p.11 #1 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
I would agree with philip_pj. I had A7RIV with CV E Mount 50 APO (now sold). I currently have an SL2 and 50 SL APO and an M10R with VM 50 APO. Obvioiusly, different sensors and processors, but the E Mount and the SL APO were very close. The VM is not as sharp, but very uniform to the corners (all three are).
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p.11 #2 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
Rob L wrote:
I would agree with philip_pj. I had A7RIV with CV E Mount 50 APO (now sold). I currently have an SL2 and 50 SL APO and an M10R with ZM 50 APO. Obvioiusly, different sensors and processors, but the E Mount and the SL APO were very close. The ZM is not as sharp, but very uniform to the corners (all three are).
The ZM 50 f/2 is a nice lens. It isn't an APO lens, however, and does much better stopped down. Wide open the performance is as you described, not as sharp and with quite a few aberrations. That the Voigtlander competes in the same league as the Leica SL 50 f/2 APO and the Leica M 50 f/2 APO is, IMO, very impressive given the huge price difference. That the ZM 50 f/2 isn't quite in that league isn't surprising.
p.11 #4 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
The VM is significantly smaller and lighter, and it has different glass formulations in three of ten elements. That appears to mean this near-identical design was (by necessity) revised optically, to produce a different aesthetic for M users.
They also reviewed the earlier lens design and could make subtle changes to it with their bag of optical tricks (some of which never get shared). And we live in an accelerated time for lens development - even a year sees advances at present.
They know the Leica M world inside out. Users of M rangefinder cameras will want to take different images, more of people and in street photography, interiors etc. Sony users of the E version will shoot many more landscapes and general spectrum images. Less black and white, more colour.
So Cosina may have softened the wide open 'detail rendering' of their M version specifically to cater for the different user needs based on their assessment of the above, it's still extraordinary of course, and on balance perhaps a better lens overall,depending on needs and aesthetic preference. Well done.
p.11 #5 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
I didn't see a thread for this here on the Alt board, but looks like there will be a Voigtlander 35/2 APO released soon in M and E mounts. The LH-13 hood for the VM 50/2 APO is listed on the Cosina site as also compatible with the 35 APO, which means it'll also be 49mm filter thread and 99.9% likelihood of it sharing the same design/thickness of the 50. It also makes me wonder how much optical design similarity there will be between the two.
It will be interesting to see how the 35 compares to the 50 and also to all the many other 35s out there now. For me, a happy VM 35/1.7 user for some time (other than its ergonomics), I wonder how much image quality improvement the APO will bring? I guess we'll know in the next couple months.
p.11 #6 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
rscheffler wrote:
I didn't see a thread for this here on the Alt board, but looks like there will be a Voigtlander 35/2 APO released soon in M and E mounts. The LH-13 hood for the VM 50/2 APO is listed on the Cosina site as also compatible with the 35 APO, which means it'll also be 49mm filter thread and 99.9% likelihood of it sharing the same design/thickness of the 50. It also makes me wonder how much optical design similarity there will be between the two.
It will be interesting to see how the 35 compares to the 50 and also to all the many other 35s out there now. For me, a happy VM 35/1.7 user for some time (other than its ergonomics), I wonder how much image quality improvement the APO will bring? I guess we'll know in the next couple months....Show more →
That's the thing that bugs me about those 'universal' hoods. If it fits a 50 and a 35, then it is not optimized for the 50.
Leica does the same thing - same hood on the 28 Asph 2.8 and 35 Asph 2.0.
p.11 #7 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
Desmolicious wrote:
That's the thing that bugs me about those 'universal' hoods. If it fits a 50 and a 35, then it is not optimized for the 50.
Leica does the same thing - same hood on the 28 Asph 2.8 and 35 Asph 2.0.
If the entrance pupil of the 50mm is more in the back (i.e. closer to the camera) compared to the 35mm the hood could be good for both... (?)
p.11 #8 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
I think these vintage styled round vented hoods are not the best solution if you really want to shade the lens well. They are also large and in this case, not reversible. They are in keeping with the Voigtlander and Zeiss ZM vintage vibe and look good on a Leica.
