p.3 #1 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
AZHeaven wrote:
There is an issue period. It's all over the net and on the Facebook groups. I sure as heck fire can say it's a big issue. Since it's, once again out there in pretty big numbers. Sony has down played the A7RIV/200-600 issue. As well as the shutter issue with the A7III. Does Nikon and the Z's have a shutter issue? Canon? Any other mirrorless manufacturers? Not that I've heard. Is there shutter issues with the A9? A7RIII? Nope, none that I've heard of. I'm done discussing this with you.
Better try reading more carefully before getting upset for nothing. You _claim_ this to be a _big_ issue.
And this is where I am hesitant to call it _big_, at this moment in time. If it happens, then surely there is an issue. You could even be right (I never denied that), but citing a Facebook group as proof for it to be a _big_ issue is ridiculous in my opinion. I have no problem acknowledging it to be a big issue if you can come up with some meaningful numbers. Maybe the lawsuit will unequivocally proof it. But your gut feeling is irrelevant. If you are affected, you have every right to be upset. If it is within warranty, you get it repaired for free.
The 200-600 thing has nothing to do with this. As do the other manufacturers. I had the D810, which had LENR issues, the D750 with error and shutter issues. The Canon 1dx had lubrication issues, the R5 overheating issues,... so what? When is an issue a big issue? Is that proof for a _big_ shutter issue? .
Apr 03, 2021 at 10:34 AM
Cudacke18 Offline • [X]
p.3 #2 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
AZHeaven wrote:
There is an issue period. It's all over the net and on the Facebook groups. I sure as heck fire can say it's a big issue. Since it's, once again out there in pretty big numbers. Sony has down played the A7RIV/200-600 issue. As well as the shutter issue with the A7III. Does Nikon and the Z's have a shutter issue? Canon? Any other mirrorless manufacturers? Not that I've heard. Is there shutter issues with the A9? A7RIII? Nope, none that I've heard of. I'm done discussing this with you.
Yea it is a such a big issue that there are still less than 2000 people signed on the petition for literally the best selling full frame camera for the last two years.
p.3 #4 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
AZHeaven wrote:
2K? That's not considered an issue? Good grief.
Percentage wise, it's a grain of sand. Or salt, in many people's cases. Guesstimate 2M sales of the A7 III since launch. 2K is only 1/10 of a percent. Even 10K is still not even 1 percent. Even if there were only 1.5M sales.
If all the serial numbers of the cameras mentioned in the lawsuit line up, then yes, it could be a defective batch, which should be covered free of charge. If not, that's life. That's how camera shutters are. Otherwise, here's prime info for more cameras that need to be recalled via lawsuit:
p.3 #7 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
I feel what people don't understand is that unfortunately a percentage of failures is considered in manufacturing. It really sucks to be a person who has an early failure. I've had tons of things break on me either way earlier than they should, or even in comparison to it not breaking at all for others, but I become an outlier and it's an unfortunate way of life. So now it's up to this lawsuit to prove that more of these are breaking than what's in an acceptable number of failure. A Facebook group amount is unlikely to be that percentage.
p.3 #8 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
BlueBomberTurbo wrote:
Signing a petition doesn't mean your camera broke in the last few days. It just means it happened sometime in the last 3 years...
I didn't say that it did. Just that many or even a majority whom this happened to may not have seen or heard anything about this action and as such have not yet had the opportunity to respond. It's only been a few days.
Apr 04, 2021 at 12:46 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.3 #9 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Beni wrote:
2000 in the few days since the announcement is hardly insignificant.
link to said petition? i must have missed it.
the only thing i found was a change.org petition from two years ago, less than 1400 signatures, signed by a bunch of people who either don't own sony or haven't had a shutter failure... some of the most recent comments, each from a different signatory:
"It took every penny I had at the time to buy my a7iii and I can feel my shutter dragging"
"Sony is a great brand and I don't want to lose confidence in spending my money with them."
"Sony needs to put a recall out on this issue if it wants to stay in business"
"Durability is a must!!"
"I want to buy a Sony a7iii but if it continues with this shutter problem I'll have to buy another camera."
p.3 #10 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
osv2 wrote:
link to said petition? i must have missed it.
the only thing i found was a change.org petition from two years ago, less than 1400 signatures, signed by a bunch of people who either don't own sony or haven't had a shutter failure... some of the most recent comments, each from a different signatory:
"It took every penny I had at the time to buy my a7iii and I can feel my shutter dragging"
"Sony is a great brand and I don't want to lose confidence in spending my money with them."
"Sony needs to put a recall out on this issue if it wants to stay in business"
"Durability is a must!!"
"I want to buy a Sony a7iii but if it continues with this shutter problem I'll have to buy another camera."
My bad, I had assumed that the number shown above was the amount of people who had joined the class action suit. If it's just a petition, yeah, that means nothing.
p.3 #11 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
So.. nearly a year on - any updates on this? I'm thinking about changing by A7Rii for an A7iii - I've looked around and can't see anything other than a lot of noise from this 'lawsuit' by a single person, anti-sony fanboys and a few understandably upset people who have had shutter failures. Shutter failures will happen - they're a very delicate, fast moving precise bit of engineering and some of them will of course fail before the expected lifetime. Social media provides a forum for a small number of people to complain loudly. But I haven't seen any indication that this is happening on a widespread basis, given the number of these cameras that actually sold?
