p.2 #1 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
lattesweden wrote:
A7II 5 fps
A7III 10 fps
Sensor readout speed vs AF calculations/s vs shutter open duration, most likely. You see some other brands boasting high fps on some of their cameras, but only in AF-S. AF-C drops that limit down a few fps. The EOS R, for example, had a serious fps cut down (8fps -> 3fps, vs 5D IV's 7fps) when full AF tracking was enabled. But Sony chooses not to do things like that.
Not that eBay is the final word, but there are plenty of items stating the A7 II and III shutters are the same part (3360). Also that the A7R II, III, and A7S II shutters (3379) are all the same. Something interesting to note is that the flex cable connection and mounting points appear to be identical between the two part numbers. If someone's good with DIY, and these two parts are indeed interchangeable, 3379 could be a shutter upgrade for the A7 III. Proven reliability AND 2.5x rated shutter life expectancy.
p.2 #2 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
MAubrey wrote:
Yes, that's an issue of the sensor, memory buffer, and processing pipeline, not the physical shutter itself. The part number is a copal FP shutter part that's used across many cameras.
Aha, I get it. Do you know which other bodys that cary the exact same shutter (part no) as the A7III?
p.2 #3 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
AZHeaven wrote:
Since the A7III was released many have experienced shutter issues. And Sony has not taken it seriously. Just like the A7RIV/200-600 issues. My shutter went after less than 10,000 shots. I don't think it's a money grab. But it's about time someone shook the Sony tree to wake them up. But, Sony is big. So this lawsuit may not go anywhere at all.
What percentage of users is many? How do you know they didn't take it seriously?
We had about 30k actuations and no problem. I am hearing this for the first time. Will be interesting to see how this turns out.
p.2 #4 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
3360 (A7II/III) is not interchangeable with 3379 (A7rII, III).
BlueBomberTurbo wrote:
Not that eBay is the final word, but there are plenty of items stating the A7 II and III shutters are the same part (3360). Also that the A7R II, III, and A7S II shutters (3379) are all the same. Something interesting to note is that the flex cable connection and mounting points appear to be identical between the two part numbers. If someone's good with DIY, and these two parts are indeed interchangeable, 3379 could be a shutter upgrade for the A7 III. Proven reliability AND 2.5x rated shutter life expectancy.
p.2 #5 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Holger wrote:
What percentage of users is many? How do you know they didn't take it seriously?
We had about 30k actuations and no problem. I am hearing this for the first time. Will be interesting to see how this turns out.
Even if it's 2% of total A7III's sold. Sony should know there is an issue. What does it matter the number? It's been reported many times on the Sony A7III Facebook page and other pages. How do I know they don't take it seriously? They haven't done anything that I've seen. The same reason they have ignored the 200-600/A7RIV issue. Is it a rare issue? Probably. But the issue is there.
Not everyone is having shutter issues, like you. Good for you!
p.2 #6 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
The number of failures is important so they know if the failure rate is abnormal. Shutters can and will fail on any camera. If the A7III shutter is failing at a similar rate to other cameras, then I'm not sure what you expect them to do about it.
It's only covered for the warrantee period. If something breaks after that, you are own your own, just like everything else you buy.
If the A7III is failing at significantly higher rate than other cameras, it would indicate a problem that needs to be addressed, but I don't know if that data is available to anyone outside of Sony.
p.2 #7 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
AZHeaven wrote:
Even if it's 2% of total A7III's sold. Sony should know there is an issue. What does it matter the number? It's been reported many times on the Sony A7III Facebook page and other pages. How do I know they don't take it seriously? They haven't done anything that I've seen. The same reason they have ignored the 200-600/A7RIV issue. Is it a rare issue? Probably. But the issue is there.
Not everyone is having shutter issues, like you. Good for you!
If. It makes a big difference if it is 0.002%, 0.02, 0.2 or 2% of cameras, or whether it is systematic or not. The suit will quickly show what is going on.
However, in today's world many things are blown out of proportion and affected people quickly escalate issues, such that it sometimes looks commonplace, but isn't. Social media are contributing to this. It is especially interesting, that of course such a suit was filed in the US. Is this A73 problem a worldwide issue?
I find it rather puzzling, to not have heard about this issue despite reading about Sony in forums on a daily basis, having had the A73, knowing many having it (most common Sony camera when we give workshops). Before this suit indeed gives evidence to errors on Sony's side, I give them the benefit of the doubt.
p.2 #8 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Holger wrote:
If. It makes a big difference if it is 0.002%, 0.02, 0.2 or 2% of cameras, or whether it is systematic or not. The suit will quickly show what is going on.
However, in today's world many things are blown out of proportion and affected people quickly escalate issues, such that it sometimes looks commonplace, but isn't. Social media are contributing to this. It is especially interesting, that of course such a suit was filed in the US. Is this A73 problem a worldwide issue?
