p.12 #1 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
I think this is not really a competition VM might have at least good if not better than Leica one if we trust both MTF.
However, for people can afford Leica one, they won’t miss VM. For many Leica rangefinder users, using OEM M glass is part of it. I don’t get it before but now I do. I guess that why Leica can come away charge so much for their glasses.
I didn’t calculate, but eye ball the number, If you consider volume, we might talk about 1:2 ratio. Size or ergo is one of most important part of rangefinder shooting, or I should say Leica M rangefinder shooting. The enjoyment is hard to explain but only when you pop a 50cron APO, 35 cron V1 or lux any version, 28 Elmerit or any version than latest lux on it, enjoying them a while, you will understand.
If there is still a Leica product anywhere close to justifying their asking price, is M and M only.
philip_pj wrote:
Cosina puts this one up against the APO-Summicron-M 50/2. Here is how they stack up in basic dimensions:
p.12 #2 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
i like the 28 Lux, despite its size. I'm not sure I'd enjoy the larger TTA/7A 28/1.4 quite as much. I completely agree, size and ergos are significant factors in the enjoyment of rangefinder shooting. I stick by my opinion that Cosina muffed the design of their APO duo, in this respect.
p.12 #3 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
rscheffler wrote:
i like the 28 Lux, despite its size. I'm not sure I'd enjoy the larger TTA/7A 28/1.4 quite as much. I completely agree, size and ergos are significant factors in the enjoyment of rangefinder shooting. I stick by my opinion that Cosina muffed the design of their APO duo, in this respect.
That is why my first reaction was using them on SL2. However, they both offer incredible value with hard to match performance even for Leica standard.
I know the next 35 cron APO will be 8K+ ragion. So if I want APO performance, this one might do in term of IQ. In a long run, I still want a leica for M.
I think Leica should keep size as their priority for future lens, IQ seems no longer the selling point for native Leica M glasses TBH. I hope leica understand that when chasing performance, especially for M.
p.12 #4 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
zhangyue wrote:
I think this is not really a competition VM might have at least good if not better than Leica one if we trust both MTF.
However, for people can afford Leica one, they won’t miss VM. For many Leica rangefinder users, using OEM M glass is part of it. I don’t get it before but now I do. I guess that why Leica can come away charge so much for their glasses.
I didn’t calculate, but eye ball the number, If you consider volume, we might talk about 1:2 ratio. Size or ergo is one of most important part of rangefinder shooting, or I should say Leica M rangefinder shooting. The enjoyment is hard to explain but only when you pop a 50cron APO, 35 cron V1 or lux any version, 28 Elmerit or any version than latest lux on it, enjoying them a while, you will understand.
If there is still a Leica product anywhere close to justifying their asking price, is M and M only.
Michael, I did calculate and your estimate of 1:2 is way off. The volume of the APO-Summicron-M is about 104cc while that of the APO-Lanthar VM is about 129cc, meaning that the ratio is 1:1.24. In other words the CV lens is 24/% bigger in terms of volume, not 100% bigger.
I understand the point you’re making about the pleasure of using OEM Leica lenses. I paid nearly 20% more to get a Black Chrome Lux 50 ASPH—partly because of its vintage styling but mainly to avoid having a focusing tab—and the added enjoyment you describe in using such lenses is indeed real, if difficult to describe. But Cosina Voigtlander have definitely lifted their production standards with recent releases (paying particular attention to the quality of the helicoids). If as you suggest, the CV 50 APO is “at least as good if not better” than the Leica 50 APO, the choice comes down to a tradeoff between a modest increase in size and the intangible pleasure of using an OEM lens. Is that worth paying nearly eight times as much? Leica believes and plenty of Leica users agree that indeed it is.
p.12 #5 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
Every time you buy one widget over another, it's sales preference a.k.a. market competition.
The intangibles of M lens ownership grow significantly more expensive and more onerous when an equivalent or superior product enters the fray. The 2012 50/2 APO M from Leica is now a dated product in technical terms, as indicated by the SL corporate redirection into their projected future.
The VM pair will assist in revitalising the M mount's viability for more mainstream users. It's an unalloyed positive development that will broaden its appeal, introduce more serious photographers into the fold and provide new age optics at exceptional price levels.
Absent bottomless pockets, the ownership profile will adjust accordingly.
p.12 #6 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
Yes, you are right. I should have calculated it before posting. I was on phone outside.
