A few mentions of the RX1 and they do indeed show the changes of the last decade. The RX1 weighs 475g against the a7C at 509g. The dimensions are pretty close: 124mm x 71mm x 60mm (a7C) and 113mm x 65mm x 70mm (RX1).
But only one of these very light cameras has a lens included in these data. The lens is rather special of course, so we need to add something similar to the a7C in order for it to compete. What would that be?
Well regarded by Fred and others, Sigma's sweet 35/2 DG DN seems a good candidate. It's an additional 70mm x 67mm and would add 325g to the tally of the a7C, bringing it out to 834 grams. Its MFD is 27cm, the RX1 Sonnar does 20cm. The Sigma's hood adds 48g, you can effectively use a step down ring on the Sonnar's 49mm thread.
The sensors have come a long way - or have they? At ISO 100: 11.39 (RX1) -vs- 11.59 (a7C); ISO 400: 9.60 (RX1) -vs- 9.74 (a7C); ISO 3200: 6.72 (RX1) -vs- 7.46 (a7C). Even experienced users have trouble seeing a difference in DR of under one stop, especially at over 10 stops.
We have to mention the viewfinders. One of them tilts and has an effective rubber hood, enabling all manner of discreet shotmaking and easy operation in bright sunlight.
There is the shutter too. The RX1 completes its task with a deft snick that even the photographer struggles to hear - or feel, such is the lack of vibration of leaf shutters. The A7C shutter can be heard here (YT video title):
'Sony a7c shutter sounds camera shutter sound effect(ROYALTY FREE TO USE SOUNDS)'
It's just a quick roundup of some of the fundamentals that matter to some: size-weight-loudness-DR-VF-focus range. We can add quality of controls, integration of FLC, sensor dust, operational controls, probably more too.
Lost in the 'desire for the new', people tend to focus on the problems of what is now apparently outdated: battery life, screen, AF speed, IBIS. But they may not see a fair balance of pros and cons, as they appear in actual usage.
There is also the value for Euro/Dollar: In Germany you get the RX1 new only for 3099 Euro. The A7c (body) you can get for 1780 Euro. So you still have 1319 Euro for a nice lens when buying the A7c! (May differ elsewhere)
Of course the weight with lens is allways higher with the A7c....
• interchangeable lenses
• weather-sealed body
• 693 focus points vs 25
• fully articulating screen
• touch-screen focus
• sensor shift image stabilization
• 10 fps shooting vs 5
• battery lasts 740 shots vs 220
• timelapse recording
• UHS-II support
• animal eye tracking
• human eye tracking
If I had the need for a high resolution fixed lens mirrorless camera, I would buy either the RX1RII or Leica Q2.
Me too. I have the original RX1R (not II, bought used when it became affordable at around 100K JPY) but I much prefer using my A7C since RX1R is missing EVF and it's got a lot of limitations in comparison to A7C. I also added a wooden + metal grip to it which makes it much nicer from handling perspective but as a result it's not so much lighter than my A7C with a small lens. MF use is also much nicer with suitable lenses on the A7C whereas MF experience on RX1R is quite poor. I have added quite a lot of small native E-mount lenses to my collection since getting my A7C so it's quite versatile now, and I find it to be very nice for adapting M and LTM (mostly CV + various other Japanese RF) glass as well. Just have to pick lenses that play along well enough with Sony sensor.
For my current needs (as a daily carry for walk-around shooting) A7C is quite optimal. Sigma fp is my 2nd pick but it really requires an additional grip and EVF-11 and then it's already bigger and it has some more quirks.
On my worries list and the reason for previously not getting an A7C were:
* EVF might be problematic for manual focusing and also for use with glasses
* EFCS only shutter for HSS flash and also max 1/4000 shutter for bright lenses in sunlight not ideal
* No joystick
* Hard to get a good deal on black bodys (don't want the silver one)
So I decided to stick with my A7III as my everyday body, though the smaller size and weight of the A7C would be welcome for an everyday body.
And then a week ago I got an email from a Photo dealer here in Sweden with a very good offer on the silver A7C and the 28-60 (22,5% rebate) so I pulled the trigger after all.