But it is possible for the same hood to work equally well with 50 and 35 because of the smaller and in many cases recessed front element on many 35s. Case in point would be the 35 and 50 2.4 Leica Summarits and the old Summicron 8 element/Summarit 35mm and 50mm Summicrons with the old 12585 hood. The old 35-70 f/4 Leica R zoom had a design where the lens extended at the wide setting and shortened when zooming out and due to that design, that hood actually worked pretty well at all settings, unlike virtually every other zoom that I can think of.
p.11 #9 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
The images of the VM on p1 show a somewhat recessed front element, making the vented hood a fair choice, and they want a compact package. The 50/2 E APO as well as the (made by Cosina) Loxia 85mm copped a lot of criticism for their full coverage hoods. 'Too long', many exclaimed. Not if you want to retain every bit of lens contrast and avoid stray light issues (both are excellent open field lenses). It's another sign of product differentiation, E to M.
p.11 #10 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
'looks like there will be a Voigtlander 35/2 APO released soon in M and E mounts'
Exact wording from Nokishita (via Google translate):
"The mass retailer price of Voigtlander "APO-LANTHAR 35mm F2 Aspherical" is 128,000 yen including tax, and the mass retailer price of "ULTRON Vintage Line 35mm F2 Aspherical Type II VM" is 88,800 yen including tax. The planned release date is April 2021 for the E-mount version of APO-LANTHAR, and March 2021 for the VM version and ULTRON of APO-LANTHAR."
It's confused but maybe: three new lenses, an E and M version of the 35/2 APO-Lanthar; and a Vintage line Ultron 35/2. The E/VM 35/2 APOs share the common RRP, and the Ultron 35/2 is much more affordable. The two M mount lenses are both due in March, the E 35/2 APO is due in April. Bearing in mind these quoted prices are different to what we will see, they are around $US1220 (E/VM 35/2 APO) and $US850 (Ultron 35/2 Vintage).
'how much image quality improvement the APO will bring?'
If the above is right, the new Ultron will presumably be improved over the current v1, and the 35/2 APO VM will be higher performance. Maybe much more so, if they use the same 'everything' as in the E version, for which hopes may be rather high.
PS If you are a glutton for punishment you can keep an eye on Nokishita at their account on the bird site (I presume nokeesh'ta is fair anglicisation):
p.11 #11 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
The new V2 35mm f2 Ultrons have the same optics as V1. The difference is all brass lens barrels and a black paint or silver paint finish, along with classic 1970's styling and focusing tab for those preferring more traditional rangefinder lens styling.
The M or FE 35mm APO-Lanthars will likely have optical performance comparable to the 50mm APO-Lanthars.
p.11 #12 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
CameraQuest wrote:
The new V2 35mm f2 Ultrons have the same optics as V1. The difference is all brass lens barrels and a black paint or silver paint finish, along with classic 1970's styling and focusing tab for those preferring more traditional rangefinder lens styling.
The M or FE 35mm APO-Lanthars will likely have optical performance comparable to the 50mm APO-Lanthars.
p.11 #13 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
padam19 wrote:
I was talking about this particular instance, some wide-angle lenses have more noticable issues, but at 50mm focal length or a newer 35mm lens like the 1.4 Distagon I really don't think there is anything to complain about in general - and you can even see that on the examples shown there, that's why I linked them. Even Nikon Z cameras will do just fine with most 50mm M lenses.
With M cameras you are getting a little bit better performance and portability but you loose IBIS and video altogether. So for a lot of people it simply does not matter for that tiniest improvement in quality. They just want to now, will this APO-Lanthar VM lens work well on the SL bodies?
And the answer is: very likely....Show more →
I have an M240 and M10M as well as an A7rIV, and my Distagon 35/1.4 zm does rather poorly on the Sony compared with the Leica bodies. It does better stopped down, but wide open the difference is quite marked and makes me disinclined to use the Distagon on the Sony. No problem in seeing the issues.
p.11 #14 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
padam19 wrote:
I was talking about this particular instance, some wide-angle lenses have more noticable issues, but at 50mm focal length or a newer 35mm lens like the 1.4 Distagon I really don't think there is anything to complain about in general - and you can even see that on the examples shown there, that's why I linked them. Even Nikon Z cameras will do just fine with most 50mm M lenses.
