p.13 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Jeff Kott wrote:
This is a great way for Sony to differentiate itself from the me too offerings of Nikon, Canon and Panasonic. There is a segment of the market that is always looking for the highest IQ in the most compact kit. I count myself in that segment.
My thinking as well. The new Panasonic S5 is 715g, and it’s smaller than their other offerings. I was excited when I heard about the rumored Z5, but it’s just lower spec’ed FF Z line in the same body. Immediate meh from my end.
I always appreciate Fuji’s approach of making xe, xt, and x-pro body types as a way to differentiate even though sensors are the same (and maybe that’s why they offer the body variety).
p.13 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
DavidBM wrote:
The problem with shoving an a6600 into an A73 body is that the development costs mean, unless there were huge sales, it would be a more expensive option than just using an A7r4. I know you’d be giving up a little speed and resolution, but not lots.
Honestly, I’d expect it to outsell the A6600 if priced correctly. There’s no way it would be more expensive than an A7RIV, try a bit more than the A6600.
And the development costs would be minimal, most of the engineering is already done. I’d bet that most of the A7III and/or A6600 internals would be usable, the mirror box, sensor interface and ibis unit mount & shutter mount would be what needed updating. Sony’s got just about everything they need already in the parts bin aside from the bits needed to connect everything.
p.13 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
mawz wrote:
Honestly, I’d expect it to outsell the A6600 if priced correctly. There’s no way it would be more expensive than an A7RIV, try a bit more than the A6600.
And the development costs would be minimal, most of the engineering is already done. I’d bet that most of the A7III and/or A6600 internals would be usable, the mirror box, sensor interface and ibis unit mount & shutter mount would be what needed updating. Sony’s got just about everything they need already in the parts bin aside from the bits needed to connect everything.
p.13 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
mawz wrote:
Honestly, I’d expect it to outsell the A6600 if priced correctly. There’s no way it would be more expensive than an A7RIV, try a bit more than the A6600.
And the development costs would be minimal, most of the engineering is already done. I’d bet that most of the A7III and/or A6600 internals would be usable, the mirror box, sensor interface and ibis unit mount & shutter mount would be what needed updating. Sony’s got just about everything they need already in the parts bin aside from the bits needed to connect everything.
Well it all depends on the sales, you are more optimistic than me, but there's no point us discussing that much because, really, who knows.
But in terms of the unit costs, I do think that it's unlikely the cost per unit of this new body would be lower than the *marginal* cost of making new R4 bodies.
Why? Well the only thing that is more expensive about the r4 in terms of construction costs, really, is the sensor. Sure that's a bit ,more pricey (but even then, is the marginal cost to Sony of more of them that much more? That depends on all kinds of things, like the yield, and whether they have an undersupply, and so on)
So the question becomes whether the extra sensor cost exceeds the cost of setting up new lines, putting all those elements together, testing them, changing the way the sensor interfaces with the body. Of course Sony is very modular within a generation with their designs, so it's not the price it would be if you were designing it all from scratch. But playing with the parts box, as it were, is not that cheap either compared with producing some more of an existing model.
Of course the r4 might be too expensive in terms of current price to consumer to play the role you want. Maybe Sony could take some off the production line, add an extra stage where they are crippled a bit, and sell those for a bit less as flagship APS-FF hybrid cameras!
p.13 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Sony has a rich and long history of trying to sell a range of variant cameras, going back to the aughts. Here, the resolution and especially the lenses will tell all - what they intend as the target audience. A new *series* of lenses, like a range? The V range. And would you like the standard black or the silver top? It all seems to imply something fundamentally different, but ordinary specs thus far. And a pancake zoom, ye gods. There is a lot missing.
p.13 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Jeff Kott wrote:
There is a segment of the market that is always looking for the highest IQ in the most compact kit. I count myself in that segment.
I also count myself in that segment, and it is good to see that there are more of us in here.
For me, resolution is an important factor of image quality. For this reason, this new "small" form factor FF trend fails big time. Nobody puts their highest, or even next highest resolution sensor in any of these new "small" cameras anymore. As for size and weight, the Lumix S5 also fails big time, it is a heavy monster compared to the A7r.
Don't think for a second either, that the new line of smaller lenses will offer the highest image quality even stopped down to f/8. Another reason why they won't bother with a higher resolution sensor in the A7C.
Guess what, the sweet spot for high image quality at small size for me now is the Canon M6II with the 11-22 lens. Rather 32 MP APS-C than 24 MP Full frame, for resolution, when the lenses are that good. And it is a light dwarf even compared to the A7r with any WA zoom on it (although I still consider the A7r to be the king of IQ/size for the camera alone)
p.13 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
mawz wrote:
Exactly what I was trying to say above.
