p.12 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
nhsonyshooter wrote:
Also will be interesting to see what they do with the EVF. The Z5 at least has the A9 EVF ,while the S5 has the A7iii. I hope they don't cheap out and keep the same A7iii EVF. That could be a deal breaker for me. 2.3 million doesn't cut it in 2020 in my opinion.
It would be interesting to see which one they will use. Currently Sony offers EVF with the following resolution:
p.12 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Fred Miranda wrote:
It would be interesting to see which one they will use. Currently Sony offers EVF with the following resolution:
2.36m-dot
3.68m-dot
5.76m-dot
9.44m-dot
And 1.44m-dot in the A6100 (yes, they're still passing off that ancient panel on consumers, for far higher cost than competition with the 2.36MP panels)
p.12 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I remember in the interview the Sony rep. tone was quite happy talking about this new camera, and he claim there's a brand new sensor.
"Right now we’re focused on the launch of the new camera, and it will be a complete redesign of the whole system, including the image sensor. Everything is new. We hope it will meet and exceed the expectations and requests of our customers. I’m very confident that our new model will meet their demands."
p.12 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
knshshnk wrote:
I remember in the interview the Sony rep. tone was quite happy talking about this new camera, and he claim there's a brand new sensor.
"Right now we’re focused on the launch of the new camera, and it will be a complete redesign of the whole system, including the image sensor. Everything is new. We hope it will meet and exceed the expectations and requests of our customers. I’m very confident that our new model will meet their demands."
I thought that quote was from the interview about the A7SIII...
p.12 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
mawz wrote:
For the case of AF lenses only (most of the MF lenses available for E mount are also in X mount, the Zeiss Loxia's being the main exception)
You can certainly put together a good system around primes, if you want f1.4 primes of moderate to large size. Sigma and Viltrox both deliver there.
Want smaller with moderate speed? You're SOL outside of 3 pricey lenses with decidedly mid-range performance (24/1.8, 35/1.8 OSS, 50/1.8OSS) and two of them are huge. Not exactly a usable alternative to the Fujicrons.
The 16/2.8 is a bad joke, the 20/2.8 is pretty good, but that's it for pancakes.
From 35mm on you have a lot of options from FF as well, but using FF lenses on APS-C wider than 28mm means either slow or big (but you're still doing better than Z DX guys ;-) Those f1.8 S's are huge, expensive & heavy). The Samyang 18 & 24 are small & cheap enough that they're quite viable for APS-C if you can live with f2.8, which I would say is more practical for the 18 than the 24.
The 16-55G is superb, as is the 70-350. But there's no mid-range zoom similar in quality to the 70-350, the old ZA 16-70/4 has never been a noted performer and is long past its best before date (something that most of Sony's f4 zooms share).
For long lens use, you are drowning in options. Fuji users would be doing happy dances if they had half the options past 100mm that Sony users do.
And yet they don't have a single UWA zoom suitable for the prosumer. The 10-18/4 performs on par with a Canon 10-18 STM or a Nikon 10-20 VR, but is twice the cost. It's no replacement for Fuji's 10-24/4 or 8-16/2.8. It's the UWA's where E mount falls apart as a serious system on APS-C. Sony really has a single viable AF lens available wider than 16mm, which is the Touit 12mm (and is available also in X mount). Fuji's got 4 here covering all the bases (slow but good zoom with IS, fast and extremely wide zoom, mild UWA prime, wider UWA prime)
Where there are gaps, I just use appropriate FF lenses on my 6500/6400:
100-400 +1.4x for birding on the 6400
18-135 on the 6400/6500 as a walkaround
Voigtlander 10/15 on the 6500
Loxia 21/35/50/85 on the 6500
For landscapes (my preferred subject) and wildlife, I think the 6400/6500 have superb options. And the Sigma 1.4s are great for low light photography. I'm just not seeing many relevant gaps at all, but then again I wouldn't dream of trying to use a 2.8 zoom on an APS-C camera for low light (I use 1.2/1.4/1.8 primes, or use FF with a slower 2.8 zoom). For walkaround, the 18-135 is compact and sharp.
The option to draw from my stable of FF lenses makes my Sony APS-C cameras far more useful, not to mention all the top-rate third-party options.
p.12 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
lightskyland wrote:
Where there are gaps, I just use appropriate FF lenses on my 6500/6400:
100-400 +1.4x for birding on the 6400
18-135 on the 6400/6500 as a walkaround
Voigtlander 10/15 on the 6500
Loxia 21/35/50/85 on the 6500
For landscapes (my preferred subject) and wildlife, I think the 6400/6500 have superb options. And the Sigma 1.4s are great for low light photography. I'm just not seeing many relevant gaps at all, but then again I wouldn't dream of trying to use a 2.8 zoom on an APS-C camera for low light (I use 1.2/1.4/1.8 primes, or use FF with a slower 2.8 zoom). For walkaround, the 18-135 is compact and sharp.