I might get the 35mm one for both M and SL shooting. as you mentioned the price difference is huge to consider. However, the price is really set by demand and supply and business model. You either buy it or not. We can all laugh each other’s decision at the same time Leica is counting their money
I almost decided that will stick with Leica OEM but Voigtlander make it difficult TBH. I do enjoy both 50lux and 50cron APO and have no will to change but may get some from VC for travel and adapt to other system. I sold my first 50APO M and really miss it and bought a brand new silver one later and never look back. So it is 35lux latest version and pre-ASPH even I know the rendering is not the best but just really enjoy using them. It is almost like a cultural thing for M shooting. You want be within family.
It make no sense to buy OEM Leica for many but do for ones understand this. I didn’t but now I do.
I love VC up their game and bring real value and competition for M. We all benefit from so that Leica either go down price or size and have to think hard before next revision
And Leica M stuff are good in a sense that they are never dated even with new version (usually much more expensive than old one and offer different charming) and keep their value relative well especially if you look it in a long run.
genji wrote:
Michael, I did calculate and your estimate of 1:2 is way off. The volume of the APO-Summicron-M is about 104cc while that of the APO-Lanthar VM is about 129cc, meaning that the ratio is 1:1.24. In other words the CV lens is 24/% bigger in terms of volume, not 100% bigger.
I understand the point you’re making about the pleasure of using OEM Leica lenses. I paid nearly 20% more to get a Black Chrome Lux 50 ASPH—partly because of its vintage styling but mainly to avoid having a focusing tab—and the added enjoyment you describe in using such lenses is indeed real, if difficult to describe. But Cosina Voigtlander have definitely lifted their production standards with recent releases (paying particular attention to the quality of the helicoids). If as you suggest, the CV 50 APO is “at least as good if not better” than the Leica 50 APO, the choice comes down to a tradeoff between a modest increase in size and the intangible pleasure of using an OEM lens. Is that worth paying nearly eight times as much? Leica believes and plenty of Leica users agree that indeed it is....Show more →
p.12 #7 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
Philip, your analysis make a lot sense technical wise until you hold 50apo M and 50apo SL hand by hand and shooting them side by side, you will realize how different they are.
I only say this to share joy than defend purchase which I really have no willing if you know me. M stuff are special.
philip_pj wrote:
Every time you buy one widget over another, it's sales preference a.k.a. market competition.
The intangibles of M lens ownership grow significantly more expensive and more onerous when an equivalent or superior product enters the fray. The 2012 50/2 APO M from Leica is now a dated product in technical terms, as indicated by the SL corporate redirection into their projected future.
The VM pair will assist in revitalising the M mount's viability for more mainstream users. It's an unalloyed positive development that will broaden its appeal, introduce more serious photographers into the fold and provide new age optics at exceptional price levels.
Absent bottomless pockets, the ownership profile will adjust accordingly....Show more →
p.12 #8 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
philip_pj wrote:
Every time you buy one widget over another, it's sales preference a.k.a. market competition.
The intangibles of M lens ownership grow significantly more expensive and more onerous when an equivalent or superior product enters the fray. The 2012 50/2 APO M from Leica is now a dated product in technical terms, as indicated by the SL corporate redirection into their projected future.
The VM pair will assist in revitalising the M mount's viability for more mainstream users. It's an unalloyed positive development that will broaden its appeal, introduce more serious photographers into the fold and provide new age optics at exceptional price levels.
Absent bottomless pockets, the ownership profile will adjust accordingly....Show more →
I wonder how many of the VM APOs will end up on M systems vs. other-than-Sony mirrorless systems? There will be some performance degradation on those systems compared to M, due to sensor stack thickness, but might still be compelling enough.
p.12 #9 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
I would think that Leica is pleased with the lenses that Voigtlander makes for the M system. It introduces users to their rangefinder and many will believe they should trade up to Leica, whether true or not. During Apple's lean years, it was Microsoft that kept them alive by providing their programs, like Office, for the Apple OS.
Joel
p.12 #10 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
The VMs are the only choice for some longer FFD mounts, like Canon and Panasonic. Nikonistas can use the very good Voigtlander adapter for the Z mount, to use the E version. Steve Spencer here has the info on that usage pathway. I believe Cosina also market an adapter for Fuji users. At/longer than 50mm is supposedly not bad adapted from M mount. Fred always covers this aspect of it in his M lens reviews.
p.12 #12 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
hologon wrote:
Picked up the VM version to use on my A7riii from Adorama.
