I’m waiting till this crap is over before I invest anymore. I got a feeling huge I mean huge discounts are coming. I don’t know how Sony or anyone else can sustain this for long. From a Pro perspective this is horrendous. Like to actually buy this lens but I’ll wait it out. Incredible hard to wait it out . I’m the worst at it. I actually can’t even spell patience. Lol
Okay I lie I did buy a new monitor. coming this week a NEC 4k Wide gamut
I initially posted some info on how corner focus of this lens varies with focal legth but after comparing two copies side by side have decided they vary too much to say much about it.
Damn you definitely have the patience to go thru 5. I probably would've given up after 3 or 4. Well I will say it is a joy to shoot at 12mm honestly. Never shot at 12mm so it's a real fun yet challenging learning curve. The lens truly shines for sunset/sunrises with that incredible flare resistance; just so darn good. I've lately been disappointed by the 24-70 offerings especially sigma with that dust building internally quick that I may stick to having primes after the 24mm focal range. Voigtlanders so far been the answer. We'll see if sony comes up with some new GM primes next year. So far with the lockdown never ending it's not a fun time to buy gear.
GMPhotography wrote:
I’m waiting till this crap is over before I invest anymore. I got a feeling huge I mean huge discounts are coming. I don’t know how Sony or anyone else can sustain this for long. From a Pro perspective this is horrendous. Like to actually buy this lens but I’ll wait it out. Incredible hard to wait it out . I’m the worst at it. I actually can’t even spell patience. Lol
Okay I lie I did buy a new monitor. coming this week a NEC 4k Wide gamut
Some lenses stay close to their original price, unfortunately. The Sony 16-35GM, for example, only marginally dropped in price in Germany and is still very expensive, even used copies sell for 2000-2200 Euros.
Now the Batis 18 gets a bit cheaper though and very good used copies are available.
I personally like the Batis line. A 15mm/f2.8 Batis with reasonable filter size would be nice. The Milvus 15/2.8 is super expensive, large and heavy. The Voiglander isn't that great optically. The Sigma zoom is fantastic, but I really dislike using those large Nisi filters.
GMPhotography wrote:
I’m waiting till this crap is over before I invest anymore. I got a feeling huge I mean huge discounts are coming. I don’t know how Sony or anyone else can sustain this for long. From a Pro perspective this is horrendous. Like to actually buy this lens but I’ll wait it out. Incredible hard to wait it out . I’m the worst at it. I actually can’t even spell patience. Lol
Okay I lie I did buy a new monitor. coming this week a NEC 4k Wide gamut
Today SAR posted a rumor, that a 16mm/1.8 GM is coming, similar in built and size to the 24 GM.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I am really hoping it's a 14 or 15mm prime but perhaps Sony chose 16mm for easy use of filters.
Agreed, 14-15 would be more useful to me too, particularly with astro in mind.
If Sony uses the same flare-resistant coatings with this prime as they did in the zoom, that might give it an advantage over the rumoured Sigma primes when shooting against the sun. But I don't have high hopes that they will use straight aperture blades, which is what would really make me pay attention.
Reading through this thread really brings to mind Roger Cicala's recent article on Sample Variation vs Bad Copy.
My guess is 99% of these "unacceptable" lenses are in fact perfectly acceptable to Sony - just not the end users.
Which is a good reason for the individual to test. But I also think it's good to test the lens how you would specifically be using it. Because one thing is guaranteed no matter the price of the lens, if you're looking for a flaw and know what you're doing - you're going to find a flaw. Or two. Or three, lol.
Roger's article is confined to center and average sharpness across the frame. And if that had been the metric I had used, indeed most of the eight GM 12-24 zooms I have tried would have passed. But that article doesn't talk about 'worst corner' sharpness. If you look at worst-corner sample variation you will see a large increase in the number of bad copies, as we noted in the thread related to that article.
My comments in the current thread about the substantial corner-sharpness sample variation with the GM are very much in line with how I shoot, rather than looking for flaws. Corner sharpness matters to me because I focus stack for sharp details everywhere in the frame, and I like to have the option to print large (I wouldn't own an A7r4 otherwise). I also shoot astro, so corner performance wide open is also relevant.