The option to draw from my stable of FF lenses makes my Sony APS-C cameras far more useful, not to mention all the top-rate third-party options.
None of those replace the 8-16/2.8 at all, none replace a 10-24/4 either (the 10-18/4 is not nearly of the same quality despite being the same cost, and is also lacking on reach on the long end, it needs a mid-range zoom or 18-xxx superzoom to make a full kit because of its 18mm long end). You cannot duplicate the most common 2 lens landscape kit (10-24/4+55-200) on Fuji APS-C with anything on Sony APS-C, and the gap is solely on the lack of UWA zoom options since Sony is not weak on telephoto options.
Yeah, if you're a prime guy you have options, and the MF situation is basically identical (both the CV options you note have M mount versions usable on both E and X mounts and both are basically obsoleted by better options that are native APS-C like the Laowa 9mm and Rokinon 12mm f2, also available in both mounts. the CV's are great on FF, but slow and expensive for average performance on APS-C). The Fuji experience with non-electronic lenses is also mildly better (for one thing, Fuji writes focal length to EXIF so you can actually tell which lens you used)
Under 100mm there simply is no advantage to Sony APS-C over Fuji, under 16mm Fuji is well ahead in terms of AF lenses. Between 16-100mm the playing field is mostly even thanks to Sigma and Viltrox, with the latter available in both mounts.
Sony's got good bodies, and some real strong lenses, but there's gaps in E mount's lens line you can drive a truck through and not all of those gaps can be filled by the FE line, especially at the wider end. They need to throw APS-C some love, and it wouldn't take much. 3 zooms (A G f2.8 UWA, a G f4 UWA and a G f4 normal zoom) and it's covered, and let the 3rd parties handle the primes.
p.12 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
There are Sony 16-55/2.8/G and Sigma 16/1.4 and many options above 16mm, so down to 16mm Sony APS-C is great. The challenges are below 16mm in the AF department, where there are essentially two lenses, Zeiss Touit 12/2.8 and Sony 10-18/4. Adding a 14/2.8 and a new updated wide angle zoom for Sony APS-C would do the trick for APS-C E-mount. The full frame 12-24/4 is likely overkill for APS-C and it doesn’t take screw-in filters like the 10-18/4 and Touit 12/2.8 do.
p.12 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Wishlist:
A7Cr (despite my earlier ennui about the further segmentation of Sony camera bodies).
I’d like it to be fully weather sealed. With the 9m dot evf. 61mpx.
This would become my landscape rig. It doesn’t need to have two card slots (although redundancy = good: I’m not shooting events). A smaller kit in the field is most welcome.
Then the lenses for landscape... drools....
Slower, with good manual focus haptics, pretty draw, low CAs, sharp corners and midfields, lovely sunstars, weather sealed. Basically Voigtlanders with af and a little bigger. All but maybe the zoom under 400g.
Steve Spencer wrote:
Sony has improved their cameras significantly with each generation, but with the cost of the cameras having become noticeably bigger than the first generation cameras. This gives them a chance to solidify or reclaim users who want a smaller camera. I think a A7Cr with a 42 MP sensor would make a lot of sense too.
For the lens line this gives them a chance to introduce a complete set of small lenses. I would love to see them introduce something like these 4 primes and these 4 zooms:
18 f/2.8 (pancake like less than 150g)
24 f/2.8 (pancake like less than 150g)
50 f/2 (pancake like less than 200g)
100 f/2.8 (short but probably can't be a pancake, less than 250g)
18-28 f/4 (less than 250g)
24-50 f/4 (less than 300g)
50-100 f/4 (less than 300g)
100-200 f/4.5-5.6 (less than 400g)
They of course have the 35 f/2.8 (at just over 100g) already and if people want fairly small and faster there is the 20 f/1.8G, 35 f/1.8, 55 f/1.8, and 85 f/1.8. I think with that set of lenses people could put together a small system that would be great for travel or for people who just want to keep the size of their kit very small.
It does look to me this camera is just about offering a small alternative and if the prices is if anything higher than the A7 III as rumored it won't address what is becoming the low end of the FF market (i.e., won't compete with the Canon RP or the Nikon Z5)....Show more →
p.12 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Justin Stone wrote:
Wishlist:
A7Cr (despite my earlier ennui about the further segmentation of Sony camera bodies).
I’d like it to be fully weather sealed. With the 9m dot evf. 61mpx.
This would become my landscape rig. It doesn’t need to have two card slots (although redundancy = good: I’m not shooting events). A smaller kit in the field is most welcome.
Then the lenses for landscape... drools....
Slower, with good manual focus haptics, pretty draw, low CAs, sharp corners and midfields, lovely sunstars, weather sealed. Basically Voigtlanders with af and a little bigger. All but maybe the zoom under 400g.
Instant buy for me Justin. I will pass the 24MP sensor.
Sep 02, 2020 at 09:45 PM
imagesfromobjects Offline • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.12 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I think the biggest issue is using an ultra-res sensor with no IBIS, and IBIS = bigger.
I'm loving your lens specs, though!