The top and corners were ridiculously bad -- like worse than my MC Minolta 50/1.7.
Suspected decentered or tilted element(s); exchanged but they are currently on back order. Will update when I get a replacement.
I strongly doubt another copy of the VM lens will be any better on an A7RIII, given that there’s a specific E-mount version of the APO-Lanthar 50/2 for Sony bodies.
p.12 #14 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
genji wrote:
I strongly doubt another copy of the VM lens will be any better on an A7RIII, given that there’s a specific E-mount version of the APO-Lanthar 50/2 for Sony bodies.
Yeah, I was hoping I could use the VM version on the Techart and it would just be a little softer.
This one had an off-center vignette of > 2.5 stops in the corner, weighted to the top, and corners that never got sharp at infinity, no matter what the focal point.
The off-center vignette was the oddest thing. Never seen that before.
p.12 #15 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
Impressed with the CV 50 APO on the M10-R – reminds me of what I get with the GFX+GF lenses – I would say higher IQ than the GF 63 and about equal with the GF 110 (for infinity landscape).
Ignore the Leica lens in the EXIF – I was using a Leica lens profile in-camera so I would see less vignetting (helps me with exposure). Aperture is also the camera's guesstimate – I was probably at f/5.6.
p.12 #16 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
Wondering if anyone else has experienced or has insight into what may be happening with the rings/circle in this photo. It was taken this evening at sunset with a sony a7riv and the Voigtlander APO 50mm F/2.
I have some other examples but this photo stands out. When shot directly into the sun it is not an issue but when shooting sideways to the sun (if that makes sense) these rings often appear but not always. I was facing south with this shot and took another facing north and the photograph when facing north did not have these rings.
p.12 #17 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
I assume this is the E mount CV 50/2 APO and not the VM mount version? If so, it's not really the lens per se. Sony seems to bake in some shading correction even when it is turned off in camera (I assume you have shading correction turned off?) Pretty sure that's what you're seeing in your shot...
lakatua wrote:
Wondering if anyone else has experienced or has insight into what may be happening with the rings/circle in this photo. It was taken this evening at sunset with a sony a7riv and the Voigtlander APO 50mm F/2.
I have some other examples but this photo stands out. When shot directly into the sun it is not an issue but when shooting sideways to the sun (if that makes sense) these rings often appear but not always. I was facing south with this shot and took another facing north and the photograph when facing north did not have these rings.
p.12 #18 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
lakatua wrote:
Wondering if anyone else has experienced or has insight into what may be happening with the rings/circle in this photo. It was taken this evening at sunset with a sony a7riv and the Voigtlander APO 50mm F/2.
I have some other examples but this photo stands out. When shot directly into the sun it is not an issue but when shooting sideways to the sun (if that makes sense) these rings often appear but not always. I was facing south with this shot and took another facing north and the photograph when facing north did not have these rings.
p.12 #19 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
Thanks Tim - I swear I was searching the web but I never stumbled upon the various discussions on DP.
Yes, my 50mm APO is a Sony e-mount and it looks like the shading comp. was set to Auto. I've turned it off now and I will have to try another experiment.
I really hope this solves the problem because that banding is hard to fix. I also really love my 50mm APO and was getting concerned I had a bad copy even though the majority of pictures taken with this lens render remarkably beautiful colors and detail.
Are there any other settings I should consider? DRO is and has been turned off.
Bertrick - no, there were no filters on my lens...
p.12 #20 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
Unfortunately you will probably see this even with shading correction turned off. It affects multiple lenses, even some Sony lenses. You could tape the contacts, but then you lose communication of EXIF etc.
Did you push the files pretty hard? I think you can minimize it by using ETTR, I have not noticed it in normal shooting and RAW file processing. Certain types of shooting seem to bring it out more.
lakatua wrote:
Thanks Tim - I swear I was searching the web but I never stumbled upon the various discussions on DP.
Yes, my 50mm APO is a Sony e-mount and it looks like the shading comp. was set to Auto. I've turned it off now and I will have to try another experiment.
I really hope this solves the problem because that banding is hard to fix. I also really love my 50mm APO and was getting concerned I had a bad copy even though the majority of pictures taken with this lens render remarkably beautiful colors and detail.
Are there any other settings I should consider? DRO is and has been turned off.
Bertrick - no, there was no filters on my lens......Show more →
VM might have at least good if not better than Leica one if we trust both MTF. 
