger the effect will be. You may find yourself going for a lower strength in a backlit scene and the higher strength in shade, for example. You’ll have to play around and see what works best for you.
I found this on the Q and A section of the Tiffen filter site for BPM filters specifically:
"Stronger filters are needed for longer focal lengths as the diffusion effect decreases with longer focal lengths, however there are no established guidelines."
https://tiffen.com/products/black-pro-mist-filter
My rough rule, is there's a one "stop" difference at least from 35 to 75mm. The filters double (a "stop") in strength from 1/8 to 1/4 to 1/2 to 1 and so on.
The way I think about it 35 + 1/2 BPM = 75 + 1 BPM in terms of affect if that makes sense. I have tried some of the other Tiffen filters at 24 - 180mm, now, but have no rough equivalency like above.
May 01, 2021 at 09:28 PM
p.5 #8Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm playing the the Tiffen black Mist diffuser software and it matches the look of your images with the variety of filter strengths but can't replicate the halation on the light pole image. However they offer another called just 'mist' which does create halation. Perhaps a combination of the two will get something similar to a real filter. When I get my 1/4, I will test it out.
Where were you able to track down the software? I’d love to take it for a spin as well!
I'm playing the the Tiffen black Mist diffuser software and it matches the look of your images with the variety of filter strengths but can't replicate the halation on the light pole image. However they offer another called just 'mist' which does create halation. Perhaps a combination of the two will get something similar to a real filter. When I get my 1/4, I will test it out.
Where were you able to track down the software? I’d love to take it for a spin as well!
May 02, 2021 at 01:15 PM
p.5 #9Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
fuzzykeys wrote:
Where were you able to track down the software? I’d love to take it for a spin as well!
The Tiffen software has been discounted but I think I saw it on Amazon. Tiffen sold their software business to BorisFX which continue updating it.
You can buy the BorisFX "Optics" software here:
https://borisfx.com/products/optics/?collection=optics&product=optics (no affiliation)
The Tiffen version had a more complete diffusion set with more filter options like "Glimmerglass", "Pearlescent", "Satin", "Smoque" and "Mist". The latter included Mist, Black-Mist, Warm-Mist and Cool-Mist. (Intensities from 1 to 10)
The BorisFX version only has Mist, Black-Mist, Warm-Mist and Cool-Mist (Intensities from 1 to 10), so it still work for what we are trying to do here.
These software filters can get pretty close to what the real filer does but can't quite get the light halation. However, the latter can be done in Photoshop very easily.
Fred Miranda wrote
I'm playing the the Tiffen black Mist diffuser software and it matches the look of your images with the variety of filter strengths but can't replicate the halation on the light pole image. However they offer another called just 'mist' which does create halation. Perhaps a combination of the two will get something similar to a real filter. When I get my 1/4, I will test it out.The Tiffen software has been discounted but I think I saw it on Amazon. Tiffen sold their software business to BorisFX which continue updating it.
You can buy the BorisFX "Optics" software here:
https://borisfx.com/products/optics/?collection=optics&product=optics (no affiliation)
The Tiffen version had a more complete diffusion set with more filter options like "Glimmerglass", "Pearlescent", "Satin", "Smoque" and "Mist". The latter included Mist, Black-Mist, Warm-Mist and Cool-Mist. (Intensities from 1 to 10)
The BorisFX version only has Mist, Black-Mist, Warm-Mist and Cool-Mist (Intensities from 1 to 10), so it still work for what we are trying to do here.
These software filters can get pretty close to what the real filer does but can't quite get the light halation. However, the latter can be done in Photoshop very easily.
May 02, 2021 at 01:50 PM
p.5 #10Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Note to all: I found this while fooling around with a Tiffen Pearlescent 1 filter today. When I was putting on the filter, I noticed a pattern embedded in the glass, and I suspected, it's easily induced with specular highlights.
