p.6 #1 · A1 EVF resolution -- theoretical vs actual
ronno wrote:
And thus if you focus continuously while shooting (as many people do with these high fps cameras!), then it's fuzzy the whole time.
The Canon at 6M is not fuzzy, nor inducing moire.
Using my A1 I normally operate at High Frame Rate in Standard Display Quality, and I do focus much of the time. The EVF is not "fuzzy", it presents a high quality 1200x1600 display.
Any sampled image can show moire if the scene has some regular pattern that beats with the sampling, but that's rare and certainly not a regular characteristic of Sony EVF's.
p.6 #3 · A1 EVF resolution -- theoretical vs actual
Holger wrote:
Yesterday when looking through the EVF (with 35GM at f1.4) I could see the resolution drop during the _day_ (quality high, AFC).
However, in the evening indoors when going to higher ISOs, I don't see it. Here the resolution stays high and doesn't drop in AFC even at f1.4.
Just wondered whether you observed something similar in your testing?
Edit:
Just went out and here I can see resolution drops. Going back indoors, rising iso to 1000 and the resolution doesn't drop but stays high. Interesting.
Yep this is happening with me everyday with any lens on my A1ii - quite frankly it sucks. I am not using this camera for rapid moving sports and wildlife so for more patient work it all becomes very obvious in the user experience.
Dec 22, 2024 at 04:51 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #4 · A1 EVF resolution -- theoretical vs actual
Dentinke wrote:
Yep this is happening with me everyday with any lens on my A1ii - quite frankly it sucks. I am not using this camera for rapid moving sports and wildlife so for more patient work it all becomes very obvious in the user experience.
You do understand that Holger's observation would be consistent with dclark's test if the shutter speed he was using was something like 1/250 and he was shooting at ISO 100 outside and ISO 1000 inside. The only discrepancy would be that he didn't notice the brief drop in resolution outside. I think that might be easy to miss sometimes. Again this drop in resolution is just how the camera works and setting the resolution to standard instead of high will prevent it.
p.6 #5 · A1 EVF resolution -- theoretical vs actual
Some people in denial here but it’s obviously a problem (for some of us) when our high speed sports camera’s view finder only looks good when you are *not* focusing.
p.6 #6 · A1 EVF resolution -- theoretical vs actual
Dentinke wrote:
Yep this is happening with me everyday with any lens on my A1ii - quite frankly it sucks. I am not using this camera for rapid moving sports and wildlife so for more patient work it all becomes very obvious in the user experience.
I was shocked to see it in action on the A7R5. It's not really excusable for a flagship IMO and that it's persisting across generations is WILD.
Dec 22, 2024 at 07:03 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #7 · A1 EVF resolution -- theoretical vs actual
ronno wrote:
Some people in denial here but it’s obviously a problem (for some of us) when our high speed sports camera’s view finder only looks good when you are *not* focusing.
And it obviously in not a problem for some of us. For some of us the viewfinder looks very good even when focussing. It isn't denial it is just that some people see it differently than you do. When I set the viewfinder to standard resolution and 120fps, I see a bright, sharp, smooth image that stays the same whether I am focussing or not. When I set the viewfinder to high resolution which locks the fps at 60 fps, I see a little more detail when not focussing and it drops to the same bright, sharp, but slightly less smooth image when focussing. I find the EVF to present an excellent experience in either mode. I prefer the standard resolution 120fps mode when shooting things moving moderately fast or faster and the high resolution 60 fps mode when shooting things that are still. That's my experience and of course YMMV.
p.6 #8 · A1 EVF resolution -- theoretical vs actual
RoamingScott wrote:
I was shocked to see it in action on the A7R5. It's not really excusable for a flagship IMO and that it's persisting across generations is WILD.
Well having a high enough resolution EVF to even show moire comes with some disadvantages
But hey - small price to pay if you want access to the best sensors, best ergonomics and lightest equipment.
However you never know what the next firmware update might deliver...
"oh you got it already, what yesterday, why didn't you say anything ?"
"oh no... my condolences, ah well, chin up there is always 2025... "
"In the meantime you have some nice lenses to play with..." (hopes the 300 f/2.8 is in the bag)
p.6 #9 · A1 EVF resolution -- theoretical vs actual
For me, the issue with "Standard" Display Quality is that it's simply nothing to write home about. Depending on the scene, I can see the resolution is a bit lower than what I'd like to have at that EVF (physical) size (like a bit too large pixel pitch in monitors/screens). That's why I actually like the "Zoomed-out" option (can't see the resolution being too low when the EVF display size is smaller and it's easier to see the whole frame for me).
Now, on "High" Display Quality, the difference is night and day. This really feels to me like an EVF fitting a flagship body .
I was more considerate about this on the classic A1, as it brought a lot other stuff to the table. On A1 II, it really irks me though.
p.6 #10 · A1 EVF resolution -- theoretical vs actual
Steve Spencer wrote:
No it isn't fuzzy to my eye, it is just lower resolution (than the High resolution setting and not lower resolution than the Canon) and as I have said repeatedly I don't see any moire in regular shooting except very rarely. Again don't assume what you see is what other people see.