My initial testings says:
* The small 28-60 lens is better than I thought both sharpness and rendering. It has a decent sunstar and can stand against flaring surprisingly well. It is slow with f4-5.6 but if I compare it to my old RX100mkI which is 28-100 mm (equivalent) and f1.8-4.9 which with the 3 stops sensor difference makes f5.4-14.7 (if I made the math right) on DOF and noise then it actually is an improvement. Sure the A7C with 28-60 is still three times the weight and size over the RX100 but it has FF dynamic range, colors etc. So in all it will make a good walk around combo in daylight.
* With the small Samyang f1.8 lenses the A7C is really nice to work with and also the Sony 28/2 and 55/1.8. Even the Tamron 28-200 mm feels ok on it for me. And the Samyang 35/2.8 makes it very light and compact.
* The EVF and LCD are sharper than I thought they would be. They are better than the A7III that I find hard to check sharpness on when magnified. I can focus manual lenses on the A7C without any real issues. And the EVF is overall better for me (wear glasses) than I thought.
* No joystick isn't that big of a problem, the A7C has the same focus box positioning on the 4 way wheel as my RX100mkI and A7RII and above that it has touch screen AF positioning and very good tracking (will be interesting to see how it does vs my A9).
On the plus side:
* The A7C has a proper Aperture Drive in AF Focus Priority implementation, making it a better body for low light indoor group portraits with flash than any of my other bodys.
* I can hold it so I can trigger it with my thumb and have it a little lower and compose on the folded out screen and look at my subjects directly without having a big camera covering my face.
What remains as potential problems are:
* The EFCS only shutter (for fast glass wide open one can go over to e-shutter and get up to 1/8000 for portraits without flash when there is no rolling shutter movement issues). Indoors I don't see the 1/160 flash limit as a problem for my type of shooting. But outdoors the EFCS only shutter might produce a banding problem when used with HSS.
* It can be harder to use with larger lenses vs my regular A7 style bodys due to the smaller size but much is also just finding the right way to hold it, so maybe that isn't such a big deal after all and I will mostly use it with smaller lenses anyway.
* I liked to have the trio: A7RII, A9 and A7III since I like to work with one to three bodys depending on the photo project and these three bodys combined everything nicely for me. Now I ended up with four bodys which is overkill and I can't really decide how to come down to three bodys again the best way. Now I know, that is a real developed country problem...
Taylor Sherman wrote:
1.8 to 4.9 times three stops is 5.08-13.8 (each stop is *1.414, so it's times 2.828 overall)
Thanks!
(I used the principle that every second stop doubles f2, 4, 8, 16 etc and then added half the value on top of that so 1.8 x 2 + 1.8 = 5.4. I didn't know of that 1.414 constant. Nice to learn something new!)
lattesweden wrote:
On my worries list and the reason for previously not getting an A7C were:
* No joystick
* No joystick isn't that big of a problem, the A7C has the same focus box positioning on the 4 way wheel as my RX100mkI and A7RII and above that it has touch screen AF positioning and very good tracking (will be interesting to see how it does vs my A9).
Hi, AF tracking is very good on A7C. Turn on AF tracking, AF C, map to AF button. Focus on subject, keep holding AF button, reframe. Order of magnitude faster than joystick. Works for me with the way I shoot.
Not for me.
I do have a A6300, but to be honest I do not use it much.
Very happy with my A7R3 and small primes, like the FE 55mm f1.8
So very often the A6300 is left in the car.
walknorth wrote:
Hi, AF tracking is very good on A7C. Turn on AF tracking, AF C, map to AF button. Focus on subject, keep holding AF button, reframe. Order of magnitude faster than joystick. Works for me with the way I shoot.
don
I don't use tracking on my A9 that often, nor the high frame rate. I actually bought it in 2017 since it had the best available autofocus at the time and I needed a body for people work, both low light club events and portraits etc and the only body I had at the time was an A7RII. The A9 I normally shot in AF-C with flexible spot and position it via the joystick or touch screen to where I want AF. With Face detect and Eye-AF on, it also guides that so I get the right person in a crowd at an event in focus.
So it does happen that I use the tracking and I have a feeling for how good it is on the A9 and I have been thinking in using it the way you describe it, so it will be interesting to see what I think of the A7C on that behalf after some usage. My initial tracking testings in low light at home have been good.