Not too excited about, though I like the filter beyond this. Just an FYI. On the other hand, I processed it out in about 6 seconds with in LR with a brush. Pretty analogous to onion rings.
unedited
edited
Not too excited about, though I like the filter beyond this. Just an FYI. On the other hand, I processed it out in about 6 seconds with in LR with a brush. Pretty analogous to onion rings.
unedited
edited
May 02, 2021 at 03:18 PM
p.5 #11Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Note to all: I found this while fooling around with a Tiffen Pearlescent 1 filter today. When I was putting on the filter, I noticed a pattern embedded in the glass, and I suspected, it's easily induced with specular highlights.
Not too excited about, though I like the filter beyond this. Just an FYI. On the other hand, I processed it out in about 6 seconds with in LR with a brush. Pretty analogous to onion rings.
Hmmm...
Can you post a scene with and without the Pearlescent filter? I would like run the Pearlescent software version on your image without the filter to see if I can match it.
Note to all: I found this while fooling around with a Tiffen Pearlescent 1 filter today. When I was putting on the filter, I noticed a pattern embedded in the glass, and I suspected, it's easily induced with specular highlights.
Not too excited about, though I like the filter beyond this. Just an FYI. On the other hand, I processed it out in about 6 seconds with in LR with a brush. Pretty analogous to onion rings.
Hmmm...
Can you post a scene with and without the Pearlescent filter? I would like run the Pearlescent software version on your image without the filter to see if I can match it.
May 02, 2021 at 03:33 PM
p.5 #12Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Fred Miranda wrote:
Not too excited about, though I like the filter beyond this. Just an FYI. On the other hand, I processed it out in about 6 seconds with in LR with a brush. Pretty analogous to onion rings.Hmmm...
Can you post a scene with and without the Pearlescent filter? I would like run the Pearlescent software version on your image without the filter to see if I can match it.
Sure
75/1.8 naked
75/1.8 w/ pearlescent 1
nehemiahphoto wrote
Note to all: I found this while fooling around with a Tiffen Pearlescent 1 filter today. When I was putting on the filter, I noticed a pattern embedded in the glass, and I suspected, it's easily induced with specular highlights.Not too excited about, though I like the filter beyond this. Just an FYI. On the other hand, I processed it out in about 6 seconds with in LR with a brush. Pretty analogous to onion rings.
Can you post a scene with and without the Pearlescent filter? I would like run the Pearlescent software version on your image without the filter to see if I can match it.
Sure
75/1.8 naked
75/1.8 w/ pearlescent 1
May 02, 2021 at 04:26 PM
p.5 #13Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
That specular highlight inner structure looks distracting to my eyes. I will try that one but how about a scene with a busy background so we can really see the differences?
May 02, 2021 at 04:44 PM
p.5 #14Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Something like this? And yes, it's very distracting--looks like a waffle.
Also, processing is identical and minimal.
Samy 75/1.8 w/ pearlescent:
Samy 75/1.8 naked:
Also, processing is identical and minimal.
Samy 75/1.8 w/ pearlescent:
Samy 75/1.8 naked:
May 02, 2021 at 05:02 PM
p.5 #15Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Interesting thread. I just bought the new Kase clip in "Fantasy" filter. Hopefully it will soften my GM lenses bokeh a bit when I want to . Will share the result here.
. Will share the result here.May 04, 2021 at 02:46 AM
p.5 #16Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Personally I think the Pearlescent or Glimmerglass looks more interesting than the BPM, but I haven't gotten around to trying them myself.
bjhurley wrote:
One solution, albeit a rather extreme one, is to use a matte box.
This is the correct answer. I find it so weird there aren't more clip-on matteboxes for photography (the Lee100 and the like count as far as the filters themselves [Lee even has an option for tabs that will fit thicker cine filters!], but none of them offer hoods/flags, so it's not nearly as powerful an option). Yeah, you can buy a real mattebox but cine accessories are soooooooooooooo much more expensive and tend to be less handholding/portability-minded.
bjhurley wrote:
One solution, albeit a rather extreme one, is to use a matte box.
This is the correct answer. I find it so weird there aren't more clip-on matteboxes for photography (the Lee100 and the like count as far as the filters themselves [Lee even has an option for tabs that will fit thicker cine filters!], but none of them offer hoods/flags, so it's not nearly as powerful an option). Yeah, you can buy a real mattebox but cine accessories are soooooooooooooo much more expensive and tend to be less handholding/portability-minded.