I'm not assuming anything, just reporting from firsthand experience why the view finder is this $7000 camera is distracting and not a great experience.
And wondering about the decisions to advertise a 10M viewfinder when that is often not the case in use.
Dec 23, 2024 at 10:53 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #11 · A1 EVF resolution -- theoretical vs actual
ronno wrote:
I'm not assuming anything, just reporting from firsthand experience why the view finder is this $7000 camera is distracting and not a great experience.
And wondering about the decisions to advertise a 10M viewfinder when that is often not the case in use.
You are reporting what you are seeing as the way it "is," even when I reported I don't have the same experience. Like in this post you say the view finder "is" distracting when I have said repeatedly it isn't distracting to me and that is my firsthand experience too. Why do you insist your first hand experience is the way it "is," rather than acknowledge that some people don't see it that way? It is that claim about what the view finder "is" that I am calling an assumption.
p.6 #12 · A1 EVF resolution -- theoretical vs actual
Steve Spencer wrote:
Can you explain more what you found then? The chart says that the resolution always drops. Sometimes just briefly if the shutter speed is slow enough and sometimes much longer if the shutter speed is fast enough. Are you finding something different, and if so what? Are you saying that in some cases the resolution doesn't drop and if so are you sure it didn't briefly drop and you just missed it? I think you and dclark are both saying that it always drops when focussing, you are just reporting different circumstances that affect how long it drops, but correct me if I am wrong. I don't doubt that you can both be right. High shutter speeds compared to ISO and the type of light could affect how long it drops, but I don't think anyone is saying it affects whether it drops....Show more →
The momentary drop in resolution when you focus is only in AF-S , in AF-C the resolution drops from HIGH to Standard as soon as you engage focus - so if you hold the shutter half-way or are tracking the lower resolution stays that way until you take the shot . I tried testing different combinations of shutter and ISO and nothing made any difference . The only thing that did make a difference is the lighting conditions in the scene. Daylight seems to cause it to always drop but in other situations with indoor lighting on it can be repeatedly be prevented from dropping resolution - See this video I made to demonstrate:
I kept the camera settings the same in this demo and both lighting levels where similar to not impact the exposure.
Dec 24, 2024 at 06:36 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #13 · A1 EVF resolution -- theoretical vs actual
Dentinke wrote:
The momentary drop in resolution when you focus is only in AF-S , in AF-C the resolution drops from HIGH to Standard as soon as you engage focus - so if you hold the shutter half-way or are tracking the lower resolution stays that way until you take the shot . I tried testing different combinations of shutter and ISO and nothing made any difference . The only thing that did make a difference is the lighting conditions in the scene. Daylight seems to cause it to always drop but in other situations with indoor lighting on it can be repeatedly be prevented from dropping resolution - See this video I made to demonstrate:
I kept the camera settings the same in this demo and both lighting levels where similar to not impact the exposure.
Then what you and dclark both report is that sometimes the resolution just drops from High to Standard for a short period of time and sometimes it drops and stays dropped while focussing. What you are disagreeing on is whether it is ISO and shutter speed (as dclark claims) or lighting conditions (as you claim) that determine whether the drop is for a short period or stays dropped while focussing. You agree about how the camera works, you just disagree about what causes it to work that way.
For me I don't really care about the cause and I can let both of you sleuth that out because I am happy with using the camera in High resolution mode with 60 fps for still and slow moving targets and Standard resolution with 120 fps for fast moving targets. I know that whether it drops momentarily or stays dropped when I am shooting still or slow moving targets that it won't bother or distract me, YMMV.
p.6 #14 · A1 EVF resolution -- theoretical vs actual
Steve Spencer wrote:
Then what you and dclark both report is that sometimes the resolution just drops from High to Standard for a short period of time and sometimes it drops and stays dropped while focussing. What you are disagreeing on is whether it is ISO and shutter speed (as dclark claims) or lighting conditions (as you claim) that determine whether the drop is for a short period or stays dropped while focussing. You agree about how the camera works, you just disagree about what causes it to work that way.
For me I don't really care about the cause and I can let both of you sleuth that out because I am happy with using the camera in High resolution mode with 60 fps for still and slow moving targets and Standard resolution with 120 fps for fast moving targets. I know that whether it drops momentarily or stays dropped when I am shooting still or slow moving targets that it won't bother or distract me, YMMV....Show more →
It's become obvious that many users don't care about the resolution dropping during focus which is why this issue continues from generation to generation. I'll live with it , but in my observations - my A1 was less prone to this than the A1ii - just a fact in my hands.
I live in hope it can be improved and I base this on the fact that at the A1ii briefings Sony claimed the camera would support high-res and high frame rate at the same time. This was either a huge error or it is a planned feature that was not ready in time for launch. See let's see. In the meantime, I am happy to continue investigating with other uses what the culprit is.
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