rattymouse wrote:
Leica could outsource production of a new film entirely. A new camera, at a lower price, would not in any way compete with their standard fare. This would be an attempt to grow their business.
Bit voodoo the whole luxury market but here's a thought. Would you rather sell 10 cameras for £4000 and a £1000 profit each or 100 £2000 cameras for £100 profit? Just beware of the fact that people paying £4000 for a camera don't like the same badge on £1000 bits of plastic and suddenly you're in the £2000 camera business where Canon/Nikon/Sony will eat you for breakfast.
realVivek wrote:
I spotted this a few hours ago. Film is mostly used for creative purposes that does not need a rangefinder, or a meter or even a proper lens. Kodak Folder from year 1919.
That is a very broad statement. You see one guy with a camera like that and come to the assumption that film is mostly used for purposes that does not need a rangefinder, meter or proper lens?
That camera does have a proper lens. It does have a way of focusing. And metering can be Sunny F16, or with a camera app or external meter.
Most of the film cameras I see here are SLRs. Almost no film rangefinders. I have even seen one of the digital Leica RF with no LCD or EVF. This has been my observation in the little town I live in, yes.
panos.v wrote:
Bit voodoo the whole luxury market but here's a thought. Would you rather sell 10 cameras for £4000 and a £1000 profit each or 100 £2000 cameras for £100 profit? Just beware of the fact that people paying £4000 for a camera don't like the same badge on £1000 bits of plastic and suddenly you're in the £2000 camera business where Canon/Nikon/Sony will eat you for breakfast.
You forget that we are talking about film cameras.
Canon/Nikon/Sony do not make film cameras.
But I see your point. Leica is selling 'all it can make' at $5200 per camera, so why would they introduce a cheaper one?
Unless the profit margin is much greater with this new camera.
panos.v wrote:
Bit voodoo the whole luxury market but here's a thought. Would you rather sell 10 cameras for £4000 and a £1000 profit each or 100 £2000 cameras for £100 profit? Just beware of the fact that people paying £4000 for a camera don't like the same badge on £1000 bits of plastic and suddenly you're in the £2000 camera business where Canon/Nikon/Sony will eat you for breakfast.
Very true. You can already tell from some of the comments here that some - for whatever reason - try exactly to counteract on every post where cheaper prices are suggested with valid reasons. There is a big fear that Leica would slip from the luxury reputation - either because people are so vested in expensive gear or they are associated with Leica one way or the other. I expected this when posting this topic, too.
Sinasina wrote:
Leica should do what Rolex did with the "Tudor" brand, making cheaper rangefinders under the new brand, avoiding Leica Logos & red dots.
Again, how would such rebranded camera be competitive with used Leica M cameras between $1-2K? Then Leica can really only go for quantity sales for a much cheaper per camera price - and likely Leica is not up for this.
retrofocus wrote:
Very true. You can already tell from some of the comments here that some - for whatever reason - try exactly to counteract on every post where cheaper prices are suggested with valid reasons. There is a big fear that Leica would slip from the luxury reputation - either because people are so vested in expensive gear or they are associated with Leica one way or the other. I expected this when posting this topic, too.
If you're referring to me, you've misread me by a long shot. My point is simply that in 100 years Leica has never concerned itself with competing with the used market, I don't see that happening now.
helimat wrote:
If you're referring to me, you've misread me by a long shot. My point is simply that in 100 years Leica has never concerned itself with competing with the used market, I don't see that happening now.
Not referring to you - that I responded to you should tell you that I rather appreciated your POV even it is from a different angle. At this point all is speculation anyway - your opinion in this aspect might be as good as mine.
retrofocus wrote:
Not referring to you - that I responded to you should tell you that I rather appreciated your POV even it is from a different angle. At this point all is speculation anyway - your opinion in this aspect might be as good as mine.
Ya know, over the past year many times I have run into young people shooting film. Four times in conversation they mentioned that their dream camera is an M6. Not an MP (new or not), but the out of production M6.
I'm sure this is driven in part by bloggers, youtubers etc. But it is interesting because they don't want the MP which is better and available new right now. They want an out of production camera.
How do you market a new camera to those people? They already are set on getting the old, cool, trendy and out of production one. They don't want a new one, unless perhaps it is called M6.2 or M6n or even M6!
panos.v wrote:
Bit voodoo the whole luxury market but here's a thought. Would you rather sell 10 cameras for £4000 and a £1000 profit each or 100 £2000 cameras for £100 profit? Just beware of the fact that people paying £4000 for a camera don't like the same badge on £1000 bits of plastic and suddenly you're in the £2000 camera business where Canon/Nikon/Sony will eat you for breakfast.
Canon/Nikon/Sony don't make film cameras. the market is wide open for Leica.
Desmolicious wrote:
Who would build their new film camera? Fuji? Cosina (who I think have pulled the plug on all their film camera production)? Epson? Panasonic?
There are thousands of job shops all over Asia that could do this.
Desmolicious wrote:
You forget that we are talking about film cameras.
Canon/Nikon/Sony do not make film cameras.
But I see your point. Leica is selling 'all it can make' at $5200 per camera, so why would they introduce a cheaper one?
Unless the profit margin is much greater with this new camera.
Leica hardly makes any film cameras. Thus their revenue and profits are severely limited. And most businesses want to grow. Leica's appeal today is very limited, one dimensional even. Making something more in line that a middle class consumer can aspire to would vastly grow their business. And most likely, Leica wont even make the new camera. They will outsource it. Heck Fujifilm didnt make the last bunch of cameras they offered. The GF670, GF670W, Klasse S, Klasse W, Nautra cameras were all made by Cosina.
rattymouse wrote:
Leica hardly makes any film cameras. Thus their revenue and profits are severely limited.
Are you really telling us than in 2021 the revenue and profits are in film cameras?
rattymouse wrote:
Leica's appeal today is very limited, one dimensional even.
Did you know that Leica is doing quite well in a difficult market?
rattymouse wrote
Making something more in line that a middle class consumer can aspire to would vastly grow their business.
So after close to a century, they should target a lower profit market, at a time where the volumes are shrinking and try to compete directly with the japanese manufacturers and the smartphones?
Did you at least even talked to a camera reseller in the last decade? Or read what Stefan Daniel said in interviews?
So after close to a century, they should target a lower profit market, at a time where the volumes are shrinking and try to compete directly with the japanese manufacturers and the smartphones?
No Japanese maker produces film cameras anymore so there is no competition at all.
rattymouse wrote:
No Japanese maker produces film cameras anymore so there is no competition at all.
Sorry but when you talked about "middle class consumer", I could not imagine you were still talking about film. In which world will the "middle class consumer" be shooting film?
Should car makers convert to horse carriage ? Should Netflix go back to renting DVDs?
pmeheut wrote:
Sorry but when you talked about "middle class consumer", I could not imagine you were still talking about film. In which world will the "middle class consumer" be shooting film?
Should car makers convert to horse carriage ? Should Netflix go back to renting DVDs?
Put the bottle down, you're embarrassing yourself.
Desmolicious wrote:
How do you market a new camera to those people? They already are set on getting the old, cool, trendy and out of production one. They don't want a new one, unless perhaps it is called M6.2 or M6n or even M6!
