p.2 #1 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
arbitrage wrote:
I'm sure some day my 100-500 will be added to my ongoing list of Canon 100-XXX lenses that have needed IS replacements. Both my 100-400 and 100-400II had them replaced and those ones at least parked
I have three 100-400 and two 100-400 II lenses and never was there an IS failure.
What are you doing with those lenses?
p.2 #3 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
EB-1 wrote:
I have three 100-400 and two 100-400 II lenses and never was there an IS failure.
What are you doing with those lenses?
EBH
Dropping them onto concrete...at least for the 100-400II. It rolled off my passenger seat down onto the floor when I opened the door
I'm not sure what caused the 100-400's unit to go...it came on slowly and was hard to diagnose but in the end Canon replaced IS unit on that one also.
p.2 #4 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
Let me clarify a bit.
The lenses with cracked IS glass is alarming to us, we've never seen that before. But it most definitely is a shipping thing, in every case the lens was fine when it left and damaged when arrived. None have ever failed while being used or carried around by a photographer.
Many of you know how we pack: padded, then in a soft case, then padded in a Pelican case. We have lenses that have literally been run over by the delivery truck survive just fine. BUT all that packing doesn't keep internal components from being jarred when the box is dropped 3 or 4 feet. That happens with every shipment I think.
Why do we see it and Canon doesn't? Well, first, Canon ships lenses by the pallet full, not in an individual box. I'm pretty sure they don't drop pallet fulls of lenses much. Second, we ship these constantly round trip. We've got a LOT of these and all have made at least 8 or 9 round trips. So think of it as 4 fractures out of 1,000 shipments. So let's say B&H shipped 1,000 lenses out after taking them off the pallets, they might get a few complaints, might not think twice about it cause stuff happens, might think they arrived that way. I can't say.
The question is why this lens and not a lot of other lenses with non-locking IS that we've been shipping for years? I don't know yet, I'm scheduled to take some apart over the next few days, maybe that will give some ideas. Just looking form the outside I can't be certain what might be moving. It's also very possible that some had a flaw that others don't, maybe an early production run thing.
p.2 #5 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
Thanks for the clarification.
Of course one thing that lens rental companies can never be 100% sure about is the honesty of the renters when they claim the lens was not damaged before they ship it back the the rental company.
Could also be Canon has cut some quality corners in building this lens.
p.2 #6 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
arbitrage wrote:
I'm sure some day my 100-500 will be added to my ongoing list of Canon 100-XXX lenses that have needed IS replacements. Both my 100-400 and 100-400II had them replaced and those ones at least parked
I assume you get your repairs done via CPS Canada?
p.2 #7 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
Zenon Char wrote:
I assume you get your repairs done via CPS Canada?
Yes. I was a CPS Gold member for all my Canon years and just rejoined as CPS Platinum as I want to do a few test drives of lenses which is a nice perk of the Platinum level. However, the biggest perk of all, the Canadian CPS discount, is no longer so that sort of sucks. I saved $1000s back in the day with that CPS discount.
p.2 #8 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
arbitrage wrote:
Yes. I was a CPS Gold member for all my Canon years and just rejoined as CPS Platinum as I want to do a few test drives of lenses which is a nice perk of the Platinum level. However, the biggest perk of all, the Canadian CPS discount, is no longer so that sort of sucks. I saved $1000s back in the day with that CPS discount.
I joined to get $1000 off the 1DX II but never pushed the buy button. I hovered over it several times.
p.2 #9 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
RCicala wrote:
Let me clarify a bit.
The lenses with cracked IS glass is alarming to us, we've never seen that before. But it most definitely is a shipping thing, in every case the lens was fine when it left and damaged when arrived. None have ever failed while being used or carried around by a photographer.
Many of you know how we pack: padded, then in a soft case, then padded in a Pelican case. We have lenses that have literally been run over by the delivery truck survive just fine. BUT all that packing doesn't keep internal components from being jarred when the box is dropped 3 or 4 feet. That happens with every shipment I think.
Why do we see it and Canon doesn't? Well, first, Canon ships lenses by the pallet full, not in an individual box. I'm pretty sure they don't drop pallet fulls of lenses much. Second, we ship these constantly round trip. We've got a LOT of these and all have made at least 8 or 9 round trips. So think of it as 4 fractures out of 1,000 shipments. So let's say B&H shipped 1,000 lenses out after taking them off the pallets, they might get a few complaints, might not think twice about it cause stuff happens, might think they arrived that way. I can't say.