With M cameras you are getting a little bit better performance and portability but you loose IBIS and video altogether. So for a lot of people it simply does not matter for that tiniest improvement in quality. They just want to now, will this APO-Lanthar VM lens work well on the SL bodies?
And the answer is: very likely....Show more →
I've heard that the Leica SL has the thinnest native sensor after the M bodies, so it could be ok. However, on the Sony, both Zeiss 35/1.4 ZM and Voigtlander 50/2 APO lenses do not perform well. Even at small apertures where most of the induced field curvature is masked, there is still extra astigmatism to deal with. The Zeiss ZM could be improved with the addition of a plano-convex (PCX) lens but still not ideal results on the Sony sensor stack.
I doubt it would be any different for the new Voigtlander 35/2 APO VM on the Sony.
p.11 #15 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
Henning wrote:
I have an M240 and M10M as well as an A7rIV, and my Distagon 35/1.4 zm does rather poorly on the Sony compared with the Leica bodies. It does better stopped down, but wide open the difference is quite marked and makes me disinclined to use the Distagon on the Sony. No problem in seeing the issues.
Why bring Sony into the equation, when it is known to have the thickest sensor stack out of all the mirrorless cameras?
We were (originally) talking about the Leica SL.
p.11 #16 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
padam19 wrote:
I assume the APO-Lanthar will not be that much different, 50mm M lenses will have no issues on the SL bodies whatsoever and even newer 35mm lenses like the Distagon ZM should perform really well.
If I had a dollar for every confident—but ultimately false—assertion that “X M lens will have no issues on Y body whatsoever”, I could buy an APO-Lanthar 50mm f/2 VM lens (to give to a friend since I already have one).
In another thread, FM member freaklikeme made the smartest, most accurate statement I’ve ever read about adapting lenses:
“My advice on all adapted glass is don't listen to anyone else. There are so many variables that go into using adapted glass that your experience may not mirror anyone else's or your tolerances for imperfections may be looser.”
p.11 #17 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
padam19 wrote:
Why bring Sony into the equation, when it is known to have the thickest sensor stack out of all the mirrorless cameras?
We were (originally) talking about the Leica SL.
You're quite right. The Sony didn't really belong in this comparison; I rather sloppily just included it because other cameras (Nikons, Sonys) had been mentioned at other points in this thread. Sorry.
The Distagon is fairly good on an SL and generally quiet useable. Not as good as on an M10, but quite decent. 50mm lenses for M's are even better.
p.11 #19 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
philip_pj wrote:
Cosina puts this one up against the APO-Summicron-M 50/2. Here is how they stack up in basic dimensions:
Wow, Phillip, I have to admit that this comparison has me questioning my decision to save over AUD10,000 by purchasing the gargantuan APO-Lanthar VM instead of the svelte APO-Summicron-M.
p.11 #20 · Official: Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO VM mount
Now I think I know how FM contributors feel that don’t reside in the US. Every lens introduction is eventually assumed and consumed by Sonyites. Lol.
Shall we call it Sony Privilege? Hahaha! (There’s so many things wrong with that, that I hope you stupidly smile like I am). Ahhh Sony first world problems... maybe that’s better!
Am I wrong that assuming that Sony probably has more native glass by 3rd party manufacturers than any other brand? Not to mention the plethora of glass from Sony itself. Yet something specific to another mount comes out and it’s blasphemy! Haha!
I’ve got two words for you: adapt and ADAPT. You’re lucky you can.
I would like to hope that Voigtlander isn’t compromising their designs to work equally well with both mounts. It seems they’ve done a really good job so far. But I also believe that Voigtlander was making M mount lenses long before Sony full frame mirrorless came about and although the Leica M mount market might be niche, thank goodness Zeiss and Voigtlander continue to commit to it or it would be hard for budget minded folks to get into an old Leica rangefinder (film or digital) with the cost of Leica glass. So a tip of the cap to them for putting a concerted design effort into the M glass market.