In the above linked shot you can also see one of the ways I used all my at the time current bodys with the A7RII having the 16-35/2.8 GM on which works very well on that body. On the A7III I had the Sigma 85/1.4 DG DN and the A9 had the 70-200/2.8 GM. I later switched the 85 mm on the A7III for the 35/1.4 GM. The use of several bodys holds down lens changes and interruptions and gives a better flow during the session. I even used the RX100mkI for some close up shots. If you hover over the images at DPreview you can see the Exif details.
I also use AF-C tracking as a mirrorless version of the focus and recompose technique. For me, it sort of makes a joystick obsolete--at least in landscape mode. (I haven't been able to figure out how to get tracking to work in portrait mode on the A7C.)
philip_pj wrote:
A few mentions of the RX1 and they do indeed show the changes of the last decade. The RX1 weighs 475g against the a7C at 509g. The dimensions are pretty close: 124mm x 71mm x 60mm (a7C) and 113mm x 65mm x 70mm (RX1).
But only one of these very light cameras has a lens included in these data. The lens is rather special of course, so we need to add something similar to the a7C in order for it to compete. What would that be?
Well regarded by Fred and others, Sigma's sweet 35/2 DG DN seems a good candidate. It's an additional 70mm x 67mm and would add 325g to the tally of the a7C, bringing it out to 834 grams. Its MFD is 27cm, the RX1 Sonnar does 20cm. The Sigma's hood adds 48g, you can effectively use a step down ring on the Sonnar's 49mm thread.
The sensors have come a long way - or have they? At ISO 100: 11.39 (RX1) -vs- 11.59 (a7C); ISO 400: 9.60 (RX1) -vs- 9.74 (a7C); ISO 3200: 6.72 (RX1) -vs- 7.46 (a7C). Even experienced users have trouble seeing a difference in DR of under one stop, especially at over 10 stops.
We have to mention the viewfinders. One of them tilts and has an effective rubber hood, enabling all manner of discreet shotmaking and easy operation in bright sunlight.
There is the shutter too. The RX1 completes its task with a deft snick that even the photographer struggles to hear - or feel, such is the lack of vibration of leaf shutters. The A7C shutter can be heard here (YT video title):
'Sony a7c shutter sounds camera shutter sound effect(ROYALTY FREE TO USE SOUNDS)'
It's just a quick roundup of some of the fundamentals that matter to some: size-weight-loudness-DR-VF-focus range. We can add quality of controls, integration of FLC, sensor dust, operational controls, probably more too.
Lost in the 'desire for the new', people tend to focus on the problems of what is now apparently outdated: battery life, screen, AF speed, IBIS. But they may not see a fair balance of pros and cons, as they appear in actual usage. ...Show more →
Best tool for the situation is what you are saying, unfortunately some people have troubles with making and living with choices. I have both the RX1RII and A7C and see them coexisting nicely for a long time to come.
Well, that is until the RX1RIII comes out
Nice clear skies. I am about the same latitude as Cascades NP and nights are in the 20s but no snow yet in GNP.
I now have a similar kit for backpacking .. Either CV21/3.5 or Sigma 24/3.5 + Sigma 45/2.8 + Sigma 90/2.8
I notice a very slight color difference between the CV and Sigma but only if comparing side by side and both meet my needs. My CV is great at full infinity stop. I like the 1:2 close-up capability of the Sigma. Once I have stopped for the day, I wander around looking for close-up stuff to take pictures of.
offtraildog wrote:
Nice clear skies. I am about the same latitude as Cascades NP and nights are in the 20s but no snow yet in GNP.
I now have a similar kit for backpacking .. Either CV21/3.5 or Sigma 24/3.5 + Sigma 45/2.8 + Sigma 90/2.8
I notice a very slight color difference between the CV and Sigma but only if comparing side by side and both meet my needs. My CV is great at full infinity stop. I like the 1:2 close-up capability of the Sigma. Once I have stopped for the day, I wander around looking for close-up stuff to take pictures of.
...Show more →
Yes, my CV is also spot on at infinity AND just a hair less than infinity, which I sometimes do to help get closer in stuff just a tad more in focus. I really like just cranking the lens to the infinity stop and knowing the distant objects will be tack sharp!
Can do that with my 40G Sony nor 90/2.8i Sigma .
A week at the coast mentally prepping for winter here at home.
A7c+Tam70-300 OBX51 by MedicineMan4040, on Flickr
Sunset from the front yard here at home.
A7c+28-60 kit Sunset here at home by MedicineMan4040, on Flickr
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