I'd really love to see an 18mm. I feel like that's an often overlooked focal length and it's like the Goldilocks "ultrawide" analog to the "wide" 28mm. About as wide as you can go and still be usable with human subjects and video, but wide enough so you don't lose that "oomph."
Maybe it's me, but I shoot a lot with 15mm and a lot with 21mm and want something in between.
Justin Stone wrote:
Wishlist:
A7Cr (despite my earlier ennui about the further segmentation of Sony camera bodies).
I’d like it to be fully weather sealed. With the 9m dot evf. 61mpx.
This would become my landscape rig. It doesn’t need to have two card slots (although redundancy = good: I’m not shooting events). A smaller kit in the field is most welcome.
Then the lenses for landscape... drools....
Slower, with good manual focus haptics, pretty draw, low CAs, sharp corners and midfields, lovely sunstars, weather sealed. Basically Voigtlanders with af and a little bigger. All but maybe the zoom under 400g.
p.12 #11 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Justin Stone wrote:
Wishlist:
A7Cr (despite my earlier ennui about the further segmentation of Sony camera bodies).
I’d like it to be fully weather sealed. With the 9m dot evf. 61mpx.
This would become my landscape rig. It doesn’t need to have two card slots (although redundancy = good: I’m not shooting events). A smaller kit in the field is most welcome.
Then the lenses for landscape... drools....
Slower, with good manual focus haptics, pretty draw, low CAs, sharp corners and midfields, lovely sunstars, weather sealed. Basically Voigtlanders with af and a little bigger. All but maybe the zoom under 400g.
p.12 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Fred Miranda wrote:
Instant buy for me Justin. I will pass the 24MP sensor.
This may be the first time since here at FM you guys "save" me some money
I have been waiting so long for the Rx1riii that this compact really got my gas going. But to your point the 24mp is going to be really hard to go back to from 61mp on those days I want small. Maybe I should just finally bite the bullet and repurchase the Rx1rii for those "small" days. The 35mm Sonnar is still my favorite 35 and getting that with the excellent 42mp sensor for less than this new A7c may make more sense right now. Hmmm. Glad it is not out yet!
p.12 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
bjornthun wrote:
There are Sony 16-55/2.8/G and Sigma 16/1.4 and many options above 16mm, so down to 16mm Sony APS-C is great. The challenges are below 16mm in the AF department, where there are essentially two lenses, Zeiss Touit 12/2.8 and Sony 10-18/4. Adding a 14/2.8 and a new updated wide angle zoom for Sony APS-C would do the trick for APS-C E-mount. The full frame 12-24/4 is likely overkill for APS-C and it doesn’t take screw-in filters like the 10-18/4 and Touit 12/2.8 do.
Exactly what I was trying to say above.
Conversely, Fuji has the same issue for over 90/100mm, very few options. Sony's actually stronger for the long lenses than Fuji is for the UWA's. Of course there's only one APS-C body across both systems that really handles well with larger telephoto lenses, and that's the now discontinued X-H1 (this is the main reason I say Sony needs to just shove an A6600 into an A7III body and sell it as the A7000. The A6600 has everything it needs internally to be a flagship APS-C model, it is only lacking on externalities like dual slots outside the battery compartment and handling with large lenses and the A7III body delivers all of that)
p.12 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
What if this is just the first step in a long term plan to replace the A6xx series with similarly sized cameras except FF instead of APS-C? "Hey guys, this is like Fuji except it's FF!". Quite a nice selling point.
Otherwise the logic of starting another line of (small but FF) lenses quite escapes me.
p.12 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
mawz wrote:
Exactly what I was trying to say above.
Conversely, Fuji has the same issue for over 90/100mm, very few options. Sony's actually stronger for the long lenses than Fuji is for the UWA's. Of course there's only one APS-C body across both systems that really handles well with larger telephoto lenses, and that's the now discontinued X-H1 (this is the main reason I say Sony needs to just shove an A6600 into an A7III body and sell it as the A7000. The A6600 has everything it needs internally to be a flagship APS-C model, it is only lacking on externalities like dual slots outside the battery compartment and handling with large lenses and the A7III body delivers all of that)...Show more →
The problem with shoving an a6600 into an A73 body is that the development costs mean, unless there were huge sales, it would be a more expensive option than just using an A7r4. I know you’d be giving up a little speed and resolution, but not lots.
p.12 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
This is a great way for Sony to differentiate itself from the me too offerings of Nikon, Canon and Panasonic. There is a segment of the market that is always looking for the highest IQ in the most compact kit. I count myself in that segment.
p.12 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
This is a great way for Sony to differentiate itself from the me too offerings of Nikon, Canon and Panasonic. There is a segment of the market that is always looking for the highest IQ in the most compact kit. I count myself in that segment.
p.12 #20 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
This is a great way for Sony to differentiate itself from the me too offerings of Nikon, Canon and Panasonic. There is a segment of the market that is always looking for the highest IQ in the most compact kit. I count myself in that segment.