I find it rather puzzling, to not have heard about this issue despite reading about Sony in forums on a daily basis, having had the A73, knowing many having it (most common Sony camera when we give workshops). Before this suit indeed gives evidence to errors on Sony's side, I give them the benefit of the doubt....Show more →
If it wasn't for the internet or social media no one would be aware of an issue. I'm confused. I too belong to several Sony Facebook pages. This is not blown out of proportion. And when I was on the Sony A7III Facebook page many have stated that they had issues with the shutter going.
p.2 #9 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
AZHeaven wrote:
If it wasn't for the internet or social media no one would be aware of an issue. I'm confused. I too belong to several Sony Facebook pages. This is not blown out of proportion. And when I was on the Sony A7III Facebook page many have stated that they had issues with the shutter going.
That may well be, however, we don't know how big an issue that is up to now. Social media always brings up two sides of a medal. You can more easily get people with similar interest together. However, often, if you are very vocal you can create the impression of an issue to be widespread and important.
How is the situation here? Is it a well founded claim or exaggerated?
Will be interesting to see what comes out of the law suit.
p.2 #10 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Obviously, Sony didn't come up with a 200,000 rating out of the thin air. They did lab tests under controlled conditions to come up with an average number. Of course, if you sell a million units some of them will fail well before MTBF. Was it 10,000 posts on social media about the problem? I doubt it, but that would be 1% if it was. And if it was a case, then Sony would get thousands of cameras sent for repair under warranty and they would issue a recall as they did with 24-105 lens. Things break. If they break after the warranty expires you pay for it unless you bought the extended warranty. If you don't want to pay you find a shyster lawyer who wants to squeeze large corporation for some kind of settlement.
p.2 #12 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Whatever the truth of the matter is, there have been multiple significant cases where problems were noted with camera equipment and only due to social media pressure and significantly legal action (political action also in one case) was the company forced to deal with the issue in a fair manner. As such I believe the appropriate action in this case is to wait for the data now that the matter has become public.
Taking sides such as 'exaggerated and user error' or 'it's the biggest conspiracy of the century' cannot be justifiable until more data is garnered and that will take time and requires an open mind. Either there will be sufficient cases for this class action suit assuming that each will have to provide a repair quote/receipt to back up their claim (i.e. not anecdotal evidence) or there will not be sufficient cases. Either this will bring a evidence from countries with stronger consumer support where repair could not be denied, or there will not, etc.
p.2 #14 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Holger wrote:
Wow, very unfortunate. Didn't expect that.
In my case the problem with the mechanical shutter was "only" the following:
When using the mechanical shutter, in certain situations a bright semicircle showed through the entire image. Since I don't edit most of my pictures very much, I didn't notice it straight away. After looking for such pictures, I found a picture on my Flickr account where I didn't notice the problem at first: https://www.flickr.com/photos/helmhagen/48240023662/in/dateposted-public/
In the upper left area you can see the light streak through the sky. With other pictures, light streak was so massive that it became clearly noticeable and the pictures could no longer be used. I wrote to the seller and got it repaired without any problems and free of charge. After that the problem was gone.
p.2 #15 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Holger wrote:
If. It makes a big difference if it is 0.002%, 0.02, 0.2 or 2% of cameras, or whether it is systematic or not. The suit will quickly show what is going on.
However, in today's world many things are blown out of proportion and affected people quickly escalate issues, such that it sometimes looks commonplace, but isn't. Social media are contributing to this. It is especially interesting, that of course such a suit was filed in the US. Is this A73 problem a worldwide issue?
I find it rather puzzling, to not have heard about this issue despite reading about Sony in forums on a daily basis, having had the A73, knowing many having it (most common Sony camera when we give workshops). Before this suit indeed gives evidence to errors on Sony's side, I give them the benefit of the doubt....Show more →
Failures are published at least every week in the bigger facebook groups so it is prominent. It’s way worse than I encountered with the D750 and that had a shutter recall issued.
The second issue is that people buy parts because of the specs provided by Sony. I.e. shutter rated to 200,000 clicks. Whilst Sony don’t have to guarantee the shutter for that period, if the average failure is well below that, Sony could find themselves in trouble, particularly if there is a known failure causing it.
Apple was put in a similar position where they were forced to fix keyboards on MacBook’s because of the premature failure of the keyboards.
p.2 #16 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
TORP wrote:
Failures are published at least every week in the bigger facebook groups so it is prominent. It’s way worse than I encountered with the D750 and that had a shutter recall issued.
The second issue is that people buy parts because of the specs provided by Sony. I.e. shutter rated to 200,000 clicks. Whilst Sony don’t have to guarantee the shutter for that period, if the average failure is well below that, Sony could find themselves in trouble, particularly if there is a known failure causing it.
Apple was put in a similar position where they were forced to fix keyboards on MacBook’s because of the premature failure of the keyboards....Show more →
If that is indeed more widespread than thought, it should lead to action from Sony's side.