May 04, 2021 at 03:55 AM
p.5 #17Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Something like this? And yes, it's very distracting--looks like a waffle.
Also, processing is identical and minimal.
Samy 75/1.8 w/ pearlescent:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51154947970_4c0135118e_h.jpg
Samy 75/1.8 naked:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51154629154_92be54017d_h.jpg
Thank you!
Here is what the Tiffen software can do:
Original edited image
Your version using a real pearlescent filter
Tiffen software: pearlescent level 6
Tiffen software: BLACK pearlescent level 6
Tiffen software: Pro-Mist level 6
Something like this? And yes, it's very distracting--looks like a waffle.
Also, processing is identical and minimal.
Samy 75/1.8 w/ pearlescent:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51154947970_4c0135118e_h.jpg
Samy 75/1.8 naked:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51154629154_92be54017d_h.jpg
Thank you!
Here is what the Tiffen software can do:
Original edited image
Your version using a real pearlescent filter
Tiffen software: pearlescent level 6
Tiffen software: BLACK pearlescent level 6
Tiffen software: Pro-Mist level 6
May 04, 2021 at 12:46 PM
p.5 #18Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
I found this on the Q and A section of the Tiffen filter site for BPM filters specifically:
"Stronger filters are needed for longer focal lengths as the diffusion effect decreases with longer focal lengths, however there are no established guidelines."
https://tiffen.com/products/black-pro-mist-filter
This has not been my experience. Longer focal lengths at approximately the same distance and aperture magnify the effect of the BPM filter.
I found this on the Q and A section of the Tiffen filter site for BPM filters specifically:
"Stronger filters are needed for longer focal lengths as the diffusion effect decreases with longer focal lengths, however there are no established guidelines."
https://tiffen.com/products/black-pro-mist-filter
This has not been my experience. Longer focal lengths at approximately the same distance and aperture magnify the effect of the BPM filter.
May 04, 2021 at 08:09 PM
p.5 #19Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Andre Y wrote:
"Stronger filters are needed for longer focal lengths as the diffusion effect decreases with longer focal lengths, however there are no established guidelines."
https://tiffen.com/products/black-pro-mist-filterThis has not been my experience. Longer focal lengths at approximately the same distance and aperture magnify the effect of the BPM filter.
Do you mean if you are shooting a 35mm and 75mm with the same BPM that the photo will appear more affected with the 75mm?
nehemiahphoto wrote
I found this on the Q and A section of the Tiffen filter site for BPM filters specifically:"Stronger filters are needed for longer focal lengths as the diffusion effect decreases with longer focal lengths, however there are no established guidelines."
https://tiffen.com/products/black-pro-mist-filter
Do you mean if you are shooting a 35mm and 75mm with the same BPM that the photo will appear more affected with the 75mm?
May 04, 2021 at 10:15 PM
p.5 #20Diffusion Filters! (or Effect Filters in general)
Interesting! I think the software is pretty cool and useful in its own right but at least in this test, I don’t think it blooms the same way or biases the effect towards the highlights in the same way. It would be awesome to see some software vs hardware samples with a small hard light source like a lamp or streetlight. If I had done a shoot with and without a filter but then retroactively decided to unify the look of the set, the software would be a great starting point IMO. I would need to use some luminosity masks on curves adjustments and Gaussian blur layers in PS to take an honest try at more accurately mimicking the highlight behavior beyond that.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Also, processing is identical and minimal.
Samy 75/1.8 w/ pearlescent:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51154947970_4c0135118e_h.jpg
Samy 75/1.8 naked:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51154629154_92be54017d_h.jpgThank you!
Here is what the Tiffen software can do:
Edited on May 04, 2021 at 10:33 PM · View previous versions
Fred Miranda wrote:
nehemiahphoto wrote
Something like this? And yes, it's very distracting--looks like a waffle.Also, processing is identical and minimal.
Samy 75/1.8 w/ pearlescent:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51154947970_4c0135118e_h.jpg
Samy 75/1.8 naked:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51154629154_92be54017d_h.jpg
Here is what the Tiffen software can do:
Edited on May 04, 2021 at 10:33 PM · View previous versions
May 04, 2021 at 10:15 PM