p.49 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chez wrote:
Well pot calling kettle black here...talk about derogatory remarks.
As far as people here thinking they know more about the photography market than Sony...I still stand by what I said.
Some people have a specific language and sometimes I have to answer people with their own language culture otherwise they don't understand it. You cannot equalize me with yourself. Insult is the logic of your brain. If you don't like what other people say, you don't argue with them; you resort to insulting them. I on the other hand, only insult in response to an insult. We have fundamentally different approaches to the same issue.
There is no reason to think there are no one here who understand the market. I may be one of them or I may not be but in either case, I am entitled to my personal analysis and opinion on the matter. You on the other hand, think whatever decision Sony makes must be God given and no one must dare to question or criticize them. You thought I deserved to be insulted because I am questioning their marketing decision. You are obviously confusing Sony with Gods. Anyway, I don't really care what you think.
p.49 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
DavidBM wrote:
What surprises me is that so many people who clearly were never in the market for something like this are so upset by it.
every time a small bodied camera comes out a huge number of people start complaining that it is not a giant pro camera with built in grip and every possible feature crammed into it. people want what they want and can't imagine other people having different preferences.
p.49 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I don’t know that they necessarily can’t imagine other people having different preferences. But these products aren’t released in vacuums. It will affect the company’s other offerings, pricing, etc.
For example, I’m excited by features put into the top end cameras because I’m hopeful they trickle down in some form to the potential A7IV. So even though I’m not the target for the SIII, I’d have been disappointed if it did not include a touch screen.
sebboh wrote:
every time a small bodied camera comes out a huge number of people start complaining that it is not a giant pro camera with built in grip and every possible feature crammed into it. people want what they want and can't imagine other people having different preferences.
p.49 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I am fine with it, I could even do 18 megapixels, or the original a7 series battery. I have other preferences like a higher res s sensor, a joystick or more buttons, but like Sebboh said, I’m not expecting this to be a pro camera and won’t hold it to that level.
The price and the size and ergo compromises I am fine with. The only thing that really blows is how bad that EVF is. I would have pre-ordered if it was even at the original a 7x series, or like an RX1r2 but fixed.
p.49 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I am a hobbyist. Here is my take on this model. I'm sure that number of hobbyists using Sony cameras is much greater than pros and vlogers put together. Ten years ago I was thrilled with NEX-3 14MP camera because it was so small and powerfull. I'm sure pros laughed at it, but I loved it and stayed with e-mount for all these years with tens of thousands I spent for new cameras and lenses.
I think that Sony are doing it again and trying to attract new buyers with small and capable camera. Pros and people like me who already are firmly into Sony camp are not intended target group in my opinion.
p.49 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
I am fine with it, I could even do 18 megapixels, or the original a7 series battery. I have other preferences like a higher res s sensor, a joystick or more buttons, but like Sebboh said, I’m not expecting this to be a pro camera and won’t hold it to that level.
The price and the size and ergo compromises I am fine with. The only thing that really blows is how bad that EVF is. I would have pre-ordered if it was even at the original a 7x series, or like an RX1r2 but fixed.
yeah, my big beefs with it (given that i've never actually used it) are the viewfinder and the swivel out LCD (rather than tilt up). i won't preorder because I never do, but i will probably buy one as soon as i can try out the viewfinder in person. the release of this camera is the only thing keeping me with sony rather than switching to nikon when i get my next camera. i like nikon ergonomics and files a little better and all the other sony cameras have been getting more and more bloated to the point that there is no size advantage over the competition, which was the reason i went with sony to begin with. i have been sticking with my a7 classic long past its expiration date to avoid the size increase.
p.49 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
RayinNY wrote:
You kidding? You must not get out enough. You need to go on the Brooklyn Bridge, Times Sq, Brooklyn Bridge Park, Hudson River Park, Central Park....too many places. Also for food bloggers NYC is huge, that's where the size, IBIS and full frame sensor matters a lot.
Never heard of any of those places Don't get me started on "food blogging" OMG
p.49 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
sebboh wrote:
yeah, my big beefs with it (given that i've never actually used it) are the viewfinder and the swivel out LCD (rather than tilt up). i won't preorder because I never do, but i will probably buy one as soon as i can try out the viewfinder in person. the release of this camera is the only thing keeping me with sony rather than switching to nikon when i get my next camera. i like nikon ergonomics and files a little better and all the other sony cameras have been getting more and more bloated to the point that there is no size advantage over the competition, which was the reason i went with sony to begin with. i have been sticking with my a7 classic long past its expiration date to avoid the size increase....Show more →
This would have been my first pre-ordered camera ever. Now I’ll wait to try the EVF in person and decide too.