Quite often companies adjust products secretly over time. Will be interesting to see whether this affects all A73 irrespective of age or only older batches.
p.2 #17 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Holger wrote:
That may well be, however, we don't know how big an issue that is up to now. Social media always brings up two sides of a medal. You can more easily get people with similar interest together. However, often, if you are very vocal you can create the impression of an issue to be widespread and important.
How is the situation here? Is it a well founded claim or exaggerated?
Will be interesting to see what comes out of the law suit.
I'm not getting why you think there isn't an issue. Just because one user doesn't have an issue doesn't mean there isn't an issue. Again. Me. Less than 10K shots and my shutter went. And this issue has been brought up since the A7III was released on the Sony A7III Facebook page many times.
Social media may always bring up two sides to the story, but in that case, some users report an issue, some don't.
p.2 #18 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
AZHeaven wrote:
I'm not getting why you think there isn't an issue. Just because one user doesn't have an issue doesn't mean there isn't an issue. Again. Me. Less than 10K shots and my shutter went. And this issue has been brought up since the A7III was released on the Sony A7III Facebook page many times.
Social media may always bring up two sides to the story, but in that case, some users report an issue, some don't.
I am not saying there isn't anything. I just see it a bit more nuanced.
Let me explain again. What I can't say and you here can't, too, is, how big an issue it is, whether it is systematic or not. You could be right of course, that it is a systematic issue being played down by Sony. It could well be, too, that only very few are affected, e.g. coming from a certain production batch.
Why am I hesitant about it? As I said, I had one, another still at work, know many having one and, giving workshops and having a large followership on Instagram, we are in contact with many many Sony users asking for advice. A big majority uses the accessible and affordable A73.
So I can overview quite a sample size with no issues reported. This is why I wonder about this. Some respectable users here on this board reported issues, so my confidence is eroding, to be honest.
However, this doesn't have anything to do with how Sony should react. In every case I expect Sony to react appropriately. Usually, if it happens within 10k shots warranty should cover the issue, shouldn't it? At least in Europe that will always be the case.
p.2 #19 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Holger wrote:
I am not saying there isn't anything. I just see it a bit more nuanced.
Let me explain again. What I can't say and you here can't, too, is, how big an issue it is, whether it is systematic or not. You could be right of course, that it is a systematic issue being played down by Sony. It could well be, too, that only very few are affected, e.g. coming from a certain production batch.
Why am I hesitant about it? As I said, I had one, another still at work, know many having one and, giving workshops and having a large followership on Instagram, we are in contact with many many Sony users asking for advice. A big majority uses the accessible and affordable A73.
So I can overview quite a sample size with no issues reported. This is why I wonder about this. Some respectable users here on this board reported issues, so my confidence is eroding, to be honest.
However, this doesn't have anything to do with how Sony should react. In every case I expect Sony to react appropriately. Usually, if it happens within 10k shots warranty should cover the issue, shouldn't it? At least in Europe that will always be the case....Show more →
Expecting Sony to react isn't a good expectation. They are a corporate will only act if they are pressured into it, but if they can get away with charging customers for new shutters out of warranty, they will.
Sony has had numerous cartel and antitrust actions against them in the past, most notably for price-fixing on batteries. Ever wondered why that "fix" was introduced for fake batteries that you can't turn off and wasn't mentioned in the firmware update?
Thats why I don't hold a lot of faith in Sony (or most companies) when it comes to "doing the right thing". Thats why users are forced down the path of these types of legal actions.
p.2 #20 · Sony Sued: Class-Action Lawsuit Says a7 III Shutter is Bricking Cameras
Holger wrote:
I am not saying there isn't anything. I just see it a bit more nuanced.
Let me explain again. What I can't say and you here can't, too, is, how big an issue it is, whether it is systematic or not. You could be right of course, that it is a systematic issue being played down by Sony. It could well be, too, that only very few are affected, e.g. coming from a certain production batch.
Why am I hesitant about it? As I said, I had one, another still at work, know many having one and, giving workshops and having a large followership on Instagram, we are in contact with many many Sony users asking for advice. A big majority uses the accessible and affordable A73.
So I can overview quite a sample size with no issues reported. This is why I wonder about this. Some respectable users here on this board reported issues, so my confidence is eroding, to be honest.
However, this doesn't have anything to do with how Sony should react. In every case I expect Sony to react appropriately. Usually, if it happens within 10k shots warranty should cover the issue, shouldn't it? At least in Europe that will always be the case....Show more →
There is an issue period. It's all over the net and on the Facebook groups. I sure as heck fire can say it's a big issue. Since it's, once again out there in pretty big numbers. Sony has down played the A7RIV/200-600 issue. As well as the shutter issue with the A7III. Does Nikon and the Z's have a shutter issue? Canon? Any other mirrorless manufacturers? Not that I've heard. Is there shutter issues with the A9? A7RIII? Nope, none that I've heard of. I'm done discussing this with you.
