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Archive 2020 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4

  
 
SSO-Images
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p.1 #1 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


In particular,

RF 70-200mm f/4L (to debut any day) vs. RF 70-200mm f/2.8L
RF 24-105mm f/4L vs. RF 24-70mm f/2.8L

If cost AND weight are not a factor, it's no brainer except for a bit of reach issue with the latter. However, cost AND weight are significantly different. Cost, I can manage better, but weight is more important as my aging (and aching) body requires lighter carry load. Here are the cost and weight differences:

RF 70-200mm f/4L = 1.5 lbs and $1,599
RF 70-200mm f/2.8L = 2.35 lbs and $2,699

RF 24-105mm f/4L = 1.54 lbs and $1,099
RF 24-70mm f/2.8L = 2.7 lbs and $2,299

On my R5, the first group gives me up to 7.5 stops of image stabilization. For the latter group, up to 8 stops of image stabilization. What this means is that IS pretty much eliminates low light shooting concerns and that leaves the advantage of f/2.8 to better bokeh.

Of course, in spite of 7.5 or 8 stops of IS that the R5/lens combo gives, f/2.8 definitely has the advantage both in low light shooting and bokeh. The question is whether what advantages there are, are worth the significant cost and weight differences. Such question was simpler to answer in the EF days. You need to shoot indoors and in low light venues, you cough up the money, hardly a need to question. With the RF future, however..... What are your take? Given the IS stops you can get using these lenses with the R5 (or R6), would you still cough up the extra $1K+ for the f/2.8 version? One thing for sure, the R5 (R6) and RF f/4 lenses are as perfect as one can have for travel photography.



Dec 03, 2020 at 10:43 AM
Mike_5D
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p.1 #2 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


If weight is your primary concern, which will likely increase over time, then you may want to consider something other than full frame. Full frame zoom lenses will always have some heft to them due to physics. IS is great, but only helps with non-moving subjects and you're unlikely to get the 7-8 advertised stops unless you have exceptional technique.

In addition to my Canon full frame gear, I also own a Panasonic GH-3 and a pair of f/2.8 OIS lenses that cover the equivalent of 24-200 mm. Each lens is around 350g. Yes, that's the equivalent of a f/5.6 aperture, but Canon doesn't make any constant f/5.6 lenses to compare directly. Fuji also makes very capable cameras, with larger sensors than u4/3 and finally IBIS. Their shorter primes and slower zooms are tiny although their 2.8 zooms get pretty big again, approaching full frame size but without the same bokeh.



Dec 03, 2020 at 11:29 AM
tkbslc
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p.1 #3 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


Man people put WAY too much stock in stabilization. The reason most of us want an f2.8 is because we need more shutter speed to stop action in low light. You can have a 100 stops of stabilization and it isn't going to increase your shutter speeds. Try shooting anything living with a stabilized f4 and you are still cranking the ISO a full stop higher than f2.8 in low light every time.

I guess people that rave about these 7 stops of stabilization shoot a lot more static scenes around dusk than I do. Not even at night, because you still need a tripod at night for low ISO.



Dec 03, 2020 at 11:43 AM
Jesse Evans
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p.1 #4 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


In short: If you shoot events, weddings, or plan to shoot portraits or indoor action, get at least one of the f/2.8 lenses that suits your needs. If you’re doing landscapes, travel, documentary, you’ll be happy with the f/4s. Keep in mind you could always choose and f/4 for one lens and f/2.8 of the other if that suits you better.

I think your answer should be based on what you shoot. There’s no reason to prefer the 24-70 f/2.8 over the 24-105 f/4 for resolution alone. The 24-70 is only a bit sharper in the center than the 24-105, and in an amount that doesn’t matter for the most part.

I think the question you should ask yourself is, do you need a shallower depth of field? If so do you need it to be always with you in your zoom?

You’re saving 2lbs by going with the f/4. I suspect if these are your very only lenses, you will probably be just fine. And in the odd circumstance that you find yourself unhappy with the speed of the lens, you could add a 35mm f/1.8 AND a 85mm f/2 and still be under the weight and cost of the f/2.8 zooms. You could then bring those wide aperture primes with you when you need them, and leave the f/4 zooms at home.

My choice was to go with the f/2.8 zooms personally. Why? Because weight wasn’t much of a concern, and I find f/2.8 to be shallow enough DoF for any of my needs on FF, and while I stopped doing weddings and events professionally, I still volunteer for them occasionally and like to produce work I’m proud of for people. But that also means I’m carrying around a fair bit of weight on my hiking trips.