p.3 #12 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
newdom wrote:
So.. nearly a year on - any updates on this? I'm thinking about changing by A7Rii for an A7iii - I've looked around and can't see anything other than a lot of noise from this 'lawsuit' by a single person, anti-sony fanboys and a few understandably upset people who have had shutter failures. Shutter failures will happen - they're a very delicate, fast moving precise bit of engineering and some of them will of course fail before the expected lifetime. Social media provides a forum for a small number of people to complain loudly. But I haven't seen any indication that this is happening on a widespread basis, given the number of these cameras that actually sold?...Show more →
No, it was just fuel for haters. It was never even a class action lawsuit, just a filing to create one.
p.3 #13 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Interesting I shot many many images with the A7III all on mechanical shutter doing the big shows with mine and rentals never had any shutter issues. My bet the rated life will never match the actually rated use. Not a lawsuit I would want to be a part off as there is no guarantees as users are involved, which involves a whole host of other things.
p.3 #14 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Shutter issues is why I would never want my shutter exposed when taking off a lens. If you know what your doing first off, it's fairly easy to avoid sensor dust. Second, I'd rather have dust on my sensor ( which is easy to clean and fairly durable) than on my shutter which is not and is a moving object.
p.3 #15 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
I'm sure there are a7 III owners whose shutters failed. It is an unfortunate but inevitable mechanical point of failure in some percentage of all cameras. How widespread the issue is remains unknown to anyone outside of Sony.
A reliable independent source of such information might be lensrentals or other companies that own large numbers of these cameras. Lensrentals has never been shy about illustrating issues they encounter with products. I have not seen any mention of unusual shutter failures in their blog.
p.3 #16 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Most of the time you only hear from those who've had a problem. When someone doesn't have a problem they tend to not think much about it and life goes on as normal. Yet when they do they try to make their voices heard. It's also not uncommon in the internet age for people to create more than one account to make an issue seem larger that what it really is. This is usually done by people who are upset and feel they have little recourse. You also see the person who joins up, makes one or two posts complaining, and then is never heard from again. I'm not saying it is or isn't an issue. It's just that you can't get an accurate idea of how big of a problem is by reading stuff on the internet.
Then you have the group that join in because they broke their shutter. Maybe dropped their camera or did something else that it wasn't designed for. They are not likely to admit that it was their fault and see joining in as a way to possibly feel better about themselves and get their camera fixed.
Personally I'm in the group of people that if I buy something and it doesn't live up to my expectations I will find a different brand. With camera systems it's a little harder if you have a collection of lenses. But it's not that unusual for someone to jump ship.
Hopefully Sony was able to learn from those who had failures and come up with a better shutter.
p.3 #17 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Dr Al wrote:
Most of the time you only hear from those who've had a problem. When someone doesn't have a problem they tend to not think much about it and life goes on as normal. Yet when they do they try to make their voices heard. It's also not uncommon in the internet age for people to create more than one account to make an issue seem larger that what it really is. This is usually done by people who are upset and feel they have little recourse. You also see the person who joins up, makes one or two posts complaining, and then is never heard from again. I'm not saying it is or isn't an issue. It's just that you can't get an accurate idea of how big of a problem is by reading stuff on the internet.
Then you have the group that join in because they broke their shutter. Maybe dropped their camera or did something else that it wasn't designed for. They are not likely to admit that it was their fault and see joining in as a way to possibly feel better about themselves and get their camera fixed.
Personally I'm in the group of people that if I buy something and it doesn't live up to my expectations I will find a different brand. With camera systems it's a little harder if you have a collection of lenses. But it's not that unusual for someone to jump ship.
Hopefully Sony was able to learn from those who had failures and come up with a better shutter....Show more →
Better shutter would be no shutter at all, I really hope we can transition to shutterless in this generation
p.3 #18 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
knshshnk wrote:
Better shutter would be no shutter at all, I really hope we can transition to shutterless in this generation
I may just be old fashioned but best option to me seems to be a9 or a1 style where you use the electronic shutter almost all the time until you need the mechanical shutter, always nice to have as a backup for banding issues especially at a concert.
Of course if global shutters can become a thing then I don't think it would be necessary but until then I don't see any reason why shutters should be ditched entirely.
Also my a7iii is at ~50,000 clicks, several thousand of which happened at 40 below and its still going strong so there's that.
p.3 #19 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
knshshnk wrote:
Better shutter would be no shutter at all, I really hope we can transition to shutterless in this generation
With the readout speed of the A1 and Z9 being 95% of the way there, if Sony keeps the A9 III at 24 or 33MP, that camera may be the first to be truly usable shutterless. Hard to say without testing, since LED ad signs at sporting venues seem to be the last hurdle, and they're a somewhat niche situation (though not for who those cameras are aimed at).. Someone with better tech understanding (like Jim Kasson) could probably figure out roughly where the readout speed needs to be to truly transition to shutterless.
p.3 #20 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Duowing wrote:
I feel what people don't understand is that unfortunately a percentage of failures is considered in manufacturing. It really sucks to be a person who has an early failure. I've had tons of things break on me either way earlier than they should, or even in comparison to it not breaking at all for others, but I become an outlier and it's an unfortunate way of life. So now it's up to this lawsuit to prove that more of these are breaking than what's in an acceptable number of failure. A Facebook group amount is unlikely to be that percentage....Show more →
Exactly and the A7iii has been the best selling camera for several years in a row, so when it naturally has a higher absolute number of shutter failures.
Let's say that it sold 10x more than some competitor, and it has 10x more failures, then everything is absolutely normal, but on forums or on facebook, people will see "hey that A7iii has 20,000 failures whereas camera X only has 2000, so the A7iii is broken??!".
Also, a lot of people might not realize that this shutter was not made by Sony.
Sony only designed a few shutters, like the one in the A1 (for sure) and in the A7c (I believe).
.