p.29 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
WestTexas Sky wrote:
Wanting a small, compact and lightweight full frame camera does not mean a phone or RX100.
If you are happy with A7III size weight that is great. Not everyone wants something that bulky though. It is possible to make a small lightweight full frame but with feature bloat has made this bigger than it could or should be.
There is a market for small.
Yes. You stylistically cannot create the look of a wide angle fast aperture lens on a compact camera or phone. And yes I'm aware of the faux bokeh modes on multi camera phones...have tried so many iterations in my wife's iphones and my galaxy phones and they look awful most of the time.
p.29 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Mystik wrote:
This image on SAR pretty much sums up why the a7c is appealing to me. Yes the ergonomics are not the best, and yes it gives up some control wheels and custom buttons, and yes the size differences diminish when you use larger lenses.
All of that is besides the point of the camera though.
When paired with a compact prime and used in less critical shooting situations, the ability to easily slip the camera in a bag and just generally integrate photography into your day to day lifestyle is what the camera is all about. Getting rid of the hump and trimming down the grip is a pretty big deal in terms of packing a camera. If this is not a priority to you, treat it the way I treat it the a7sIII and move along.
If you are going to carry a bag that size, you can easily fit an A7R with a compact lens. They go for about $500 these days so you can pick up a mittful of lenses and the A7R just for the price of the A7c.
So far I'm not seeing anything in the A7c that would entice me to replace the A7R. Maybe something unique will be unveiled tomorrow.
p.29 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Mystik wrote:
This image on SAR pretty much sums up why the a7c is appealing to me. Yes the ergonomics are not the best, and yes it gives up some control wheels and custom buttons, and yes the size differences diminish when you use larger lenses.
All of that is besides the point of the camera though.
When paired with a compact prime and used in less critical shooting situations, the ability to easily slip the camera in a bag and just generally integrate photography into your day to day lifestyle is what the camera is all about. Getting rid of the hump and trimming down the grip is a pretty big deal in terms of packing a camera. If this is not a priority to you, treat it the way I treat it the a7sIII and move along.
Hahaha the man bag IS my style, though. I mean, not quite as swish...mine is a beaten up Domke F-803, which looks to be a bit smaller. I have carried either an A7R or A7RII in there for 6 years or so. Since I hit the streets to do, well, everything with my 'man purse', it can hold, depending on what I'm doing, my camera and lens plus a water bottle, sunglasses case, maybe a pair of socks, a small towel, an extra lens, etc. etc. Again, depends on the day. There's not a huge advantage to cutting off the hump because of how the camera fits in my bag, but realistically I could get my sunglasses case down that side without forcing it. A small victory but a victory none-the-less.
p.29 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Mystik wrote:
This image on SAR pretty much sums up why the a7c is appealing to me. Yes the ergonomics are not the best, and yes it gives up some control wheels and custom buttons, and yes the size differences diminish when you use larger lenses.
All of that is besides the point of the camera though.
When paired with a compact prime and used in less critical shooting situations, the ability to easily slip the camera in a bag and just generally integrate photography into your day to day lifestyle is what the camera is all about. Getting rid of the hump and trimming down the grip is a pretty big deal in terms of packing a camera. If this is not a priority to you, treat it the way I treat it the a7sIII and move along.
p.29 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
This camera puts videographers first. Photographers don't need an update with how good sensors are nowadays. If you don't need this there is the A7R. There are better options for them and they shouldn't be whining about this one.
p.29 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
mawz wrote:
I've got to admit, the A7R is on my radar as a cheap option for MF glass that's compact & light. I do love that 36MP sensor.
If you have a A7r than fine and this will build up a complete dust storm but I would not buy one. I know cheap and handy but it's got real issues no one brings up or talks about and I have tested this cam big time but shutter shock is a big issue and if you go vertical even worse. Going to MF lens won't help either. I mean I sold my whole Nikon kit for it but today given 3 newer versions that have fixed a lot of issues including new batteries and major AF upgrades. I know what's coming here the Avenger of all time to defend it. I have nothing against it and it can produce some great images but do you really want what 8 year old technology and there will never be a firmware fix ever to update it. Your money I really don't care how you spend it but worse case here drop to 24mpx get the A7III or even the A7rII at 42 as it's a much better camera functionality wise and can actually be fast a AF machine. The A7r is a real challenge there. The A7III I use on really big runway jobs like 20 thousand images and it performs really well. Now the shit storm is coming. But I would not buy it in today's world even if all you do is landscape you still have shutter shock and you will no question hit those shutter speeds where it is a issue. You may want to look back on that and listen/ read those test. I'm not a Sony fan boy by any stretch but I buy everything they have too
BTW there are a lot of drawbacks but I'm not here to destroy anything. I loved it but could not wait to replace it. I even pre ordered it's replacement. Do your homework outside the fan boy club and read first. I personally never go backwards on gear but I'm making money too on gear shooting it.