Dec 03, 2020 at 11:47 AM
another_mikey
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p.1 #5 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


I am in same boat as you. I currently have the R5 and just finally got my first RF lens, the 24-105 F/4 L IS. Now I am primarily interested in either scenic shooting or nightscape, with now a little bit of wildlife shooting creeping in, given the capabilities of the R5 in that arena. So the F/4 works fine for scenic, where you are almost always stopping down to increase DOF. For nightscape though, F/4 is limiting. Even F/2.8 can be limiting for that matter. Here is my plan going forward:

1) RF 24-105 F/4 - Great workhorse general purpose lens. I have used my EF version on my previous 5DsR extensively, and the new RF version is superior, especially in the corners at 24mm.

2) Will start with the 15-35 F/2.8 - Nod to this over the rumored to be coming RF 14-35 F/4, only because I will try to see if F/2.8 with the R5's better high ISO will cut it for nightscape imaging. If not I will likely sell this and transition to the aforementioned RF 14-35 F/4 L IS when it becomes available, which no doubt would be lighter. That is a match to my existing EF 16-35 F/4 I am using with an adapter now.

3) If I end up with the RF 14-35 F/4 L IS I will then pull the trigger on the very heavy Sigma 14 F/1.8 for dedicated nightscape shooting. I keep hoping they might come out with an RF version of that in the interim, but so far, Sigma is not making any forays into RF lens design so hard to say on that.

4) I am sorely tempted by the RF 100-500 for wildlife. Going in the wrong direction for weight, but I am more likely to either take just that (for a wildlife hike) or be near the car. On the lower weight side could instead get the soon to arrive RF F/4 70-200 L IS you mention - that looks to be a fantastic scenic lens and very compact and lightweight. Likely cannot swing both the RF 70-200 F/4 and the RF 100-500 though. In any case, one of these options will replace my trusty EF 70-300 L IS lens.

So for me, except for night shooting and wildlife, F/4 L RF offerings are the way to go.

ML



Dec 03, 2020 at 01:30 PM
SSO-Images
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p.1 #6 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


Thank you all for your helpful responses. I should have made myself clearer rather than merely hinting at it. I'm primarily considering these choices of lenses for traveling, which I intend to do lots of post-Covid. I used to travel with just one EF lens, 24-70mm f/2.8L, and looking to lighten my load. It's been burdensome that in my recent pre-Covid travels, I only carried 16-35 f/4. While I loved the lighter load, it's not an ideal travel lens. I also have the original edition of 70-200mm f/2.8L, and I'm about to sell this one while keeping the 24-70L for my basement studio and outdoor portrait shoot with my 5D IV. In my travels, I mostly shoot street scenes, buildings, landscapes, candids, etc. with hardly any action shots. IS is very important to me, because I don't like to carry a tripod or monopod in order to lighten the load as much as possible. At this point, I'm leaning toward f/4 as fitting my needs better.


Dec 03, 2020 at 01:43 PM
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p.1 #7 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


I'm not a fan of heavy, and the RF70-200 isn't light. But it's light ENOUGH. The stunningly compact form at 70 makes it handle like a 24-70 f2.8, effectively a normal/heavy.

I'd need a powerful reason (like counting my grams for a mountain climb) not to get arguably one of the best-designed, most usable lenses ever made.

But I'll bet the f4 is a little gem.



Dec 03, 2020 at 02:55 PM
Jman13
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p.1 #8 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


I own the Tamron 70-180mm f/2.8 for Sony, have tested the RF 70-200/2.8, and I have the RF 70-200/4 on preorder.

My thoughts are, if you want the look of an f/2.8 lens, it's wonderful to have, and I really enjoy having a compact, lightweight f/2.8 telezoom in my Tamron. I was very much impressed with the RF 70-200mm f/2.8, but while it's great optically, and almost as light as the Tamron, I just couldn't justify the enormous cost. It's just SO expensive, and when compared to the other options, I just couldn't justify the cost. I'm hoping that eventually Tamron ports their 70-180mm f/2.8 over to Canon, as optically it's every bit as good as the RF, but it's $1,500 less expensive.

I also was very much keen on having a high quality 70-200mm of the same size as my 24-105/4L. that's going to be fantastic.