My impression comparing 8 copies of the 12-24 GM with 4 Sigma 14-24 zooms is that the Sony has larger corner-sharpness variation, even if I exclude focal lengths below 14mm. And the Sigmas I tried all cleaned up very well by f6.3, which has not been the case with the GM.
p.s. when looking at centering with the GM at its wide end, it's highly recommended to use corner focus due to field curvature.
Have you found a 'good enough' copy after trying 8 samples or are you still looking for one?
I gave up after trying just one sample which was not good enough for me and keep using the Sigma which is great.
Also, we're talking about a zoom here whereas Roger's article appears to be more concerned with primes.
I like to remind myself that the chances of getting a good 12-24 are probably no worse than randomly selecting 4 or 5 primes that cover the same range and all of them being good copies (on whatever measure is appropriate for you).
Bobu wrote:
Have you found a 'good enough' copy after trying 8 samples or are you still looking for one?
I gave up after trying just one sample which was not good enough for me and keep using the Sigma which is great.
I now have a copy that (after shimming my camera) is excellent wide open from about 14mm to 24mm. It's moderately decentered at 12mm but it cleans up nicley by f6.3, so it's fine for landscapes. And fortunately even wide open the worst corner is the lower left which is usually covered by a stopped down shot for foregound. So I think this one will be 'good enough'.
rvh23 wrote:
I now have a copy that (after shimming my camera) is excellent wide open from about 14mm to 24mm. It's moderately decentered at 12mm but it cleans up nicley by f6.3, so it's fine for landscapes. And fortunately even wide open the worst corner is the lower left which is usually covered by a stopped down shot for foregound. So I think this one will be 'good enough'.
Hmm, this is pretty scary that you went through nearly 10 copies and still had to modify your camera and still it's not perfect.
Looks like we've reached the current manufacturing process quality limits given the high resolution sensor (61MPix), i.e. we have to accept there is no perfect copy (in conjuction with one's camera) ...
Nisi Australia finally shipped my new S6 adapter for the 12-24 GM, which was previously only available with the complete kit that includes round filters and other accessories. In case you have round CPL or CPL+ND64 filters from the S5 system, I can confirm they work perfectly on the S6 adapter, as does the front round filter cap.
The rear of the adapter can be covered with a 110mm lens cap, allowing me to have the filter pre-installed in the adapter. That way I can pull the combo out of my bag and have it secured on the lens ready to shoot in literally about 10 seconds, so no slower than traditional screw on filters. Both Fujinon and Schneider make 110mm lens caps, but the Schneider seems to be pricier from my brief search, so I went with the Fujinon and it fits very securely.
The S6 adapter has been nicely improved over the S5 and now includes flocking material on the inside surface of the adapter. I hope to give it a test run for flare later today.
..I like the lens a lot - I also have the Nisi S6 Kit it works great!. The lens is a game changer for my video work (Real Estate)
Here is a image (only one exposure) edit in lightroom taken with the NISI 4 stops reverse grad.
The subject is shurly not so pleasing, but the image shows what the lens is able to. (very crisp in 100%)
j4nu wrote:
Hmm, this is pretty scary that you went through nearly 10 copies and still had to modify your camera and still it's not perfect.
Looks like we've reached the current manufacturing process quality limits given the high resolution sensor (61MPix), i.e. we have to accept there is no perfect copy (in conjuction with one's camera) ...
Given Roger's articles about flange to sensor variation a few months ago, I'm not at all surprised. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2020/06/the-great-flange-to-sensor-distance-article-part-1-cine-cameras/
After four months of lockdown I've finally been able to take this lens into the field a bit over the last week or two. Here's an image from a few days ago using the GM with the Nisi CPL+ND64 filter via an S6 adapter. I shot many frames against the sun with that combination, and didn't see a trace of flare or ghosting on any of them. Very impressive imo, and good enough that I no longer feel the need for a fall-back prime to shoot against the sun, or probably even a shade-flag for that matter.
Sony 12-24 GM @24mm F8, Nisi CPL+ND64, multi exposure.
Have you tried the new landscape polarizer Richard, and if so, any thoughts vs the standard pro one? It does seem to have a much cooler colour balance, although Nisi is arguing it has better colour balance?, and charging you $100 extra for the privilege!
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