Not sure this new cam is the answer but for some it certainly will be. I'm waiting on specs but custom function buttons are important to me. I view this as a travel cam for myself but it certainly is interesting. Good luck
p.29 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
GMPhotography wrote:
If you have a A7r than fine and this will build up a complete dust storm but I would not buy one. I know cheap and handy but it's got real issues no one brings up or talks about and I have tested this cam big time but shutter shock is a big issue and if you go vertical even worse. Going to MF lens won't help either. I mean I sold my whole Nikon kit for it but today given 3 newer versions that have fixed a lot of issues including new batteries and major AF upgrades. I know what's coming here the Avenger of all time to defend it. I have nothing against it and it can produce some great images but do you really want what 8 year old technology and there will never be a firmware fix ever to update it. Your money I really don't care how you spend it but worse case here drop to 24mpx get the A7III or even the A7rII at 42 as it's a much better camera functionality wise and can actually be fast a AF machine. The A7r is a real challenge there. The A7III I use on really big runway jobs like 20 thousand images and it performs really well. Now the shit storm is coming. But I would not buy it in today's world even if all you do is landscape you still have shutter shock and you will no question hit those shutter speeds where it is a issue. You may want to look back on that and listen/ read those test. I'm not a Sony fan boy by any stretch but I buy everything they have too
BTW there are a lot of drawbacks but I'm not here to destroy anything. I loved it but could not wait to replace it. I even pre ordered it's replacement. Do your homework outside the fan boy club and read first. I personally never go backwards on gear but I'm making money too on gear shooting it.
Not sure this new cam is the answer but for some it certainly will be. I'm waiting on specs but custom function buttons are important to me. I view this as a travel cam for myself but it certainly is interesting. Good luck
Guy is right about shutter shock. It is an issue, a 'thing' and if you look at images critically, you'll see it. I have found, strangely, that hand holding mitigates but does not eliminate shutter shock. On a tripod, in the 'red zone' of shutter speeds, I couldn't avoid it. Since I'm mostly shooting hand held or exposures of 30+ seconds, it wasn't and isn't a huge detriment to my images. But it was maddening at first before I understood what was going on. Also, hand held, shutter shock is inconsistent. I can take two images at the same settings with the same technique a minute apart and one will have it and the other won't. Frustrating!
I bought a new A7RII for a great deal and it gets 90% of my use. I love the images from my A7R, most of the time, but it is a camera of compromises and caveats, it's not an effortless image creator. I think the new Sony's are. I keep the A7R because, well, it's paid for and I like the size and form factor. I love the sensor in it too...but I personally wouldn't rely on it to 'deliver' if I were a pro.
p.29 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I've been looking for this kind of camera a long time ago. When I sold my XT2 and XE3, part of me knew I was going to miss the size (the pocket factor). Lately I've been trying the Leica M10 (ultra expensive but still highly desirable) and thinking about the X100V or even the Xpro 3. Sony's move is nice imho: they aren't the best from a design standpoint, but on the other hand they have the tech part on their side and the lens line up more than well covered. Besides, the combination of the A7C and MF lenses like the loxias and voigtlanders makes me feel that this is going to be a huge gain for sony users.
p.29 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chez wrote:
If you are going to carry a bag that size, you can easily fit an A7R with a compact lens. They go for about $500 these days so you can pick up a mittful of lenses and the A7R just for the price of the A7c.
So far I'm not seeing anything in the A7c that would entice me to replace the A7R. Maybe something unique will be unveiled tomorrow.
My bags usually aren't that big..I keep them as small as possible. Plus the bags I carry tend to have other crap in them....ipad or laptop, nintendo switch, headphones, camera...etc etc.
a7r really was a nice camera to carry, but its still has the hump, and getting rid of the hump goes a long way when packing the camera away. Plus lets be real, the a7r was great at the time, but there are a lot of useful improvements that'd be nice for even casual shooting.