The same sort of thing applies on the f/2.8 24-70....if you need the speed, it should be a great option, but for travel, I think the f/4 versions are definitely the way to go: the lighter weight will be very nice when walking around for long periods of time, and the f/4 aperture should be plenty for most any travel work.



Dec 03, 2020 at 03:22 PM
Jesse Evans
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p.1 #9 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4




SSO-Images wrote:
Thank you all for your helpful responses. I should have made myself clearer rather than merely hinting at it. I'm primarily considering these choices of lenses for traveling, which I intend to do lots of post-Covid. I used to travel with just one EF lens, 24-70mm f/2.8L, and looking to lighten my load. It's been burdensome that in my recent pre-Covid travels, I only carried 16-35 f/4. While I loved the lighter load, it's not an ideal travel lens. I also have the original edition of 70-200mm f/2.8L, and I'm about to sell this one while keeping the 24-70L for
...Show more →

I would just get the 24-105 f/4. It’s a fantastic lens for your type of photography. You will never notice a difference in IBIS. It doesn’t seem you need a 70-200 at all.



Dec 03, 2020 at 03:46 PM
jedibrain
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p.1 #10 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


Another thought....the F4 pairing plus a 35 or 50mm prime could cover you quite well. The primes hardly take up any space, and are light. And provide aperture of F2 or 1.8 respectively. They would also be of use in your studio or for portraits.

The RF24-105, RF 70-200F4L IS and say 35mm prime make a great and compact travel bag.

Another, another thought. Look at an M50 or M6II if you want something remarkably small and light. The 22mm F2 lens is great for street photography, and they have available 55-200mm zooms for longer stuff. and its all tiny but provides the same IQ as the full sized aps-c cameras.

-Brian




Dec 03, 2020 at 07:12 PM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #11 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


It's always driven me nuts how people seem to have a tendency to buy the biggest most expensive lenses on here. But thankfully you do seem to understand that you don't have to. Of course one question, are you shooting static subjects? I'm not sure how well IS etc does on action or moving subjects. I tried IS on basketball one time although maybe others have had luck. Granted Idk how much difference between 1.5lbs and 2.35 I'm not sure if I notice a lot of differencebetween my 80's alts in this FL and the 180 Tamron which is about 2.2lbs IIRC.

I mean yeah I'd rather have 2.8 but I think $1600 is a lot for the EF 2.8 even. And I mean I don't necessarily consider the 70-200/2.8's to be too heavy but I had arm issues last year after carrying heavy gear (pretty much daily though) and I really like the 55-250 + SL2 anyway.

But I mean you don't need 2.8 as much as you used to. High ISO is better and those IBIS advances sound pretty amazing. Not familiar with the 24-105 L is that R, have looked at lens test etc on non L kit lens though. It looked pretty good. Not perfect but 24-105 is a fairly large range and Idk that those ever were perfect optically.



Dec 03, 2020 at 07:22 PM
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p.1 #12 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


AmbientMike wrote:
It's always driven me nuts how people seem to have a tendency to buy the biggest most expensive lenses on here.


I suspect that the pattern is that those who buy the expensive ones post the most about it, and those who buy the modest ones are more... modest.




Dec 04, 2020 at 07:13 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #13 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


I was surprised that you did not introduce one more factor to those affecting a decision between f/2.8 and f/4 L zooms: the nature of the photography you do.

I have a couple of the f/2.8 L zooms (24-70 and 70-200). They are very nice lenses. However, I also have the 70-200mm f/4L IS, and it real world performance terms I cannot see any meaningful difference between large prints shot with the two different 70-200mm lenses.

Because my main use of those lenses is for landscape and similar photography, the extra stop has little real photographic value. And for the same reason (landscape photography) the larger size/weight is, as you note, a real disadvantage when I'm schlepping that gear on my back. Heck, it is even a disadvantage when I'm packing it up to load it in my car.

If I were replacing lenses today, I would look for f/4 versions of the 16-35 (which is the EF lens I own), the 24-70,and the 70-200mm zooms. It isn't a matter of the cost. It is a matter of utility.

On the other hand, obviously, if the specific nature of my photography would benefit from having one more stop on such lenses, I'd look at this differently. (In fact, I got the two f/2.8 zooms when I started a three-year project photographing a particular subject that did benefit from the larger apertures.)

