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Archive 2021Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)

  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.37 #1Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
Teo Rey wrote:
Matt Grum wrote
Teo Rey wroteIs this the kind that can be easily removed in post, or no?
No, the kind that can be easily remove is lateral chromatic aberration.
I thought that lateral CA only appears on the plane of focus? The CA on the GM that people are most concerned about is on the focus plane, no?


Basically lateral CA is variation in the "magnification" of the different colors of light and axial CA is a variation of each "wavelength" of light.
The former is visible at the edges and the latter anywhere in the frame (including center). Purple fringing is longitudinal/axial CA and also deals with wavelength discrepancy. The only difference is that it is visible on the focused area.

Lateral CA does not go away when stopping the lens down but it's easy to correct without significant IQ loss.
Longitudinal/axial CA goes away when stopping the lens down. Wide open, it's not easy to correct but can be masked in post.
Jan 14, 2021 at 09:02 PM
wind30
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p.37 #2Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
Fred Miranda wrote:
I know it's hard to resist but we should not compare color aberration correction from lenses with different focal lengths.

Instead we should compare the FE 24/1.4 GM to other 24mm f/1.4 lenses. The FE 24/1.4 GM is well regarded because it actually does better than the competition in regards to CA and resolution while being compact for what it is.

Here is a high contrast sample showing axial CA on the metal chain: (front of plane of focus)


my personal threshold is if you have to post a 100% pic to see the problem, I usually don't care. I mean if you look at pixel level, there is sooo many things to nit pick on.

It is all about alternatives. I still kept my 24mm gm for years even though the fringing is so obvious in certain conditions. 35mm, there is the sigma f1.2 which does almost everything well in terms of IQ, thus the 35mm gm has to perform better than the 24mm gm for me. My bar for the 35mm is higher because of the sigma 35mm f1.2.

Jan 14, 2021 at 10:04 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.37 #3Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
wind30 wrote:
Fred Miranda wroteI know it's hard to resist but we should not compare color aberration correction from lenses with different focal lengths.

Instead we should compare the FE 24/1.4 GM to other 24mm f/1.4 lenses. The FE 24/1.4 GM is well regarded because it actually does better than the competition in regards to CA and resolution while being compact for what it is.

Here is a high contrast sample showing axial CA on the metal chain: (front of plane of focus)
my personal threshold is if you have to post a 100% pic to see the problem, I usually don't care. I mean if you look at pixel level, there is sooo many things to nit pick on.

It is all about alternatives. I still kept my 24mm gm for years even though the fringing is so obvious in certain conditions. 35mm, there is the sigma f1.2 which does almost everything well in terms of IQ, thus the 35mm gm has to perform better than the 24mm gm for me. My bar for the 35mm is higher because of the sigma 35mm
...Show more →

The Sigma 35/1.2 has indeed better axial CA correction if you compare it to the 24/1.4 GM but like I said, it's not really fair to compare them.
In the case of the new FE 35/1.4 GM, it's still a question mark for me, but from what I've seen so far, axial CA is visible in some images, although it seems to do better than most 35mm f/1.4 lenses available. Perhaps the Sigma 35/1.2 will still have better correction. Not sure.
Jan 14, 2021 at 10:07 PM
jhinkey
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p.37 #4Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
It would still love to see 35/2GM from Sony . . . . maybe that's too easy to do now that they've made a 34/1.4.
Jan 14, 2021 at 10:13 PM
thousandths
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p.37 #5Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
I never loved the 35mm FE, to the point where I've used it maybe two total days and haven't touched it since. I love the CV 40 but wants something with AF between the 24GM and 55/85.

Should I order this sight unseen, or has the ship sailed in terms of pre-orders times and I should wait for reviews and folks to post their shots?

I remember the 24GM being hard to get for 6 months or more.
Jan 14, 2021 at 11:00 PM
Teo Rey
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p.37 #6Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)


DavidBM wrote:
Teo Rey wrote
Matt Grum wrote
Teo Rey wroteIs this the kind that can be easily removed in post, or no?
No, the kind that can be easily remove is lateral chromatic aberration.
I thought that lateral CA only appears on the plane of focus? The CA on the GM that people are most concerned about is on the focus plane, no?
Longitudinal CA can appear to be on the plane of focus, even though strictly speaking it isn’t, unlike LaCA which is strictly on the focus plane.