PDAF for one lol. But also continuous eye-AF...IBIS....no shutter shock...just faster speeds overall. The original a7r took forever to turn on.
p.29 #11 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I also have an A7r since launch and today it wouldn't be my first choice for anything although it still has very nice IQ with the right lenses. It has a loud shutter (and yes, need to be more careful with shutter speeds), lot of color shading with challenging RF glass, no IBIS, sluggishness, shutter lag, loose mount, the old style battery etc. Certainly a7c could have a lot of advantages in many of those areas, although it will cost more. I'm now using A9 as my main Sony camera for MF and AF. It works well for both but for walk-around use I would prefer a smaller and lighter camera, and one with better DR at low ISOs. If I get A7c I would probably keep using my A9 for more AF oriented purposes, event shooting etc. and A7c for casual walk-around shooting with small lenses (which is what I mostly do these days with all the restrictions in place).
If I already had an A7III there might be less reasons to get an A7c but I think it could complement A9 quite nicely.
p.29 #12 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
GMPhotography wrote:
If you have a A7r than fine and this will build up a complete dust storm but I would not buy one. I know cheap and handy but it's got real issues no one brings up or talks about and I have tested this cam big time but shutter shock is a big issue and if you go vertical even worse. Going to MF lens won't help either. I mean I sold my whole Nikon kit for it but today given 3 newer versions that have fixed a lot of issues including new batteries and major AF upgrades. I know what's coming here the Avenger of all time to defend it. I have nothing against it and it can produce some great images but do you really want what 8 year old technology and there will never be a firmware fix ever to update it. Your money I really don't care how you spend it but worse case here drop to 24mpx get the A7III or even the A7rII at 42 as it's a much better camera functionality wise and can actually be fast a AF machine. The A7r is a real challenge there. The A7III I use on really big runway jobs like 20 thousand images and it performs really well. Now the shit storm is coming. But I would not buy it in today's world even if all you do is landscape you still have shutter shock and you will no question hit those shutter speeds where it is a issue. You may want to look back on that and listen/ read those test. I'm not a Sony fan boy by any stretch but I buy everything they have too
BTW there are a lot of drawbacks but I'm not here to destroy anything. I loved it but could not wait to replace it. I even pre ordered it's replacement. Do your homework outside the fan boy club and read first. I personally never go backwards on gear but I'm making money too on gear shooting it.
Not sure this new cam is the answer but for some it certainly will be. I'm waiting on specs but custom function buttons are important to me. I view this as a travel cam for myself but it certainly is interesting. Good luck
I can echo this...and back it up via the B&S boards this year where I bought and subsequently sold a really clean A7R I was using as a backup to my A7R3. Yes, I loved the form-factor, and combined with my (well, Guy's old) CV 21 3.5, it made for such an appealing package that fit great in my bag. But the items mentioned above are true, and as it'd be used primarily for travel having 2 different batteries/chargers was a pain. Also- at least for me at times it was going to be used with a fast AF prime to supplement another AF lens, and the difference in functionality was too long of a bridge for me to want to cross.
I wonder what kind of results one would get if they took a current A73 and compared it against the A7R, and used something like Gigapixel AI to enhance the 24mp resolution up to 36mp?
p.29 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
gocolts wrote:
I wonder what kind of results one would get if they took a current A73 and compared it against the A7R, and used something like Gigapixel AI to enhance the 24mp resolution up to 36mp?
That would depend a lot on whether the A7R image was or was not affected by shutter shock.
p.29 #14 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
If autofocus, battery life or operation speed are any importance - as they usually are - any new camera will give much better results than mk1 generation A7r
gocolts wrote:
I wonder what kind of results one would get if they took a current A73 and compared it against the A7R, and used something like Gigapixel AI to enhance the 24mp resolution up to 36mp?
p.29 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
gocolts wrote:
I can echo this...and back it up via the B&S boards this year where I bought and subsequently sold a really clean A7R I was using as a backup to my A7R3. Yes, I loved the form-factor, and combined with my (well, Guy's old) CV 21 3.5, it made for such an appealing package that fit great in my bag. But the items mentioned above are true, and as it'd be used primarily for travel having 2 different batteries/chargers was a pain. Also- at least for me at times it was going to be used with a fast AF prime to supplement another AF lens, and the difference in functionality was too long of a bridge for me to want to cross.
I wonder what kind of results one would get if they took a current A73 and compared it against the A7R, and used something like Gigapixel AI to enhance the 24mp resolution up to 36mp?