The Nikon’s are similar in size to me to Sony’s with too similar of IQ, and the few native lenses I do have aren’t available in Nikon mount, so I’ll keep Sony, though I don’t see the bodies as much different, and still IQ is so similar unless you want/need 60MP or really clean high iso (a7sx).
p.49 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
This would have been my first pre-ordered camera ever. Now I’ll wait to try the EVF in person and decide too.
The Nikon’s are similar in size to me to Sony’s with too similar of IQ, and the few native lenses I do have aren’t available in Nikon mount, so I’ll keep Sony, though I don’t see the bodies as much different, and still IQ is so similar unless you want/need 60MP or really clean high iso (a7sx).
Just go to Best buy or your local shop and look through an Rx100 vii EVF, it's the same thing.
p.49 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
samosh wrote:
I think that Sony are doing it again and trying to attract new buyers with small and capable camera. Pros and people like me who already are firmly into Sony camp are not intended target group in my opinion.
I don't understand this. Many people were attracted to Sony for the compact size and lower overall weight of the system and that's why they moved into the Sony system. Why Sony should come with a camera that is intentionally made to be small but whose intended audience is not this significant group of Sony users? As if, it would have been impossible to make a compact camera that could appeal to both vloggers and to the advanced Sony users who need or want a user interface that facilitates operating the camera. There is really no barrier in bringing all the customizable buttons and dials from A7 iii to A7c. I feel like they decided not to do it so they can charge much more for those additions later. They have even reverted back to the 4 screw mount! Is the body of the new camera poly-carbonate or metal? Any weather sealing? Top shutter speed of 1/4000s. This camera has all characteristic aspects of a mid level camera yet priced nearly at a premium level.
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p.49 #11 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nehemiahphoto wrote:
I am fine with it, I could even do 18 megapixels, or the original a7 series battery. I have other preferences like a higher res s sensor, a joystick or more buttons, but like Sebboh said, I’m not expecting this to be a pro camera and won’t hold it to that level.
The price and the size and ergo compromises I am fine with. The only thing that really blows is how bad that EVF is. I would have pre-ordered if it was even at the original a 7x series, or like an RX1r2 but fixed.
I am in complete agreement. I too have other preferences. My ideal camera would have the smaller battery of the A7 cameras, a bigger viewfinder (3.69M dots would be what I would like and .75X magnification), the joystick added back, and a 42MP sensor. I don't care about 1 card (that is fine with me), and I never used all the programmable buttons anyway.
Nevertheless, I wanted a smaller camera (and about 500g is a good size to me) and thought I would never get one, so I am happy about this offering. I am disappointed the viewfinder has so little magnification and as Jman13 has said, I would even want the camera to be a little bigger to allow that, but I have a strong preference for this form factor at least for some of my shooting. I will probably have a bigger camera as well when I don't care about size (for me shooting longer than 135mm focal lengths).
If I really don't like the viewfinder, then I won't get it, but as long as I can live with it, which I suspect I will be able to, then I will am likely to pick up this camera at some point. I won't preorder either--I always like to get the camera in my hand before I buy--but I don't expect to wait too long.
p.49 #12 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
sebboh wrote:
yeah, my big beefs with it (given that i've never actually used it) are the viewfinder and the swivel out LCD (rather than tilt up). i won't preorder because I never do, but i will probably buy one as soon as i can try out the viewfinder in person. the release of this camera is the only thing keeping me with sony rather than switching to nikon when i get my next camera. i like nikon ergonomics and files a little better and all the other sony cameras have been getting more and more bloated to the point that there is no size advantage over the competition, which was the reason i went with sony to begin with. i have been sticking with my a7 classic long past its expiration date to avoid the size increase....Show more →
I'm a bit surprised at all the negative response on this forum. It's small, light, and capable enough. One feature that I haven't seen mentioned is the ability to turn the screen FACING IN so it can be tossed in a bag or purse without trashing the screen or having to pad it. This to me would be a big point with people who want a camera on their bike, hike, glove compartment, etc. A step up from their phone.
There are a lot of people out there who aren't going to debate the quality of sun stars or mid field bokeh on a camera and lens (and will look at you as a crazy person if you do).
If this sells, we're going to get a small second (or third) camera that is light, full frame, and takes our lenses. And a new line of "v" lenses promised to be small and light. Anybody in this thread ever complained lenses getting bigger and heavier?
I'm also not offended that a "vlogger" might buy it. I don't care if carpenters buy it to use it as a framing hammer. The larger and more diverse the E mount system is, the better for me and my investment in E mount.
And if it can keep good photographers like sebboh from jumping systems, better for all of us.