This happens when there is an in focus subject - let’s say some trees at infinity, but some colours are out of focus (commonly violet) and so form a kind of halo around it of fringing. It’s longitudinal because the different colours are in focus at different subject distances.

This can sometime be visually hard to distinguish (or can be combined with) lateral CA where the colours are in the focus the same subject distance. But
...Show more →

Hmm, that's very interesting. Thank you for the explanation! So then if it's hard to tell them apart, how can we know which is which?
Jan 14, 2021 at 11:05 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.37 #7Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
Teo Rey wrote:
DavidBM wrote
Teo Rey wrote
Matt Grum wrote
Teo Rey wroteIs this the kind that can be easily removed in post, or no?
No, the kind that can be easily remove is lateral chromatic aberration.
I thought that lateral CA only appears on the plane of focus? The CA on the GM that people are most concerned about is on the focus plane, no?
Longitudinal CA can appear to be on the plane of focus, even though strictly speaking it isn’t, unlike LaCA which is strictly on the focus plane.

This happens when there is an in focus subject - let’s say some trees at infinity, but some colours are out of focus (commonly violet) and so form a kind of halo around it of fringing. It’s longitudinal because the different colours are in focus at different subject distances.

This can sometime be visually hard to distinguish (or can be combined with) lateral CA where the colours are in the focus the same subject distance. But here you get fringing because the magnification is a little different between colour channels, causing fringing.
Hmm, that's very interesting. Thank you for the explanation! So then if it's hard to tell them apart, how can we know which is which?


https://photographylife.com/what-is-chromatic-aberration

That will help.

Lateral CA happens outside the image center with high contrast structures, and doesn't go away when stopped down and can be in the focal plane. Longitudinal CA happens just before and after the focal point, being either green or purple, but is fixed by stopping down 2-3 stops on most lenses (like the GM 24 or Sigma 35/1.2). Both result from a lens' inability to focus wave lengths optimally, but look at the link to see how they differ.

Practically speaking, I recently purchased a ZF 28/2. Wide open at f2, if I focused on a nail from 2 feet away, just before and behind were purple and green around the nail. If it were an APO lens, we wouldn't see that (or much much less). By f4 on the ZF 28, the false color is gone/insignificant. However when I checked the lens at infinite, I saw lateral CA purple outlining on tree branches even at f8. It's an older lens now, but not that well corrected for either type of CA.
Jan 14, 2021 at 11:47 PM
hiepphotog
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p.37 #8Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
wind30 wrote:
j4nu wrote
darrellc wroteMore out of curiosity than real consideration given it weighs 29.372 lbs and is taller than my camera backpack, but now that the Sigma 35 1.2 is plummeting / will plummet in value and like new copies can be found on B&S already below $1K, well below new GM + tax pricing, is there any respect in which the Sigma seems to outperform the GM at common apertures (from f/1.4, I know you get f/1.2 with Sigma...) based on early reviews?

My quick, casual scan of reviews doesn't suggest much (maybe focus breathing, that's crazy multi-mm focus breathing on the GM... maybe it is a 40mm + lens up close?)
The discussion in this thread points to "on axis" CA (purple fringing), like Fred called it, which I also have a feeling will behave similar to 24GM so not too well in demanding conditions (e.g. branches against heavy backlit sky).
This was and still is I guess my main gripe about 24GM, when I took it to the forest with harsh winter sun and trees/branches covering the whole top of the frame, the results were pretty disappointing (but then I'm not sure which lens would do significantly better, maybe the bigger Sigma 24).
I was beginning to think I am alone about the 24mm gm issue with color fringing. Example of the 24mm gm below. It is really a significant issue so I am not sure why 24mm is so highly rated. It is a good lens but it is in no way perfect. I am beginning to feel the same way about the 35mm f1.4gm. I don't want to sell my 35mm f1.2 which honestly I have no complains about in Image quality. Sure there is some color fringing too but it is really quite low and below my threshold.