There are ways to upscale a 24mpx image to 36 prety easy . I know I can increase my output file in C1 150 percent and the results are quite good. WE always have to take this stuff into what is the end use. Dont go by me , I get screwed at this as clients do weird things. But if the max you may go is a 16x20 print you can get away with almost anything . Its when you start hitting the 20x30 inch stuff than you may have to play these resolution increases.
If you folks have a chance try it to one of your files in C1 or even LR ask Fred on LR as I dont use it but you can certainly increase the resolution to a point your not making the file worse. Obviously qt some point you will hit the wall but try figuring out when that happens.
p.29 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Again im not trying to kill the A7r its a nice machine but I think overall you can get better with these newer versions. I did like the camera and files but operational wise it had its issues.
p.29 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I’ve tried them all (for stills) and now my A7R IV is my all around camera-with a battery grip. My macro compact is the A7r IV with a “pinky plate.” The A7c is the same size but W/O the VF bulge. My with-me-mostly camera is a RX100 V. My alway-with-me is a tri-camera iPhone Pro Max.
With the Auto DR, low light processing, 3 lenses/cameras and utility of my Pro Max a Leica Q2 or R1Xr II makes little sense to me because, for me, a single lens is too limiting. True for $5K the QII’s 42mP can be cropped but it's not a shirt or vest pocket camera and with compromised DR and low light performance (compared to my A7r IV) it’s just too much for too little.
p.29 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
GMPhotography wrote:
Again im not trying to kill the A7r its a nice machine but I think overall you can get better with these newer versions. I did like the camera and files but operational wise it had its issues.
The original A7R shutter sound was pretty loud compared to today's mirrorless cameras but I got used to it when I had it. We didn't care to be guinea pigs because we wanted the first full frame mirrorless with a superb sensor. At that time that kind of sensor IQ was only available on the Nikon D800 series cameras.
Shutter shock was definitely an issue and it seemed to happen at the exact moment when the shutter closes before reopening to start the exposure.
When carefully inspecting my files at 100% magnification, the vibration blur was noticeable above 100mm from 1/30s until the 1/125s shutter speed range. The blur was very subtle but was definitely there. I didn't detect noticeable vibration when shooting with focal lengths shorter than 100mm. There were ways to avoid the shutter shock but I agree it was one of the main issues with that camera.
p.29 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Thanks for your memory Fred. I had a lot of issues on vertical shots on just about any lens. But I agree it was the first 36mpx Sony with the bells and whistles and I jumped all in. Than could not wait for the update.
Seriously I know its a push money wise for a lot of folks and you shake your head why you think you may not need it but the dang A7RIV is like bliss to me. Maybe the best cam I ever shot at that includes the Medium Format stuff I had not film folks digital at tons of money. The Sonys are just more versatile
p.29 #20 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
GMPhotography wrote:
If you have a A7r than fine and this will build up a complete dust storm but I would not buy one. I know cheap and handy but it's got real issues no one brings up or talks about and I have tested this cam big time but shutter shock is a big issue and if you go vertical even worse. Going to MF lens won't help either. I mean I sold my whole Nikon kit for it but today given 3 newer versions that have fixed a lot of issues including new batteries and major AF upgrades. I know what's coming here the Avenger of all time to defend it. I have nothing against it and it can produce some great images but do you really want what 8 year old technology and there will never be a firmware fix ever to update it. Your money I really don't care how you spend it but worse case here drop to 24mpx get the A7III or even the A7rII at 42 as it's a much better camera functionality wise and can actually be fast a AF machine. The A7r is a real challenge there. The A7III I use on really big runway jobs like 20 thousand images and it performs really well. Now the shit storm is coming. But I would not buy it in today's world even if all you do is landscape you still have shutter shock and you will no question hit those shutter speeds where it is a issue. You may want to look back on that and listen/ read those test. I'm not a Sony fan boy by any stretch but I buy everything they have too
BTW there are a lot of drawbacks but I'm not here to destroy anything. I loved it but could not wait to replace it. I even pre ordered it's replacement. Do your homework outside the fan boy club and read first. I personally never go backwards on gear but I'm making money too on gear shooting it.
Not sure this new cam is the answer but for some it certainly will be. I'm waiting on specs but custom function buttons are important to me. I view this as a travel cam for myself but it certainly is interesting. Good luck
I want it specifically for the side, to walk around doing handheld work with mf lenses. By no means would this be a primary body for me.
There are a lot of drawbacks to it, but there simply are no other bodies out there in its size/weight class which can deliver a similar sensor performance