Conversely, Fuji has the same issue for over 90/100mm, very few options. Sony's actually stronger for the long lenses than Fuji is for the UWA's. Of course there's only one APS-C body across both systems that really handles well with larger telephoto lenses, and that's the now discontinued X-H1 (this is the main reason I say Sony needs to just shove an A6600 into an A7III body and sell it as the A7000. The A6600 has everything it needs internally to be a flagship APS-C model, it is only lacking on externalities like dual slots outside the battery compartment and handling with large lenses and the A7III body delivers all of that)...Show more →
Personally, I would like to see an A7000 with 30 some mp and 15 FPS in an A7RIV body. My A7RIV Already has 26 mp in crop mode. The specs of the A 6600 is not that exciting compared to other Sony a6xxxx offerings, basically the same sensor. I would think people who want an aps-c sensor in a bigger body are most likely the wildlife crowds, using those big telephoto lenses on the a6xxxx body is a bit awkward. There’s a big market for a sports/wildlife oriented APS-C body, judging by how popular the canon 7D and the Nikon D500 are. Personally I have owned the a6000; a 6300: a6500, a6400, all for a short period of time. The lack of that extra exposure dial bothered me a lot.
p.13 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
The latest news of having a silver version and NOT having a popup EVF just made me a lot more interested about this camera. As they have stated; this will be whole new camera which makes me hope it might even be a new "classier" design, not the boring A6xxx form factor. Wishful thinking, I know. (I just miss my earlier Fujis on that department.)
I just hope it has better EVF than the A7III series. That alone could be reason enough for me to update from A7III, since I like to shoot mainly manual Voigtländer glass and having a detailed EVF would help a lot.
p.13 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
mawz wrote:
Honestly, I’d expect it to outsell the A6600 if priced correctly. There’s no way it would be more expensive than an A7RIV, try a bit more than the A6600.
And the development costs would be minimal, most of the engineering is already done. I’d bet that most of the A7III and/or A6600 internals would be usable, the mirror box, sensor interface and ibis unit mount & shutter mount would be what needed updating. Sony’s got just about everything they need already in the parts bin aside from the bits needed to connect everything.
I think there is a lot of engineering to be done for a quality compact full frame, as we are hoping the A7C will be. Getting the sensor, the processing electronics, upgraded video electronics, upgraded connectivity electronics, the AF electronics, the heat dissipation management, a good EVF, and especially IBIS into a very small space is an engineering tour-de-force. No one has done this before, if it is what we are hoping it will be.
I don't want this camera to be cheaper than the A73 because I want it to be a high quality 7 series full frame in a smaller body. That reasonably should cost more.
p.13 #11 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chiron wrote:
I think there is a lot of engineering to be done for a quality compact full frame, as we are hoping the A7C will be. Getting the sensor, the processing electronics, upgraded video electronics, upgraded connectivity electronics, the AF electronics, the heat dissipation management, a good EVF, and especially IBIS into a very small space is an engineering tour-de-force. No one has done this before, if it is what we are hoping it will be.
I don't want this camera to be cheaper than the A73 because I want it to be a high quality 7 series full frame in a smaller body. That reasonably should cost more....Show more →
I'm talking about the notional A7000 here (A6600 in A7III body) here, not the A7C. I think Sony could do a minimal-change product here that would be quite successful in the market, quite possibly more so than the A6600 is.
Now I think that Sony could have done a minimal change A7C (A7III in A6600 body) and I suspect they did that for the A5 that I think they were beta testing alongside the A7C but given what we're seeing I'm expecting more along the lines of the new processor with A7III sensor in a new A6600-derived body, which will have significant development requirements.
p.13 #12 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
last details about the camera are a relief for me, at least it isn't exactly the a6600 chassis, and pricing is not bad, 2300 euros is the body only a7III at launch
in the end it'll be a middle ground, not a high end compact like many wanted, nor the super basic and cheap entry level body as rumored first
p.13 #14 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I sure hope this is very successful so there will be follow on cameras with higher MP sensors. I love the idea, but won't buy into the concept until they have a body with at least 42 MP. I can't see taking a step backwards from my A7riii.
p.13 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
The fact that the rumor suggests it a "new line" of camera is promising of an "R" version in the future, which would be optimal for my uses of it as a travel/landscape camera.
p.13 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
not sure how compact lens it can be. IMO the sony 20g, fe35, 55za, all these 1.5 primes are already light and compact enough. i just bought fore-mentioned 3 and fe FE85 for video purposes, better than 35za , 24gm, 85gm for gimble works.
p.13 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
It's fun to engage in these 'building a perfect camera' threads, even if the camera as (wishfully) specified never comes to market. I have a feeling that this will be a lower end release that won't meet most of the average FM members' requirements.
SR thinks that this is coming largely spec'd like an A7III. The statement that it's a beautiful camera is promising, and if this is the beginning of a new line of cameras with, perhaps, an 'R' level sensor in the future, that's excellent. Someone mentioned earlier that they liked Fuji's approach, giving the same sensor in three distinct body styles and types. I'm a fan as well...I'd love to be able to choose a similar sensor in a different form factor.
So, no matter how the first 'C' camera comes, specs-wise, I'm excited that it might bring further development and genuine choice in the future. If the rumoured new lens line is not simply a consumer budget offering (pancake zoom - ugh) but offers weight savings and good optical performance, I'm in.
p.13 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
The Sony ecosystem already offers plenty of high-res, compact lenses suitable for the landscape crowd, that is many of the various CV and all of the Loxia lenses.