24mm gm
...Show more →

The sort of compromises you have to take to have a sharp and compact lens... to know for sure if the GM 35/1.4 meets your expectation, best to shoot with one. But likely you will have to keep your Sigma. Fringing is annoying for me for sure, but less so to me than the weight and size one has to take to suppress them at the current tech. I’m pretty sure all of the high-end Canikon RF and Z lenses will have no problem with this. You don’t mind the weight, those might be a better system, especially Nikon Z. Ignoring the weight and size, the two Nikon S 58/0.95 and 50/1.2 are very sharp and well corrected (remarkably so), even more than the Canon RF counterpart. Either that or you need to keep buying those very fast and big Sigma, though I always prefer first party offerings.
Jan 15, 2021 at 12:10 AM
DavidBM
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p.37 #9Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
Teo Rey wrote:
DavidBM wrote
Teo Rey wrote
Matt Grum wrote
Teo Rey wroteIs this the kind that can be easily removed in post, or no?
No, the kind that can be easily remove is lateral chromatic aberration.
I thought that lateral CA only appears on the plane of focus? The CA on the GM that people are most concerned about is on the focus plane, no?
Longitudinal CA can appear to be on the plane of focus, even though strictly speaking it isn’t, unlike LaCA which is strictly on the focus plane.

This happens when there is an in focus subject - let’s say some trees at infinity, but some colours are out of focus (commonly violet) and so form a kind of halo around it of fringing. It’s longitudinal because the different colours are in focus at different subject distances.

This can sometime be visually hard to distinguish (or can be combined with) lateral CA where the colours are in the focus the same subject distance. But here you get fringing because the magnification is a little different between colour channels, causing fringing.
Hmm, that's very interesting. Thank you for the explanation! So then if it's hard to tell them apart, how can we know which is which?


Longitudinal CA will go away on stopping down.

If you have already taken the photo, then lateral CA will usually go away if tick the me move CA box in Lightroom or equivalent.

There are typical colour signatures you can learn, and LaCA tends to seem like a sharper edge fringe.
Jan 15, 2021 at 12:13 AM
Arka
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p.37 #10Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
Ooh.. nice and light! I may sell my Summilux 35 for this!

Arka C.
Jan 15, 2021 at 12:19 AM
Flaxx74
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p.37 #11Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
Pre-ordered as well at a large photography shop that sells as well online (shops are closed, lockdown) here in Switzerland. First time I pre-ordered a lens. Lets see if I was quick enough to get the lens before my birthday in April
Jan 15, 2021 at 02:38 AM
Kalainen
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p.37 #12Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
Fred Miranda wrote:
Teo Rey wrote
Matt Grum wrote
Teo Rey wroteIs this the kind that can be easily removed in post, or no?
No, the kind that can be easily remove is lateral chromatic aberration.
I thought that lateral CA only appears on the plane of focus? The CA on the GM that people are most concerned about is on the focus plane, no?
Basically lateral CA is variation in the "magnification" of the different colors of light and axial CA is a variation of each "wavelength" of light.
The former is visible at the edges and the latter anywhere in the frame (including center). Purple fringing is longitudinal/axial CA and also deals with wavelength discrepancy. The only difference is that it is visible on the focused area.

Lateral CA does not go away when stopping the lens down but it's easy to correct without significant IQ loss.
Longitudinal/axial CA goes away when stopping the lens down. Wide open, it's not easy to correct but
...Show more →

Here's a practical advice on how to correct Longitudinal/axial CA in Lightroom:

1. Tick 'on' the corrections of chromatic aberrations and make sure you have right colors setup there - this of course does nothing to longitudinal/axial CA (but it usually corrects the lateral CA if there is any)

2. Take 'Adjustment brush' and paint with it on the areas where you have longitudinal/axial CA in the picture. Then hit hard with the 'Defringe' on the adjustment brush panel. This usually corrects some of the longitudinal fringing, sometimes almost all of it, though results vary.