Finally, it can be hard to overcome that nagging suspicion that the f/2.8 zooms must be better than the f/2.8 zooms — after all, they are bigger (and cooler looking!) and they cost more. But if you step back from that and consider the f/4 zooms more dispassionately you'll find that their optical performance is on par with the larger aperture relatives and the f/4 lenses have some functional advantages if you don't really need f/2.8.

Dan

SSO-Images wrote:
In particular,

RF 70-200mm f/4L (to debut any day) vs. RF 70-200mm f/2.8L
RF 24-105mm f/4L vs. RF 24-70mm f/2.8L

If cost AND weight are not a factor, it's no brainer except for a bit of reach issue with the latter. However, cost AND weight are significantly different. Cost, I can manage better, but weight is more important as my aging (and aching) body requires lighter carry load. Here are the cost and weight differences:

RF 70-200mm f/4L = 1.5 lbs and $1,599
RF 70-200mm f/2.8L = 2.35 lbs and $2,699

RF 24-105mm f/4L = 1.54 lbs and $1,099
RF 24-70mm f/2.8L = 2.7 lbs and $2,299

On
...Show more →




Dec 04, 2020 at 11:02 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #14 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


Another thing, the slower lenses tend to be better. The 70-200/4 IS was considered the sharpest Canon tele zoom even though they had several 2.8's out. V2 MTF looked really good. Will this continue in the RF mount versions?

Not sure if the adapter has any effect on iq, I happily use cheap ebay adapters on alts though. And according to the opticallimits test it has a focus shift up close. But you might consider the 24-70/4 IS, as well. Supposed to be really good and might not be too heavy 600g 21oz according to KR



Dec 04, 2020 at 01:10 PM
SSO-Images
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p.1 #15 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


Thanks everyone for your kind input.

I went ahead and pre-ordered the RF 70-200mm f/4L and ordered the RF 24-105 f/4L.

Both combined is still cheaper than one RF 70-200mm f/2.8L. -- by a penny.

I plan on carrying just one lens for travel, and the RF 24-105mm f/4 should serve me very well for the purpose. It has the versatility that I need and, weighing at 1.54 lbs, about a pound less than my EF 24-70 f/2.8 that I used to travel with. Since I'm planning on continuing to use my 5D IV, I decided to keep the EF 24-70 for my studio work and around the house. I do plan on selling my EF 70-200 f/2.8L, though, and this will be replaced by the RF 70-200 f/4. Incredibly, this glass weighs less than the RF 70-200 f/4.



Dec 04, 2020 at 01:33 PM
SSO-Images
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p.1 #16 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


Just received the RF 24-105 f/4L, went downstairs to my basement studio, and tested its IS to see how much I can push it. Hand-held. Just a straight conversion from RAW to JPEG without any processing. Cropped for closer view:

1/4sec f/5.6 105mm ISO 6400


0.3sec f/6.3 105mm ISO 6400


0.5sec f/6.3 105mm ISO 6400


I'm pretty impressed with the results. If I had braced a bit against something, I could have gone much lower ss.



Dec 06, 2020 at 01:37 PM
Jesse Evans
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p.1 #17 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


Congrats on the new lens!


Dec 06, 2020 at 01:38 PM
SSO-Images
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p.1 #18 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


Jesse Evans wrote:
Congrats on the new lens!


Thank you, I think I'm going to really enjoy this lens!



Dec 06, 2020 at 02:38 PM
dcisive
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p.1 #19 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


The RF24-105L is an exceptional lens. Somewhat an "exception to the rule" regarding what has often been utilized by Canon as a "kit" lens. It is quite sharp across the board even wide open. BUT (and I do mean BUT) I opted for the RF24-70 f2.8 because, as a working professional in Real Estate and Portrait work I need as much control over my gear as possible. The extra stop gives me that. I would say from all I see out there as much as 80% do not need the f2.8 for their efforts. The 24-105 is a perfect way to get what you want without paying a premium. Well done.


Dec 06, 2020 at 03:03 PM
Dave_E
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p.1 #20 · Canon RF f/2.8 vs. f/4


I have the RF24-105 F4 and RF 35. I plan to sell my EF70-200 F2.8IS VII and get the RF 70-200 F4 because as mentioned above I found I didn't need the F2.8. I have both the EF 16-35 F4IS and the 24-70 F4IS and found them excellent for travel. Time will tell if I will replace them with the RF versions or continue to used the adapters with both my EOS-R and R5. I like the mirrorless so much I just sold off my 5DIV.

Dave



Dec 06, 2020 at 08:14 PM
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