The question is why this lens and not a lot of other lenses with non-locking IS that we've been shipping for years? I don't know yet, I'm scheduled to take some apart over the next few days, maybe that will give some ideas. Just looking form the outside I can't be certain what might be moving. It's also very possible that some had a flaw that others don't, maybe an early production run thing. ...Show more →
That linked article describes how to remove EF lenses so that the IS unit parks in the lens and doesn’t rattle around. What we are discussing in this thread is quite different: the IS unit in RF lenses does not park on removal of the lens and you can’t stop it rattling around. It’s that difference that is worrying some people.
It's a new feature, described very recently by Canon:
"Other design innovations were made possible by the technical advantages of the RF mount. "The IS lock mechanism was removed to make the lens lighter," says Development Leader and Mechanical Design specialist Toshihiro Okuda. "On EF mount lenses, a lock ring is required to keep the heavy IS lens group in place when not receiving power. With an RF mount, however, the lens always receives power while it is attached to the camera, eliminating the need for a mechanical lock."" https://www.canon.co.uk/pro/stories/rf-70-200mm-f2-8l-is-usm-lens-developers-interview/
Unfortunately, that report is not fully correct, the RF lens does not receive power when it is attached to the R camera when it goes into sleep or is turned off - the IS flaps around then as well.
p.2 #11 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
RCicala wrote:
Why do we see it and Canon doesn't? Well, first, Canon ships lenses by the pallet full, not in an individual box. I'm pretty sure they don't drop pallet fulls of lenses much. Second, we ship these constantly round trip. We've got a LOT of these and all have made at least 8 or 9 round trips. So think of it as 4 fractures out of 1,000 shipments. So let's say B&H shipped 1,000 lenses out after taking them off the pallets, they might get a few complaints, might not think twice about it cause stuff happens, might think they arrived that way. I can't say. ...Show more →
Awesome reply, Roger. I'm a big fan of your approach, and can't wait until you do a 100-500 takedown.
p.2 #12 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
RCicala wrote:
Let me clarify a bit.
The lenses with cracked IS glass is alarming to us, we've never seen that before. But it most definitely is a shipping thing, in every case the lens was fine when it left and damaged when arrived. None have ever failed while being used or carried around by a photographer.
Many of you know how we pack: padded, then in a soft case, then padded in a Pelican case. We have lenses that have literally been run over by the delivery truck survive just fine. BUT all that packing doesn't keep internal components from being jarred when the box is dropped 3 or 4 feet. That happens with every shipment I think.
Why do we see it and Canon doesn't? Well, first, Canon ships lenses by the pallet full, not in an individual box. I'm pretty sure they don't drop pallet fulls of lenses much. Second, we ship these constantly round trip. We've got a LOT of these and all have made at least 8 or 9 round trips. So think of it as 4 fractures out of 1,000 shipments. So let's say B&H shipped 1,000 lenses out after taking them off the pallets, they might get a few complaints, might not think twice about it cause stuff happens, might think they arrived that way. I can't say.
The question is why this lens and not a lot of other lenses with non-locking IS that we've been shipping for years? I don't know yet, I'm scheduled to take some apart over the next few days, maybe that will give some ideas. Just looking form the outside I can't be certain what might be moving. It's also very possible that some had a flaw that others don't, maybe an early production run thing. ...Show more →
Great info and insight as always Roger. I don't own this lens but for those that do, could you describe what this cracked IS lens looks like? Are they cracked all the way across the center and very obvious or is it off to the side/edge where it may not be easily noticed or affect the image if someone is not looking closely?
Will you be using one of these damaged lenses for your teardown or do those get sent back to Canon for evaluation/repair?
p.2 #13 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
dcisive wrote:
Before you all get your undies in a bunch, Roger responded to my question about this issue as well and it would appear their FedX guys are rather rough on shipped gear in the first place. I for one am rather gentle on my gear so I'm not losing sleep over all this stuff. It's a superb sharp and well built lens. Here was his response:
No way to park it that I know of. We're going to do some disassembly tomorrow and Wednesday, see if we find anything out.
All of ours happened during FedEx shipping and that's routinely going to get dropped 2-4 feet at various times, so I think a much harsher ride than in the back of your car. We used to put accelerometers in packages and 2-3 Gs was not uncommon....Show more →
The question I have:
Can "this" anomaly be easily detected by a "user", or is it a hair-line crack that doesn't initially effect operation, and can only be observed by disassembly of the lens?
p.2 #14 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
RCicala wrote:
Let me clarify a bit.