Ok, covid and wildfires help me rant. Maybe smoke inhalation makes you a little crazy...
Sep 16, 2020 at 01:35 PM
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p.49 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nhsonyshooter wrote:
Just go to Best buy or your local shop and look through an Rx100 vii EVF, it's the same thing.
Nah, the pop up on EVF on that will have a different eye point and will let in stray light differently from the built-in one on the A7c. That may or may not make a difference. I want to try out this built in one before I make a decision and I don't want to be led astray by a similar but not quite the same EVF on a different camera.
p.49 #14 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I wonder how usable the small EVF will be for manual lenses? I could probably get by with the back screen most other times, but with my CV40 I almost exclusively have to use the viewfinder to hit focus. Something tells me manual lenses like this won't be nearly as usable with the A7c (at least for moving/off-tripod shooting).
p.49 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Steve Spencer wrote:
Nah, the pop up on EVF on that will have a different eye point and will let in stray light differently from the built-in one on the A7c. That may or may not make a difference. I want to try out this built in one before I make a decision and I don't want to be led astray by a similar but not quite the same EVF on a different camera.
So predictable Go for it!
Sep 16, 2020 at 02:26 PM
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p.49 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nhsonyshooter wrote:
So predictable Go for it!
Let's see Nehemiah outlines the thoughtful approach he is going to take in evaluating the camera. You offer a flippant and dismissive response (just go to Best Buy) that has not considered the potential drawbacks of that flippant response. I point out the drawbacks and you say it is predictable. Yeah, unfortunately that all is totally predictable .
Sep 16, 2020 at 02:31 PM
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p.49 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
grahamgibson wrote:
I wonder how usable the small EVF will be for manual lenses? I could probably get by with the back screen most other times, but with my CV40 I almost exclusively have to use the viewfinder to hit focus. Something tells me manual lenses like this won't be nearly as usable with the A7c (at least for moving/off-tripod shooting).
That is a really good question and exactly the sort of thing I want to see when I try out the camera.
p.49 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Steve Spencer wrote:
Let's see Nehemiah outlines the thoughtful approach he is going to take in evaluating the camera. You offer a flippant and dismissive response (just go to Best Buy) that has not considered the potential drawbacks of that flippant response. I point out the drawbacks and you say it is predictable. Yeah, unfortunately that all is totally predictable .
I love Psychologists They think they know what everyone is thinking all the time. My answer to his question was a simple one. Certainly not flippant and dismissive. I just didn't know if he was aware it's the same EVF. Unlike your approach where you have to write a novel anytime you respond. I tried to keep it simple and short. The predictable part was you replying to my comment. Starting off with Nah and ending with "it may or may not make a difference". Your the best
Sep 16, 2020 at 02:45 PM
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p.49 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nhsonyshooter wrote:
I love Psychologists They think they know what everyone is thinking all the time. My answer to his question was a simple one. Certainly not flippant and dismissive. I just didn't know if he was aware it's the same EVF. Unlike your approach where you have to write a novel anytime you respond. I tried to keep it simple and short. The predictable part was you replying to my comment. Starting off with Nah and ending with "it may or may not make a difference". Your the best
Well, you don't know me or what I was thinking and I never claimed to know you or what you were thinking. The response, "go to Best Buy," sounds flippant and dismissive. It also is wrong that it is the same EVF for the reasons I outlined. What is not surprising is your sarcasm in dissing me by saying you "love" people in my profession and that I am "the best." You may not make long posts but you take plenty of opportunities to make that sort of sarcastic pot shot.
p.49 #20 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
grahamgibson wrote:
I wonder how usable the small EVF will be for manual lenses? I could probably get by with the back screen most other times, but with my CV40 I almost exclusively have to use the viewfinder to hit focus. Something tells me manual lenses like this won't be nearly as usable with the A7c (at least for moving/off-tripod shooting).
Focusing with a 2.36-dot EVF would be perfectly fine and precise if you use focus magnification + peaking. - Remember, we used them in the past (some still do) and were happy with it. However, with the A7R IV's EVF res. (5.76-dot), I can actually turn off peaking all together, since magnification alone allows me to discern high frequency detail.
Compared to the A7R IV, the only drawback I see from the EVF's lower magnification (0.59x vs 0.78x) is that the overall picture in the frame will appear more distant -- less immersive.
Imagine you are in the movie theater and you sit a bit further away. Probably not scientific correct, so don't quote me on this.
My point is that it should not impact manual focus capability and accuracy. It's just now ideal for those spoiled by better technology and a larger view.
Don't get me started on "food blogging" OMG
However, with the A7R IV's EVF res. (5.76-dot), I can actually turn off peaking all together, since magnification alone allows me to discern high frequency detail.