I've been correcting some of the Batis 25 images when shooting wide open and Fred's example of GM fringing looks very very similar. Of course massive fringing cannot be totally corrected, but most of the time the irritating aspects (ie. bright non natural colors) can be reduced not to take attention in the image.
Jan 15, 2021 at 02:56 AM
j4nu
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p.37 #13Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
What a great discussion on the CA topic !
Can you help me and try to tell what kind of CA the fringing on the branches in the background is (f11, but focused close):

DSC05817 by Jan U, on Flickr

I chose this shot as it's not overexposed, which helps a bit I think.
In other shots I have from that forest, the sky is overblown, which makes the matter even worse, even though they're at f8 and the branches in the background are more or less in focus...
Jan 15, 2021 at 03:56 AM
thrice
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p.37 #14Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
There is no CA around the branches. Do you mean the defocused branches that make the sky look darker
Jan 15, 2021 at 05:04 AM
thrice
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p.37 #15Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
Teo Rey wrote:
thrice wrote
Teo Rey wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
hiepphotog wrote
wind30 wroteanother comparison of LoCA from lenstip.

https://www.lenstip.com/598.10-Lens_review-Sony_FE_35_mm_f_1.4_GM_Autofocus.html

https://www.lenstip.com/566.10-Lens_review-Sigma_A_35_mm_f_1.2_DG_DN_Autofocus.html
I am curious to hear what you think. The peculiar thing about some of these recent modern optics is that some situations can really bring the worst in them, especially LoCA, though it can be only in some rare occasions. From lenstip, I see on axis, the GM has a tad more color error in focus, while out of focus, it’s about the same.
Yes, "on axis" color error (purple fringing).
Is this the kind that can be easily removed in post, or no?
You can try a sharp violet cut filter like this https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Optical-450nm-Long-Pass-Filter-Glass-UV-Cut-Filter-50mm-Square-/263633374813
I have a modded camera (430nm-690nm) which doesn't seem to suffer purple fringing, but I definitely see the other side (green fringing).
I thought mirrorless cameras already cut out UV light?


Yes but they pass plenty of visible deep blue light which they display as violet/magenta.
Jan 15, 2021 at 05:06 AM
j4nu
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p.37 #16Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
thrice wrote:
There is no CA around the branches. Do you mean the defocused branches that make the sky look darker


I call this fringing (100% crop):

DSCO05817_crop_1 by Jan U, on Flickr

Am I wrong? I think it would not stand out that much against the color of the sky if it was the same color?
Jan 15, 2021 at 06:04 AM
trogdon
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p.37 #17Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
That’s definitely not fringing
Jan 15, 2021 at 06:32 AM
j4nu
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p.37 #18Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
trogdon wrote:
That’s definitely not fringing


So, according to the responses:
* it's not CA
* it's not fringing.

What is it then ?
I'm asking a genuine question, as this thing bothers me the most in my shots from 24GM in the woods.

I'll post some more evident examples, but the sky is terribly overblown in most of them.


DSC05746 by Jan U, on Flickr
* f11

Focus point:
DSC05746_focus by Jan U, on Flickr


This one is a bit unfair, as it's wide open:

DSC05743 by Jan U, on Flickr
* f1.4

Focus point:
DSC05743_focus by Jan U, on Flickr
Jan 15, 2021 at 06:38 AM
hiepphotog
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p.37 #19Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
j4nu wrote:
trogdon wroteThat’s definitely not fringing
So, according to the responses:
* it's not CA
* it's not fringing.

What is it then ?
I'm asking a genuine question, as this thing bothers me the most in my shots from 24GM in the woods.

I'll post some more evident examples, but the sky is terribly overblown in most of them.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50837965081_3ccdcb2e8f_h.jpgDSC05746 by Jan U, on Flickr
* f11

Focus point:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50837965166_616b8fbe61_h.jpgDSC05746_focus by Jan U, on Flickr

This one is a bit unfair, as it's wide open:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50837267048_7b4d1bb9c4_h.jpgDSC05743 by Jan U, on Flickr
* f1.4

Focus point:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50837267728_4da607f41a_b.jpgDSC05743_focus by Jan U, on Flickr


At f/11, unlikely it’s LoCA. That looks like a digital artifact. Did you have the color correction on on your camera?
Jan 15, 2021 at 06:56 AM
Tora_2097
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p.37 #20Pre-order: Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM ($1,399)
I think it is the effect of defocused and thus semi-transparent edges gradually darkening the sky portion behind it.
Stuff you can see on helicopterblades for example, even though the transparency comes from motionblur in this case.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Mh60S_Training_Flight_1.jpeg
Jan 15, 2021 at 07:08 AM
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