The lenses with cracked IS glass is alarming to us, we've never seen that before. But it most definitely is a shipping thing, in every case the lens was fine when it left and damaged when arrived. None have ever failed while being used or carried around by a photographer.
Many of you know how we pack: padded, then in a soft case, then padded in a Pelican case. We have lenses that have literally been run over by the delivery truck survive just fine. BUT all that packing doesn't keep internal components from being jarred when the box is dropped 3 or 4 feet. That happens with every shipment I think.
Why do we see it and Canon doesn't? Well, first, Canon ships lenses by the pallet full, not in an individual box. I'm pretty sure they don't drop pallet fulls of lenses much. Second, we ship these constantly round trip. We've got a LOT of these and all have made at least 8 or 9 round trips. So think of it as 4 fractures out of 1,000 shipments. So let's say B&H shipped 1,000 lenses out after taking them off the pallets, they might get a few complaints, might not think twice about it cause stuff happens, might think they arrived that way. I can't say.
The question is why this lens and not a lot of other lenses with non-locking IS that we've been shipping for years? I don't know yet, I'm scheduled to take some apart over the next few days, maybe that will give some ideas. Just looking form the outside I can't be certain what might be moving. It's also very possible that some had a flaw that others don't, maybe an early production run thing. ...Show more →
I surely hope that LensRentals decides to use extra padding in future 100-500 shipments.
p.2 #15 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
RCicala wrote:
Let me clarify a bit.
The lenses with cracked IS glass is alarming to us, we've never seen that before. But it most definitely is a shipping thing, in every case the lens was fine when it left and damaged when arrived. None have ever failed while being used or carried around by a photographer.
Many of you know how we pack: padded, then in a soft case, then padded in a Pelican case. We have lenses that have literally been run over by the delivery truck survive just fine. BUT all that packing doesn't keep internal components from being jarred when the box is dropped 3 or 4 feet. That happens with every shipment I think.
Why do we see it and Canon doesn't? Well, first, Canon ships lenses by the pallet full, not in an individual box. I'm pretty sure they don't drop pallet fulls of lenses much. Second, we ship these constantly round trip. We've got a LOT of these and all have made at least 8 or 9 round trips. So think of it as 4 fractures out of 1,000 shipments. So let's say B&H shipped 1,000 lenses out after taking them off the pallets, they might get a few complaints, might not think twice about it cause stuff happens, might think they arrived that way. I can't say.
The question is why this lens and not a lot of other lenses with non-locking IS that we've been shipping for years? I don't know yet, I'm scheduled to take some apart over the next few days, maybe that will give some ideas. Just looking form the outside I can't be certain what might be moving. It's also very possible that some had a flaw that others don't, maybe an early production run thing. ...Show more →
Thanks for all the info you've provide here and on DPR forum.
Did the cracks happen shipping from you to the customer and then the customer noticed upon opening the package and contact you? Or did you notice the cracks upon return from the customer? What sort of affect does the crack have..ie how does one notice a crack has happened? Has Canon said anything to you about this? I assume you sent the cracked lenses to Canon for repair or did you order the parts and do the repair yourself?
Sorry for all the questions, just wanted to be clear about what is happening and what I can look out for with my own lens.
p.2 #17 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
When I first got my RF 70-200, I noticed the element group inside moving around quite a lot with only minor movement. It's quite easy to see that if someone shakes the lens really hard, something inside is definitely going to break. Haven't looked into the 100-500 yet to see what's up there, but I'm assuming it's the same deal.
This may also affect long-term reliability and IS unit alignment when carried roughly, for example, difficult hikes with repetitive jarring movements.
p.2 #19 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
arbitrage wrote:
Thanks for all the info you've provide here and on DPR forum.
Did the cracks happen shipping from you to the customer and then the customer noticed upon opening the package and contact you? Or did you notice the cracks upon return from the customer? What sort of affect does the crack have..ie how does one notice a crack has happened? Has Canon said anything to you about this? I assume you sent the cracked lenses to Canon for repair or did you order the parts and do the repair yourself?
Sorry for all the questions, just wanted to be clear about what is happening and what I can look out for with my own lens....Show more →
Yes, both ways. It's not a subtle thing. You wouldn't miss it.
But let's keep in perspective:
It only happened during shipping, and it's rare even then.
Until we take a couple apart we won't know exactly which element cracked, and why. Might not even know after we take them apart. But let's not rush to judgement.
p.2 #20 · IS unit of RF 100-500mm not parking - a mechanical weakness?
arbitrage wrote:
They will need to start shipping them attached to a powered on R5/R6...
I had thought of a Kickstarter for a company to produce powered rear lens caps.
